28mm f2.8 "Nine Element". Warning: not for Leica fanboys

[Gordon Moat]

LLL is a very small company. Is the issue here that it is Chinese? Lack of originality?

I use to have a Shen Hao 4x5 which undoubtedly copied some elements of past 4x5 designs. Didn’t mind it being Chinese. Used it on many paid projects. Reliable and well made. Sold it when projects were no longer being used to make large printed outputs.

 

[Rayt]

Admittedly I never used it much with film aside from lens testing when I first got mine because I have other 28mm lenses and they don’t block the meter so just too lazy to use handheld meter. With CMOS digital cameras the 28mm v1 sees action. Here’s a few from a few years ago in Hong Kong with M10M.

Due to the symmetrical design the lines are straight into the edges. The first photo demonstrates what an excellent lens it is for that purpose. The second one is a plain street shot probably at f2.8. It’s a good lens but $9k? Mine is on my MP.

 

[Rayt]

 

[Rayt]

I have the Light Lens 50mm Cooke copy and it’s a high quality piece of work. No doubt they’ll do a good job with this one.

 

[yossi]

Complex relative to what? Have you seen what modern lenses look like? Computer controlled grinding/polishing makes crafting spherical (and aspherical) elements more accessible and precise than when the Leitz version of this lens was in production.

Complex relative to a simple one eg. a Tessar (which the Chinese had copied for a very long time.) It’s not just the number of lens elements/configuration, but also the types of glasses used.

Whether LLL could copy the original 9-E faithfully remains to be seen.

 

[Slumgullion]

Complex relative to a simple one eg. a Tessar (which the Chinese had copied for a very long time.) It’s not just the number of lens elements/configuration, but also the types of glasses used.

Whether LLL could copy the original 9-E faithfully remains to be seen.

Respectfully, It's the year 2024. The phone or desktop you're typing on was likely produced in China...as are a whole litany of insanely complex and precise items - not the least of which are optics.

They ain't just makin' Tessars anymore...

 

[yossi]

In fact I wish the Chinese companies could use their optical capabilities to make a lens as good if not better than the Leica 35mm APO Summicron one day, and price it in the same range as Leica’s.

 

[Ororaro]

In fact I wish the Chinese companies could use their optical capabilities to make a lens as good if not better than the Leica 35mm APO Summicron one day, and price it in the same range as Leica’s.

And why is this your wish, besides patriotism?

 

[yossi]

"patriotism", yeah right 🤣

 

[Ororaro]

"patriotism", yeah right 🤣

I can’t see a remotely good reason to wish for a 8500$ lens made in china “just because”.

Wishing it to be 850$, yeah. But wishing it would be priced 8500$?

 

[oldwino]

Where is this $8500 figure coming from? It’s $799 or $849 for black paint. Previous LLL lenses have been either very good or excellent.
The 28 v1 was never considered to be an amazing achievement for Leitz. I think the first really good one, in terms of smaller size and image quality, was probably the v3. I owned the v2 for a while, and liked it a lot, but it is a retro-focus design (to eliminate the protruding rear element), so it’s not a tiny lens. The v2 is excellent on digital cameras, with none of the Italian-flag issues of many older wide angle lenses.

 

[Ororaro]

Where is this $8500 figure coming from? It’s $799 or $849 for black paint. Previous LLL lenses have been either very good or excellent.
The 28 v1 was never considered to be an amazing achievement for Leitz. I think the first really good one, in terms of smaller size and image quality, was probably the v3. I owned the v2 for a while, and liked it a lot, but it is a retro-focus design (to eliminate the protruding rear element), so it’s not a tiny lens. The v2 is excellent on digital cameras, with none of the Italian-flag issues of many older wide angle lenses.

“fact I wish the Chinese companies could use their optical capabilities to make a lens as good if not better than the Leica 35mm APO Summicron one day, and price it in the same range as Leica’s.”

Weird wish.

There’s Voigtlander with their excellent 35 apo… but they’re not chinese. No cigar.

About the Leica 9-element, I’m in awe with a few particular winogrand images’ rendering. I’ve been trying to find out the lens on question. They all match with a certain year, and one same look. It’s the work of one particular lens. And it’s between the Leica 9-element and Canon 28.

I strongly favor the elmarit.

Magical.

 

[Ororaro]

Let me be clear; massive optical flaws, and yet unique as none other throughout his whiole collection…

 

[x-ray]

I had one of the originals I bought new back in the day. I don’t recall it being anything special especially at wider apertures but again it wasn’t a lens that stuck in my memory. I do remember trading it for a V2 which was an improvement but again nothing to write home about.

 

[enasniearth]

I had the original 30 years ago
it was a great lens but not compatible with my m5
the front glass on the LLL lens looks more sperical
more like the second type

 

[oldwino]

“fact I wish the Chinese companies could use their optical capabilities to make a lens as good if not better than the Leica 35mm APO Summicron one day, and price it in the same range as Leica’s.”

Weird wish.

There’s Voigtlander with their excellent 35 apo… but they’re not chinese. No cigar.

About the Leica 9-element, I’m in awe with a few particular winogrand images’ rendering. I’ve been trying to find out the lens on question. They all match with a certain year, and one same look. It’s the work of one particular lens. And it’s between the Leica 9-element and Canon 28.

I strongly favor the elmarit.

Magical.

I’m pretty certain Winogrand used the Canon 28f2.8.

 

[TenEleven]

I’m pretty certain Winogrand used the Canon 28f2.8.

Yeah there's even a picture of him standing with that lens very clearly attached to his M4

 

[trix4ever]

Yeah there's even a picture of him standing with that lens very clearly attached to his M4

He used the Canon 28mm f3.5. Then the f2.8, then leica 28mm f2.8, don't know which version. There are pictures of this online.

 

[gzisis69]

These are always very interesting attempts. We are in 2024 and China is making a great progress in technology. I would love a 28mm summicron copy with great quality and haptics. When the original one sells fore 2500 used i would happily pay for a new lens copy of it at around 500-600. Leica makes great lenses but is a small company and so prices are not priced for normal people. Such attempts maybe and hopefully will push her to bring her prices down and not only be accessible to collectors and rich people. If someone checks the reviews some Voigthländer 28mm lenses are of better optical quality than leicas but leica has better haptics and has given more thought to some important stuff such us zone focus distances, tab etc. These things should be copied hard from the chinese and not only the lens designs.

 

[santino]

I don’t think that company size is the main factor for Leica lenses beeing expensive. Labour cost in Germany is high and Leica has become a boutique brand (not really oriented towards the user). Nowadays Leica gear has to be expensive, it is part of their corporate identity. One has to give them credit for the quality their lenses though.