2x3 cameras?

[alternatve]

No, you could not hold the camera steady enough for accurate focusing on the ground glass. Using the ground glass really requires a tripod. Hand-held use really needs a calibrated rangefinder. Perhaps with a small aperture for greatest depth-of-field, you might get away with it, but I'd expect a lot of poorly-focused shots (from my limited experience).

If you select the right lens for the rangefinder, and stick to just that lens, it is not too difficult to get the camera, lens and rangefinder calibrated. The Graflex Graphic cameras (either Speed Graphic or Crown Graphic) would be a good choice for starting out as they were designed to be used hand-held, but are also quite good for shooting off a tripod in a more deliberate fashion. There is also plenty of good information about them available on the web, and free copies of the original manuals.

Have you studied www.graflex.org? That is a good place to start.

Good luck!

Oh yes, that place is indeed a treasure chest of information. I only wish that I approached my other subjects with the same gusto.

Hmm, I see. Well, if others can do it, I guess so can I.

Solinar, I thank you for your concern, but I do view photography as a craft rather then for casual use. However, I am taken aback at the amount of information and need time to process it. But the friendly people here certainly has helped me quite a bit, and I thank you all for it.

The Busch Pressman looks good to me, but I don't know whether it'll take roll film or be able to be modified to take grafloc backs although I've heard of them being modified in that way before.

Samuel

 

[David Goldfarb]

On a Linhof 2x3" Technika, the rangefinder cam is like a flower with three lobes, and each lobe is a cam that has been individually calibrated and serial number stamped for one lens. To change lenses and cams you just unclip the lensboard, rotate the cam, and clip a new lens in. If you want more than three cammed lenses, then you have to change the three-lobed cam, which takes a little longer, but still isn't too difficult.

With press cameras that don't use cams, you have to calibrate the rangefinder to one lens, and this is a bit of a process, but you can dedicate one lens to rangefinder or groundglass use, and use other lenses with the groundglass.

Uncoupled rangefinders are an option, where you mount the rangefinder on an accessory shoe and make a focusing scale for each lens on the camera bed.

If you have a camera that has a coupled rangefinder for one lens, you can use it as an uncoupled rangefinder for other lenses. Say you've calibrated the rangefinder for your 100mm lens, but you've also got a 65mm and a 180mm. You make distance scales on the bed and set up infinity stops for all three, and when you're using the 65mm lens, say, you focus with the rangefinder, read the distance on the 100mm scale, adjust the focus to the same distance on the 65mm scale, and you should be in focus at that distance--not so difficult once you get the hang of it, but not as quick or precise as having a cammed coupled rangefinder for each lens.

 

[Solinar]

I do view photography as a craft rather then for casual use.

Excellent. I read the comment about 35mm SLRs and went oops.

Here in the US, the plastic bodied Century Graphic is under appreciated . Hence it is a good value relative to my big Fuji 6x9. I may get one myself that lacks the built in RF and go the uncoupled RF route.

Even with my RF background, I can appreciate ground glass focusing, especially when the screen is 2 by 3 inches. However, for more casual usage, I'd like to the rangefinder option as well. That way I can leave the film back on the camera between exposures.

 

[Solinar]

Uncoupled rangefinders are an option, where you mount the rangefinder on an accessory shoe and make a focusing scale for each lens on the camera bed.

If you have a camera that has a coupled rangefinder for one lens, you can use it as an uncoupled rangefinder for other lenses.

Samuel, this is the route that I would use. That would allow for an old Ektar WA and something akin to a 180mm in addition to the normal lens. The three are the equivalent to a 28, 45 and 75mm in the 35mm SLR world.

 

[wlewisiii]

The price is good enough on that Busch to almost be worth it, but the only roll film adaptor for a spring back is the Adapt-A-Roll which will feed 120 but requires a 620 takeup spool. I have one and the nicest thing I can say is that it works. If you do end up with a spring back camera, let me know and I'll probably let you have the AAR for a couple of rolls of film.

The press camera can be a fast handling shooter or it can be a slow & contemplative image maker. While the Linhof or Arca-Swiss are great cameras, the price performance ratio of a 2x3 Pacemaker or Century Graphic is one of the best bargains in photography today.

William

 

[alternatve]

On a Linhof 2x3" Technika, the rangefinder cam is like a flower with three lobes, and each lobe is a cam that has been individually calibrated and serial number stamped for one lens. To change lenses and cams you just unclip the lensboard, rotate the cam, and clip a new lens in. If you want more than three cammed lenses, then you have to change the three-lobed cam, which takes a little longer, but still isn't too difficult.

With press cameras that don't use cams, you have to calibrate the rangefinder to one lens, and this is a bit of a process, but you can dedicate one lens to rangefinder or groundglass use, and use other lenses with the groundglass.

Uncoupled rangefinders are an option, where you mount the rangefinder on an accessory shoe and make a focusing scale for each lens on the camera bed.

If you have a camera that has a coupled rangefinder for one lens, you can use it as an uncoupled rangefinder for other lenses. Say you've calibrated the rangefinder for your 100mm lens, but you've also got a 65mm and a 180mm. You make distance scales on the bed and set up infinity stops for all three, and when you're using the 65mm lens, say, you focus with the rangefinder, read the distance on the 100mm scale, adjust the focus to the same distance on the 65mm scale, and you should be in focus at that distance--not so difficult once you get the hang of it, but not as quick or precise as having a cammed coupled rangefinder for each lens.

Trust the Germans to think of everything.

So let me get this straight. You set the infinity stops for the lenses you are using, and plot a distance scale for the most used lens. While using the other lenses, you use the same scale, but set it to a different infinity stop? Hey, I think I might get the hang of this. It even sounds pretty fun. Shh, don't tell anyone else, they might lock me up.

Solinar,

Hey, plastic is good. Termites can't chew into it and it doesn't rot, not for a few hundred years. I tried AF SLRs and got turned away from it. Photography isn't a craft when you spend 2 seconds to take a picture and zero time composing it. Also, what focal lengths correspond to those three values again? 65mm, 100mm and 180mm?

wlewisiii,

I think I'll save my pain for the focusing and tilt/shift functions. The last thing I want to know is my roll came out blank after a long, tiring day out lugging the camera! I guess I'll keep a lookout for a Century or a Pacemaker then. No rush, I think I need to learn a whole lot more myself. Thanks a bunch guys.

Samuel

 

[David Goldfarb]

So let me get this straight. You set the infinity stops for the lenses you are using, and plot a distance scale for the most used lens. While using the other lenses, you use the same scale, but set it to a different infinity stop? Hey, I think I might get the hang of this. It even sounds pretty fun. Shh, don't tell anyone else, they might lock me up.

Almost. If you're using the method of one coupled lens/other uncoupled lenses, you have a set of infinity stops and a focusing scale for each lens.

When you change lenses, you change infinity stops.

The rangefinder is calibrated for one lens (say 100mm) and the distance scale for that lens always tells you how far away the subject is, no matter what lens is on the camera. You use the other scales to adjust the focus for the lens on the camera. So if you are using the 100mm lens, just focus with the rangefinder, look through the viewfinder, frame, and shoot (don't forget to pull the darkslide, cock the shutter, stop down the lens, and set the shutter speed, not necessarily in that order). If you are using a 65mm lens, you focus, read the distance off the 100mm scale, then using the 65mm scale refocus the camera for the same distance, frame and shoot.

Here's another neat thing. If the camera has a seemingly primitive wire frame finder with a sight on the camera body and a wire frame on the front standard, then it works with any focal length as long as the lens is not a telephoto design in general (where the node of the lens will be way out in front of the lensboard)--simple, but ingenious.

 

[alternatve]

Thanks. I'm searching for a 2x3 or 4x5 Century or a Pacemaker Graphic now. Lens boards, acessories and the all important graflok back are my main motivators to buy graphic. To be honest, a Horseman or a Linhof looks mighty fine, but too expensive for me.

Oh btw, are all graflok holders compatible with all graflok rollfilm backs made?

Samuel

 

[venchka]

Good luck!

Good luck!

Thanks. I'm searching for a 2x3 or 4x5 Century or a Pacemaker Graphic now. Lens boards, acessories and the all important graflok back are my main motivators to buy graphic. To be honest, a Horseman or a Linhof looks mighty fine, but too expensive for me.

Oh btw, are all graflok holders compatible with all graflok rollfilm backs made?

Samuel

Theoretically, yes. To be 100% certain, stick to Graflex/Graphic brand rollfilm backs. However, 2x3 rollfilm holders only fit 2x3 cameras. Same for 4x5 holders. Grafmatic holders also come in both sizes, "23" and "45".

 

[alternatve]

Theoretically, yes. To be 100% certain, stick to Graflex/Graphic brand rollfilm backs. However, 2x3 rollfilm holders only fit 2x3 cameras. Same for 4x5 holders. Grafmatic holders also come in both sizes, "23" and "45".

Hmm, I see. Could I use another manufacturer's rollfilm holder, say Mamiya's 6x7 back?

Samuel

 

[wlewisiii]

Hmm, I see. Could I use another manufacturer's rollfilm holder, say Mamiya's 6x7 back?

Samuel

Yes, if it uses the two sliding tabs to hold the back to the camera, it will work. I've heard of the Horseman & the Mamiya backs being used successfully. The Mamiyas look almost identical to my RH-10 and are supposed to be better made. I can't say as I haven't used them. Both are also considerably more expensive than the Singer-Graphics ones.

Which reminds me - only get the later lever wind backs if you can. They have much better film flatness than the knob wind ones.

William

 

[Solinar]

The later Graflex backs are usually marked Singer-Graphic and have added rollers for film flatness. Still, it is good idea to advance the film just before making the exposure.

With regards to Mamiya RB backs, there is one for 6x7 that is even motorized. On a Graphic this may be a bit overboard, as one must manually tension the shutter and use a cable release, but what a luxury.

 

[kuzano]

Lever wind vs knob wind Graflex and Flat Film

Lever wind vs knob wind Graflex and Flat Film

Two previous posts refer to the film flatness of Graflex roll film holders. The pin rollers that help keep the film flat were actually added before the backs changed from knob wind to lever wind. Look for those pin rollers and a knob wind can:

1) save you money because common thinking is that the pin rollers don't exist in knob winds, making them inferior... wrong. Late knob winds had pin rollers. People generally will pay more for lever winds, less for knob wind.
2) Avoid floppy levers. Many lever wind backs have weak return springs on the lever. The levers on these don't fully retract and can catch on objects, advancing the film.

If the back has a knob wind AND the two pin rollers at each end of the film opening, I suggest that is the better Graflex back.

 

[Solinar]

Very good info. Welcome to the dark slide. No pun intended.

 

[wlewisiii]

Oh, that is very good to know. Everything I'd read indicated that the pin rollers did come it with the lever wind. Thanks for the information!

Willim

 

[alternatve]

Yes, if it uses the two sliding tabs to hold the back to the camera, it will work. I've heard of the Horseman & the Mamiya backs being used successfully. The Mamiyas look almost identical to my RH-10 and are supposed to be better made. I can't say as I haven't used them. Both are also considerably more expensive than the Singer-Graphics ones.

Which reminds me - only get the later lever wind backs if you can. They have much better film flatness than the knob wind ones.

William

Thanks. I want a back that uses 6x7 images.

Thanks for the PM wlewisiii, I appreciate it, but I want to keep things local first, so that I have a chance to handle the camera. If all else fails, then I'm afraid evil bay would have to suffice.

Samuel

 

[venchka]

Be afraid of ebay. Be very afraid.

Unless the seller is known to this community.

 

[alternatve]

Yea, that's what I'm trying to avoid at all costs. However, I cannot find an alternative place to purchase it. A Horseman with lens costs around $3.8k USD in a local camera shop and Graphics are either in the hands of photographers or not at all. I'm afraid there isn't too big a following of LF cameras here.

But anyway, I can take my time. It's a want, not a need.

Just one last question, How do you know how much of the image in the ground glass gets taken in by the film when using different format backs, 6x9 and 6x7 for example. Is there gridlines that tell me the film coverage, or is the picture squeezed into whatever film size there is? Thanks.

Samuel

 

[David Goldfarb]

The size of the image on the groundglass is the size of the image on the maximum film size. If the film is smaller than the groundglass, then only that part of what you see on the glass is what you get on film.

As to how you know where the frame edges are, it depends on the groundglass. Some are marked for different formats, and some are not, and some people use overlays or groundglass masks. I usually mark the groundglass on the matte side with pencil. You could also mark it on the shiny side with a china marker. There are some free overlays for 4x5" groundglasses available on www.satinsnowglass.com that you can print out on transparency film, and then if you have a 2x3" camera, you can just cut them to size.

 

[venchka]

Several forums on the internet have classified ads. This forum and the Large Format Forum both accept Want To Buy ads and you may get lucky. Keep you eyes open! There are reputable shops in Japan and Hong Kong that have ebay stores. Something may pop up there. I know that a a member of this forum who lives in Europe had a member in the U.S. handle buying and shipping a graphic camera to Europe this year. Where there is a will there is a way. Considering where you are and the lack of accessories, buying a complete system with camera, lens, holders, backs, etc. makes sense.

I just mailed a securely packaged 4x5 Speed Graphic in the U.S. and the total weight was almost 8 pounds. That will give you some idea of shipping costs to Singapore.

Good luck!