Renzsu
Well-known
Thank you for sharing!
kywong
Established
I'm guessing you want reviews as a starting point to narrow down your choices from the vast range of film that is available.
While I understand that you've decided to go with cheap film for character from colour shifts and grain, I'm not sure these colour shifts are characterful, to me cheap film colours are just horrible. That said, I have only tried a narrow range of cheap film.
What may work better than just buying the cheap film, I think, is if you go on Flickr and search the following four colour films, Kodak Portra 160NC, Kodak Portra 400NC, Fujifilm Reala 100 and Fujifilm 800Z, take a look at the photos and see which ones float your boat.
If you're really keen on colour shifts, you can also try cross-processing, you'll get VERY whacky and unpredictable results.
While I understand that you've decided to go with cheap film for character from colour shifts and grain, I'm not sure these colour shifts are characterful, to me cheap film colours are just horrible. That said, I have only tried a narrow range of cheap film.
What may work better than just buying the cheap film, I think, is if you go on Flickr and search the following four colour films, Kodak Portra 160NC, Kodak Portra 400NC, Fujifilm Reala 100 and Fujifilm 800Z, take a look at the photos and see which ones float your boat.
If you're really keen on colour shifts, you can also try cross-processing, you'll get VERY whacky and unpredictable results.
bmattock
Veteran
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Why don't you go back to bed and wake up in the current decade? Sheesh. No need to fill the thread with sour-mouthed untruths.
kywong
Established
No sarcasm intended!Good use of sarcasm!
antiquark
Derek Ross
If you have a scientific bent, you can download the technical datasheets from the manufacturer's site and look at the resolution ratings, grain numbers, etc. The numbers don't mean much by themselves, but it allows you to compare different films.
bmattock
Veteran
You're right, I was exaggerating. I'm sorry. The list must be at least half a dozen.
mattlee
Newbie
Do you have the PDF for the 28 B&W films? And when was the specs on the 83 colour films published? Thanks!
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I read one of the reviews in Shutterbug, quite good, clearly written by someone who not only is knowledgeable about film, but also love using it.
I forgot who was it...
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Yes things are indeed great! - last week while shooting digitally in another town, I decided to get 'artistic' and bought a roll of b+w film for the back-up camera in my bag. The assistant in the Jessops branch said "yes sir-we still keep one or two films", and charged me UK £5.50 = USD $8.68? for a roll of HP5+!. Instead of a cafe lunch, I ate my bread crust and bottle of water on the park bench!
......Yes things are great!, and in another few years will be even greater! Dave
nksyoon
Well-known
No, sorry, didn't expect Pop Photo to remove them. Photo Techniques magazine also used to have film comparisons online but not anymore.
Chris101
summicronia
I read one of the reviews in Shutterbug, quite good, clearly written by someone who not only is knowledgeable about film, but also love using it.
I forgot who was it...
As a dim bulb slowly turns on above my head, I utter, "Ohhhh, I get it...!"
amateriat
We're all light!
Speaking strictly for myself, with the exception of photo magazines which emphasize photography (B&W, Focus, Blind Spot, LensWork, etc.), photography magazines in general are defunct concept*, unless you're into reading the numbingly-same reviews of the hot dSLR du jour or another round of 96 New Stupid Photoshop Tricks. I actually stopped reading the stuff well before digital was the 900lb gorilla it is now. When you finally grok the gear that works for you, the stuff gets boring fast-fast-fast. (Besides, when I need info on something like, say, the Panasonic GF-1, what am I going to do, wait for some digicam mag to get to it, or hit DPReview or Steve's Digicams to get the scoop? A no-brainer, really.)
I pick up a hard-copy photography magazine to luxuriate in the images...something the Web still largely sucks horribly at. (IMO, of course.
)- Barrett
* Shutterbug still comes in handy once in a while, so I buy a few copies from time to time. Want to help keep 'em around for Roger's sake.
Scandium
Member
Film Reviews...
Film Reviews...
Getting objective B&W film reviews is a tall order. When one considers exposure technique, the number of developer choices, development technique, paper & print development, or even scan to digital for print, the number of variables involved make it difficult to produce useful, scientific comparisons. The last B&W film comparison I remember was a supplement to one of the British monthlies around 2003. It wasn't very useful because there was no mention of development technique and grain and sharpness remarks were entirely subjective.
All that said, I am in the process of evaluating a group of 100 ISO films that includes: Kodak 125PX, Arista Premium 100, Kentmere 100, Legacy Pro 100, Fuji Acros, and possibly Eastman 5231. The evaluation is not entirely scientific, i.e. not all the variables are controlled and not all characteristics will be measured, rather they will be interpreted subjectively.
Goals
Controlled Variables
Other Variables
I'll post my conclusions as the experiment progresses.
Status
The 125PX portion has been shot, developed, and most scanning is finished. I started at EI 125 and 8 min. in HC-110(H) @20C. Highlights were too hot when scanned. EI dropped to 100 with 7 min. in HC-110(H) @20C. Scans now satisfactory.
Overall impressions
Sharpness: good
Grain: fine without much aliasing during scanning
The scans have pleasing mid-tones, but one has to be careful of the high values. It looks like the curve sweeps upward, i.e. contrast in the high zones increases as exposure increases. This means I'll have to be careful or the highlights will exceed the range of my scanner. It shouldn't be as much of an issue in the darkroom.
Initial impression: I like the film very much, especially the rich mid tones, but I really want a film with more shoulder so I won't have to sweat the highlights as much. Arista Premium 100 is purported to be 125PX at a lower price point. I'm anxious to see if testing confirms it.
You can view some images here:
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/p241634678
The Brick Wall & Gate are EI 100/7 min. All the rest are EI 125/8 min.
These are simply my observations. Take them with some salt.
Glenn
Film Reviews...
Getting objective B&W film reviews is a tall order. When one considers exposure technique, the number of developer choices, development technique, paper & print development, or even scan to digital for print, the number of variables involved make it difficult to produce useful, scientific comparisons. The last B&W film comparison I remember was a supplement to one of the British monthlies around 2003. It wasn't very useful because there was no mention of development technique and grain and sharpness remarks were entirely subjective.
All that said, I am in the process of evaluating a group of 100 ISO films that includes: Kodak 125PX, Arista Premium 100, Kentmere 100, Legacy Pro 100, Fuji Acros, and possibly Eastman 5231. The evaluation is not entirely scientific, i.e. not all the variables are controlled and not all characteristics will be measured, rather they will be interpreted subjectively.
Goals
- Identify a film that both scans well and prints well in the darkroom
- Finest grain and greatest sharpness while satisfying the first bullet
- Wide dynamic range while still satisfying the first two bullets
- Reasonable cost
Controlled Variables
- Develop with HC-110 - I've used it for years and have plenty of it.
- Scan with CanoScan FS-2710 - It's what I have
- Print condenser enlarger on Kentmere Select VC RC paper - I have lots of this, too
- Digital prints from Canon iP4300 printer on Costco Glossy paper
Other Variables
- Camera - Zeiss Ikon or EOS-1v
- Lenses - Zeiss 2.0/50, Canon 100 f/2.0, Sigma 20mm f/1.8, ...
- Lighting - Outdoors, ambient, whatever the day brings
I'll post my conclusions as the experiment progresses.
Status
The 125PX portion has been shot, developed, and most scanning is finished. I started at EI 125 and 8 min. in HC-110(H) @20C. Highlights were too hot when scanned. EI dropped to 100 with 7 min. in HC-110(H) @20C. Scans now satisfactory.
Overall impressions
Sharpness: good
Grain: fine without much aliasing during scanning
The scans have pleasing mid-tones, but one has to be careful of the high values. It looks like the curve sweeps upward, i.e. contrast in the high zones increases as exposure increases. This means I'll have to be careful or the highlights will exceed the range of my scanner. It shouldn't be as much of an issue in the darkroom.
Initial impression: I like the film very much, especially the rich mid tones, but I really want a film with more shoulder so I won't have to sweat the highlights as much. Arista Premium 100 is purported to be 125PX at a lower price point. I'm anxious to see if testing confirms it.
You can view some images here:
http://gascherb.zenfolio.com/p241634678
The Brick Wall & Gate are EI 100/7 min. All the rest are EI 125/8 min.
These are simply my observations. Take them with some salt.
Glenn
amateriat
We're all light!
Glenn: I'm actually interested in your results, as I've never seen anything like this done in-print.
I do recall the color-film "shoot-outs" done in the mainstream mags. The thing is, since new-film introductions were relatively glacial in frequency, I only needed to glance at one such article for an overview, not each and every year. (But magazines need to crank stuff out every month, so...)
- Barrett
I do recall the color-film "shoot-outs" done in the mainstream mags. The thing is, since new-film introductions were relatively glacial in frequency, I only needed to glance at one such article for an overview, not each and every year. (But magazines need to crank stuff out every month, so...)
- Barrett
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Scandium
Member
Subjective Film Test...
Subjective Film Test...
Barrett,
This is a loosely constructed subjective experiment. I was an analytical chemist by day in the 70s & 80s. Part of my job was calibrating spectroscopic plates for one of the instruments. I applied the same techniques to the B&W films I was using. After a couple of years of experimenting I discovered that the variation in camera & lens performance, lighting, tap water, and other parameters exceeded most of the variation in the films I was using. Now, when I try a new film, testing is fairly simple.
1. Pick a developer
2. Pick a trial EI
3. Make some test exposures
4. Develop the film with a trial time
5. Evaluate the contrast
6. Evaluate the Zone I density to determine if the trial EI was OK
7. Adjust the development time if the contrast isn't what I want
8. Adjust the EI to get the Zone I density where I want
9. Go back to step 3 and repeat until the contrast is where I want it and I have determined a satisfactory EI.
Because the experiment includes a particular camera, lens, enlarger, paper, developers, etc. contrast and EI are dependent on the equipment and techniques I am using. Your experience may vary.
I'm not measuring grain, tonal separation, or sharpness... no micrographs or fancy calculations. I'll just make some subjective judgments along these lines:
1. Does the negative print with the tonal separation that I want on the paper I want to use?
2. How does the negative scan?
2a. Do I get excessive grain aliasing?
2b. Are the high zones blocked?
3. How does the grain pattern look?
4. How do the details in the smooth regions of the image look?
5. How is the overall sharpness?
I'll post some results as the experiment progresses. I have to finish one more roll each of Kentmere 100 and Acros, so I should have some preliminary data on them next week. There is almost nothing available on the Kentmere film, so I'm particularly excited about it. I have to buy some 5231 before I can get to testing it. It's cinema negative rated at ISO 80, but because cinema films are rated for a lower gamma, it will probably manage EI 100 - 125 when processed to the higher still film gamma. 5231 is in this list because cinema films usually have longer tonal scales and wider dynamic range compared to their still counterparts. However, one has the inconvenience of loading cartridges and their lack of frame numbers.
More as it happens... back to my day job.
Glenn
Subjective Film Test...
Barrett,
This is a loosely constructed subjective experiment. I was an analytical chemist by day in the 70s & 80s. Part of my job was calibrating spectroscopic plates for one of the instruments. I applied the same techniques to the B&W films I was using. After a couple of years of experimenting I discovered that the variation in camera & lens performance, lighting, tap water, and other parameters exceeded most of the variation in the films I was using. Now, when I try a new film, testing is fairly simple.
1. Pick a developer
2. Pick a trial EI
3. Make some test exposures
4. Develop the film with a trial time
5. Evaluate the contrast
6. Evaluate the Zone I density to determine if the trial EI was OK
7. Adjust the development time if the contrast isn't what I want
8. Adjust the EI to get the Zone I density where I want
9. Go back to step 3 and repeat until the contrast is where I want it and I have determined a satisfactory EI.
Because the experiment includes a particular camera, lens, enlarger, paper, developers, etc. contrast and EI are dependent on the equipment and techniques I am using. Your experience may vary.
I'm not measuring grain, tonal separation, or sharpness... no micrographs or fancy calculations. I'll just make some subjective judgments along these lines:
1. Does the negative print with the tonal separation that I want on the paper I want to use?
2. How does the negative scan?
2a. Do I get excessive grain aliasing?
2b. Are the high zones blocked?
3. How does the grain pattern look?
4. How do the details in the smooth regions of the image look?
5. How is the overall sharpness?
I'll post some results as the experiment progresses. I have to finish one more roll each of Kentmere 100 and Acros, so I should have some preliminary data on them next week. There is almost nothing available on the Kentmere film, so I'm particularly excited about it. I have to buy some 5231 before I can get to testing it. It's cinema negative rated at ISO 80, but because cinema films are rated for a lower gamma, it will probably manage EI 100 - 125 when processed to the higher still film gamma. 5231 is in this list because cinema films usually have longer tonal scales and wider dynamic range compared to their still counterparts. However, one has the inconvenience of loading cartridges and their lack of frame numbers.
More as it happens... back to my day job.
Glenn
Carlsen Highway
Well-known
Despite someone's unhealthily morbid interest in the death of film; I can state that I really have never been better served with B&W film products than I am now.
Ten to fifteen years ago, all I could get was T Max. And more T max. And I didnt like T Max much. And the occassional roll of Ilford for variety...I used to beg them to order green boxes of TRi X, and they used to shake their heads and chuckle and tell me how T max was the latest thing, that soon they would stop making that old stuff....
Today I have the choice of anything I like - God bless the internet. All the old standbys are still around TRi X Plus X, HP5, FP4, like old movie stars doing cameo spots on TV sitcoms, still working for a dollar, plus all the other stuff I never had the chance to use before....only stuff I cant see is the Agfa.
If film is dead, or at least undead, then I am a film zombie....
PS - (Good lord, you know I can even buy Tri x and plus X Super 8mm film still....HA ! Super 8 has outlived videotape! I dance on it's grave!)
Ten to fifteen years ago, all I could get was T Max. And more T max. And I didnt like T Max much. And the occassional roll of Ilford for variety...I used to beg them to order green boxes of TRi X, and they used to shake their heads and chuckle and tell me how T max was the latest thing, that soon they would stop making that old stuff....
Today I have the choice of anything I like - God bless the internet. All the old standbys are still around TRi X Plus X, HP5, FP4, like old movie stars doing cameo spots on TV sitcoms, still working for a dollar, plus all the other stuff I never had the chance to use before....only stuff I cant see is the Agfa.
If film is dead, or at least undead, then I am a film zombie....
PS - (Good lord, you know I can even buy Tri x and plus X Super 8mm film still....HA ! Super 8 has outlived videotape! I dance on it's grave!)
allthumbs
Established
Photo Utopia
Photo Utopia
Hi folks, I haven't posted in a long while; really came by today just to check the classifieds but this thread caught my attention. Great question, and great replies with lots of helpful information--same old RFF.
Anyway, I just want to mention that there are over a dozen film reviews (predominantly for BW films) at the blog Photo Utopia along with interesting technical articles and film camera reviews. The URL below is for a post that lists and links to the film reviews (though I don't know if it's exhaustive):
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/12/film-tests.html
anorphirith, for a different look in color, you may want to try DNP Centuria (formerly Konica Centuria) or Agfa Vista. Examples on flickr. Both still available.
Saul Leiter bought cheap, expired color films for his Leica because he enjoyed surprises. http://www.lensculture.com/leiter.html
Cheers. May your experiments be fun and productive.
Photo Utopia
Hi folks, I haven't posted in a long while; really came by today just to check the classifieds but this thread caught my attention. Great question, and great replies with lots of helpful information--same old RFF.
Anyway, I just want to mention that there are over a dozen film reviews (predominantly for BW films) at the blog Photo Utopia along with interesting technical articles and film camera reviews. The URL below is for a post that lists and links to the film reviews (though I don't know if it's exhaustive):
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/12/film-tests.html
anorphirith, for a different look in color, you may want to try DNP Centuria (formerly Konica Centuria) or Agfa Vista. Examples on flickr. Both still available.
Saul Leiter bought cheap, expired color films for his Leica because he enjoyed surprises. http://www.lensculture.com/leiter.html
Cheers. May your experiments be fun and productive.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Yes, there is a good selection of film out there, at least on the internet if not at the local drugstore. It seems that 800 numbers, credit cards, the internet, etc. have done more to destroy the traditional supply channels than the product itself.