28mm f2.8 "Nine Element". Warning: not for Leica fanboys

[gzisis69]

We all love leica lenses here, otherwise they wouldnt be reproduced or copied. No one wants to copy a sigma art lens for example, despite him beeing also good. He is big, heavy, has no rendering character. You are right that leica took the boutique path instead of the photography oriented and a big reason for this direction are also collectors who keep lenses and cameras in boxes to admire them instead of destroying them from constant street use. And of course the costly manufacture shows it on use. No one else on the rangefinder lens field has time to think of the practicality of the lenses he produces. Voightländer makes for example lenses that are great but the focusing is not as well thought as leica ones. Who needs 0,5cm focus if his camera focuses till 0,7cm ? just to be prepared for the next generation of cameras ? i loved the size and the weight and of course looks of the vc 28mm f2 asph but the leica 28mm summicron remains the king of feeling just right when you zone focus on the streets and you also need some precission ta 10% of your photos. I think such things are missing form the china lenses and not the image quality.

 

[pgk]

I had one of the originals I bought new back in the day. I don’t recall it being anything special especially at wider apertures but again it wasn’t a lens that stuck in my memory. I do remember trading it for a V2 which was an improvement but again nothing to write home about.

I too had one. Soft corners even stopped down and if I remember correctly it performed less well focussed closer too. I got rid of mine quite quickly and made a few £s on it, so IMO financially was how it best performed ..... . I certainly wouldn't buy another, original or reproduction.

 

[HC-110]

New lenses: good thing.
Cheap lenses: why not.

BUT.

If I can opt between a classic or a replica, I take the classic.
I wanted a Leica Summaron 28. On the market, there is the classic ($1200 used), there is the "Leica copy" in M-mount ($3000 new) and there is the "chinese copy" from TTartisan ($350). I had the chance to find a decent original in like new condition. So I opted for the original Leica classic. I will never regret my choice. There are less than 10 000 of these lenses in the world and I have one.

By the way, I also drive an original 911. Not a chinese copy.

 

[splitimageview]

By the way, I also drive an original 911. Not a chinese copy.

Is there a copy? 🙂

What year is your 911?

 

[Ororaro]

I own the 9 element for almost two decades now. Had it recoated and recenented. This played on the images therefore I cannot say if it acts as an original or not.

I keep and forget I own it…

 

[Ko.Fe.]

The ghost of McCarthy still looms large, it seems. Too many people have a deeply engrained "lol china bad" response to basically everything.

Remember, once upon a time Japanese products were viewed the exact same way... no one's scowling at Nikon, Canon, or Voigtlander these days.

Japanese don't keep people in concentration camps anymore.

But I have MiC ebike, because I can't afford a Germany made one.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I agree, many of these small companies are driven by an interest in the history of the products they recreate. A lens like this is a niche product with a limited market. I doubt they employ near-slave workers like many of the big companies who manufacture for our big western brand names.

We don't know for sure how and where it is manufactured. But based how many mainland Chinese are able to buy properties in Canada for price, which born and raised in Canada can't afford anymore...
I was walking at Toronto lakeshore with new, most expensive condos. YT sensed my location and commercial was in Chinese.
Same would be at Moscow Road in London. But in Russian.

 

[Godfrey]

I'm not sure that I know what the point of this thread has transmogrified into. Has anyone tested the Light Lens Lab 28mm f/2.8 "nine element" lens yet? and can post a few photos made with it?

I have two 28mm lenses that I'm happy with and don't need/want another at present. I'm just wondering how this one performs, not fretting about where it is manufactured or by whom.

G

 

[Duofold RF]

Is there a copy? 🙂

Actually, there is one, and it won’t cost you an arm and a leg. However, I can’t vouch for its safety or performance, but it will definitely make your neighbors jealous

 

[Duofold RF]

New lenses: good thing.
Cheap lenses: why not.

BUT.

If I can opt between a classic or a replica, I take the classic.
I wanted a Leica Summaron 28. On the market, there is the classic ($1200 used), there is the "Leica copy" in M-mount ($3000 new) and there is the "chinese copy" from TTartisan ($350). I had the chance to find a decent original in like new condition. So I opted for the original Leica classic. I will never regret my choice. There are less than 10 000 of these lenses in the world and I have one.

By the way, I also drive an original 911. Not a chinese copy.

The TTartisan is a different optical design, not a knock off copy of Leica and they did not market as Leica copy like LLL

 

[splitimageview]

Has anyone tested the Light Lens Lab 28mm f/2.8 "nine element" lens yet?

Only LLL:

8/27/24:

"A prototype has been made and arrived in North America for testing. It is now available to loan to potential reviewers. The prototype lens is currently being tested by reviewers at Leica Society International."

Light Lens Lab 28mm f/2.8 “Nine Element” Now Available

Hello Everyone,We are proud to announce that Light Lens Lab 28mm f/2.8 "Nine Element" has completed the prototype stage. The lens is in production, and it is now available to order. A prototype has been made and arrived in North America for testing. It is now available to loan to potential...

lightlenslab.co

 

[Godfrey]

Actually, there is one, and it won’t cost you an arm and a leg. However, I can’t vouch for its safety or performance, but it will definitely make your neighbors jealousView attachment 4843655

... but not in that color! 😉

G

 

[Godfrey]

New lenses: good thing.
Cheap lenses: why not.

BUT.

If I can opt between a classic or a replica, I take the classic.
I wanted a Leica Summaron 28. On the market, there is the classic ($1200 used), there is the "Leica copy" in M-mount ($3000 new) and there is the "chinese copy" from TTartisan ($350). I had the chance to find a decent original in like new condition. So I opted for the original Leica classic. I will never regret my choice. There are less than 10 000 of these lenses in the world and I have one.

By the way, I also drive an original 911. Not a chinese copy.

I had a Leica Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH. A friend loaned me the Summaron-M 28mm f/5.6 ... A week later, I traded the Summicron 28 for the Summaron 28. Very happy with it, it was the right decision for me. I also have a Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 ... Another lovely lens, but it performs better with film than with digital capture.

I drive a 1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupé (in addition to my daily driver...). It inspired a lot of other cars in the years since it was first shown to the public (1965), but it's never been copied exactly that I know of. I don't know how many Lancia Fulvia Coupés were made, but it was popular enough that they made them up until 1976. 😉

G

 

[yossi]

I managed to find a review of this LLL 9-element 28mm lens (prototype) by a Chinese lens reviewer on their Bilibili site. Many sample test shots were presented and analysed. A few points of note:

1. Physically, the LLL lens is heavier due to the use of brass instead of aluminium for lens housing, and the hood is made of mental. It is a bit shorter in length cf. the original lens. Filter size changed from 48 to 49mm. Other than that, the appearance is very close to the original design.

2. The optical designer changed the curvature of the front element to a larger one, supposedly to improve the sharpness of the lens, esp. near the edge. The test images do show higher sharpness cf. the original lens.

3. While the general rendering of the new lens is similar to that of the original 9-element Elmarit, the contrast is a bit higher and the bokeh (esp. around the peripheral) is softer.

4. The colors produced by the new lens is "cooler" or more neutral cf. with the original which is said to be a little on the warm side.

Looking forward to seeing some real user's sample images soon.

(Btw this LLL lens is already listed on eBay for sale right now. They even offer a silver chrome one and says "Last one" before the first piece is out of their production line! 🙂 )

 

[TenEleven]

I managed to find a review of this LLL 9-element 28mm lens (prototype) by a Chinese lens reviewer on their Bilibili site. Many sample test shots were presented and analysed. A few points of note:

1. Physically, the LLL lens is heavier due to the use of brass instead of aluminium for lens housing, and the hood is made of mental. It is a bit shorter in length cf. the original lens. Filter size changed from 48 to 49mm. Other than that, the appearance is very close to the original design.

2. The optical designer changed the curvature of the front element to a larger one, supposedly to improve the sharpness of the lens, esp. near the edge. The test images do show higher sharpness cf. the original lens.

3. While the general rendering of the new lens is similar to that of the original 9-element Elmarit, the contrast is a bit higher and the bokeh (esp. around the peripheral) is softer.

4. The colors produced by the new lens is "cooler" or more neutral cf. with the original which is said to be a little on the warm side.

Looking forward to seeing some real user's sample images soon.

This all seems to line up with what seems to be LLL's usual approach.
For what it's worth I have two of their 35mm f2 "Eight Elements" - one is the "Early RFF Backer" limited version with 100% original (leaded) glass and the other is the much later LTM collapsible lens. I also have an original "Germany" 35mm f/2 V1 Summicron in LTM/M mount.

From my (limited - I prefer to shoot real world stuff) testing it's a similar story as outlined above. The early version is pretty much a faithful 1:1 copy with the only differences being a cooler color rendition and slightly elevated contrast due to the employment of more modern coatings.

However my favorite of the three is the collapsible version though, they pushed it a bit further for that one - it reins in (but does not fully correct) the spherical aberration and coma of the original while still retaining its "flavor". It retains the slightly cooler rendition and higher contrast, as expected. Also the lens collapses and works flawlessly on my LTM cameras while being lot cheaper - so I have no issues taking it out in the rain or to the beach etc.

 

[x-ray]

I started shooting Leica in 1968 and remember the price I paid for my 35 f1.4 Summilux. They were very scarce at the time but I finally found one in Washington DC at Ritz Camera. Leica wasn’t discounted in those days so I paid list price, $333, which is just over $3000 in todays inflated world.

Leica was expensive in those days because Leica produced relatively few cameras and created a shortage which kept prices high. In addition fixed prices and didn’t allow dealers to discount. If dealers were caught discounting Leica would strip them if their dealership. They also limited the number of dealers in any geographic area which served to protect dealers and help keep prices high.

Unfortunately I can’t remember all the prices over the years but Leica was never cheap. I do remember I paid $250 for my 21 f3.4 Super Angulon used, $250 for my first M2 body used and something around $125 for a used rigid 5cm Summicron.

 

[Archiver]

TBH, even though I haven't yet purchased any lenses from LLL, Thypoch or other Chinese companies, I can only applaud what they are doing. They seem to be producing niche but decent quality products that cater to the market of which we are a part. Through social media, they are improving visibility for our neck of the woods in terms of products, which inspires others to increase the range of products available to us. I'm all for it.

 

[panatomic]

So that means the next lens released will be the 35mm Double Aspherical, right?

 

[Duofold RF]

A very wordy guy with English subtitles—I didn’t have the patience to sit through over an hour of content, so I fast-forwarded to see some photos. Someone should tell him to edit his video down to 15 minutes or less. Maybe Matt - the Mr. Leicaguy can give him some paid YouTube lessons

 

[Freakscene]

I managed to find a review of this LLL 9-element 28mm lens (prototype) by a Chinese lens reviewer on their Bilibili site. Many sample test shots were presented and analysed. A few points of note:

1. Physically, the LLL lens is heavier due to the use of brass instead of aluminium for lens housing, and the hood is made of mental. It is a bit shorter in length cf. the original lens. Filter size changed from 48 to 49mm. Other than that, the appearance is very close to the original design.

2. The optical designer changed the curvature of the front element to a larger one, supposedly to improve the sharpness of the lens, esp. near the edge. The test images do show higher sharpness cf. the original lens.

3. While the general rendering of the new lens is similar to that of the original 9-element Elmarit, the contrast is a bit higher and the bokeh (esp. around the peripheral) is softer.

4. The colors produced by the new lens is "cooler" or more neutral cf. with the original which is said to be a little on the warm side.

Looking forward to seeing some real user's sample images soon.

(Btw this LLL lens is already listed on eBay for sale right now. They even offer a silver chrome one and says "Last one" before the first piece is out of their production line! 🙂 )

View attachment 4843669

That is a preorder for shipment at the end of the month.