35mm Summicron v4 plastic part replacement

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optical

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Hi,
after selling my 35mm v2 Summicron and missing it i want to buy another 35mm Leica lens with that classic look.
I really liked my v2 except the smeary corners and the sometimes very strong glow on bright things.

I think v4 checks all my requirements (classic look, usable wide open, small and good handling).
Unfortunately a german version is too expensive for me, so i've read quite a bit about the canadian version with all its problems (crooked hood and broken aperture plastic thingy).

Is it still possible for Leica to repair this? Do you know if in case of a repair due to broken plastic parts Leica replaces the canadian plastic parts with german metal parts?
In this price range i want to have a lens that lasts a lifetime. My v2 was 52 years old and still working very fine mechanically...

Thanks in advance!
 
I thought the German versions had that plastic part, too. You should call Don Goldberg and ask him; he would know if the German version is really better and if the parts are available to repair them.

https://www.dagcamera.com/contact.html

Don's website just sells parts, but he is the best Leica repair tech in the USA. He and his father both worked for Leica, and he is a walking encyclopedia of Leica technical knowledge and history.
 
I think it is an urban myth that v4 is usable wide open, at least not more useable than a V3 (I don't have personal experience with V2).

V4's reputation stems from the extremely pleasing OOF rendition around f 5.6. Wide open isn't spectacular in any way.
Although, those who bought into the "King of Bokeh" thing didn't pay attention in class and think they have to shoot it at f2 to get their moneys worth.

The V4 is an exercise in cost-cutting at a time when Leica had a hard time, and you can easily feel it when you handle the lens - It does not feel up to par with the quality you would expect from Leica.
If you can't find or afford one made of metal, I would avoid it all together. Both the predecessor and successor to V4 are much better value in todays market.

In any case, Gus Lazzari's teardown of the V4 linked above is mandatory reading for those who consider this lens.
 
Hi,
thanks for your answers.
After reading the thread on the photo.net forum which lead me to a thread in the l-camera-forum i think i won't buy a canadian version. There is a guy that paid around 700€ for a broken canadian summicron in 2011, i think the same repair would be like 1500€ now.

Nitroplait
thats an interesting thought. I think that my v2 was usable wide open in about 75% of the pictures i took. Pictures with the subject in the center look quite nice because of the fast loss of sharpness outside the center area.

There`s like a ton of small 35mm lenses with a focus tab and none of them seems to check all the boxes for me 😀

Leica Summicron v1: way too expensive
Leica Summicron v2 & v3: smeary corners wide open only sharp in the center
Leica Summicron v4: german copy way too expensive, canadian copy might be very pricey in case of plastic breakage
Leica Summicron v5: very clinical look
Leica Summilux preA: too glowy, not sharp wide open, way to expensive
Leica Summarit: quite clinical look in my eyes

Voigtländer Nokton: pretty bad ergonomics imo, very small focus tab and the aperture-wings are in the way while focusing at f1.4
Voigtländer Ultron: looks nice, very stupid MFD for a rangefinder lens in my opinion. I'm often shooting indoors at MFD so i think this wouldn't be practical for me

Light Lens Lab 35mm f2 might be an option but i am not a fan of chinese rip offs from german brands
 
V2 and V3 don't share optical design.
Can't comment on the resulting differences as I haven't used the V2. But between the V3 and V4 I don't see differences wide open that couldn't be accounted for by random circumstances rather than optical differences. They are both useable - not great.

I notice you are dismissing V1 and V4 for cost reasons, but they also have their optical challenges, often ignored by their owners who desperately want to justify the (over)price most of them paid.

None of these lenses were designed with wide open performance as a priority - the obsession with shooting wide open is a more recent phenomenon. Back in the 70's and 80's we all knew we had to stop down 2 or 3 stops to get good performance even with Leica.

If going for wide open is a priority, the successor to V4 is a better bet. As you have come to conclude yourself, you can't have everything.
 
Nitroplait said:
V2 and V3 don't share optical design.
Click to expand...
Do you have any info on this topic? I've read from multiple sources online that the only difference between these two versions is the changed body.

Maybe i have to try the v5 asph version. From what i've read people do either love it or hate it for its rendering.
 
optical said:
Do you have any info on this topic? I've read from multiple sources online that the only difference between these two versions is the changed body.
Click to expand...

Amplified internet misinformation.
Not intentional of course - just people repeating what they read without referencing the (faulty) source and making it sound like it is a fact.
Leica didn't help by giving the two lenses the same model code number.

The funny thing is that it is very obvious to see if you look at them side by side. Version 3 has a noticeable larger front element than V2, ergo they can't be the same.
Other less visible things changed as well - according to reliable literature like the one referenced below:

If you want to read up on the nuances and optical differences of the various 35mm lenses, I can recommend late Erwin Puts' Leica Lens Compendium - the 2005 version can be found in pdf format free online (although without illustrations) See pages 140-142.
https://archive.org/details/LeicaLen....D.TeoliJr.A.C.
 
Identifying Leica Lenses by G. Sartorius is a nice small paper cover book that is a great resource for the quick and dirty on Leica lenses. The 35mm V2 had 6 elements. V3 had 8 elements. I've had the later V3 (there were 2 versions with same optics but different bodies) and thank you I like it very well. I never examine the corners with a loupe because I never put the main subject in corners. I disagree with Nitroplait in one small point "wide open performance as a priority - the obsession with shooting wide open is a more recent phenomenon." Why would anybody buy a faster lens if stopping it down 2 or 3 stops was all they wanted. No, people wanted fast lenses way back then because film was slow. If you wanted really great pictures it was Kodachrome 25 or Kodak Pan 32. Sunny day you good shoot at 1/60 and F11, life was great. You wanted fast! Kodak Tri X at 400 (course the grain was really bad and pushing it was even worse but it did hide a lot of optical defects). Lenses have always been designed with trade offs. High contrast - low resolution, high resolution - low contrast; contrast, resolution falls off the faster the lens design, and corners fall off even worse. Falloff in the corners gets worse yet. It's easy to design a 35mm/3.5 lens, harder to design a 35mm/2 and once you get to 1.4 there's a lot of trade offs. Today we have digital (and faster and better films) and lens' designs (no longer done by hand) that is way better than what was done in the '70's, '80's, etc. Thus the reason newer VC lenses are as good or better than the '70's lenses, or why the new crop of Chinese lenses are so good.
 
Beemermark said:
The 35mm V2 had 6 elements. V3 had 8 elements.
Click to expand...
No the 35/2 V3 had 6 elements. Its design is different, but not radically so, from the V2.

Beemermark said:
Why would anybody buy a faster lens if stopping it down 2 or 3 stops was all they wanted. No, people wanted fast lenses way back then because film was slow. If you wanted really great pictures it was Kodachrome 25 or Kodak Pan 32. Sunny day you good shoot at 1/60 and F11, life was great. You wanted fast! Kodak Tri X at 400 (course the grain was really bad and pushing it was even worse but it did hide a lot of optical defects)....
Click to expand...
Sounds like you didn't understand my statement and also like you weren't active in the 70's.
Photographers would buy fast lenses for the flexibility they offered not with the purpose to shoot wide open. The practice of deliberately buying slow film and ND filters to shoot wide open is a recent fad. Besides, we had plenty of fast film in the 70's.
 
I dunno about "v4 vs v5 vs all the others" etc with respect to the Summicron 35. I've had several of them over the years, and the Summiluxes as well. I bought my 1972 Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2 about a dozen years ago and have used it with M9, M-P240, M-D262, SL, CL, M4-P, and M10-M bodies with nothing but exceptional results and satisfying delight. Yeah, it's not super sharp at the edges at f/1.4, but it's small, light, and has outstanding imaging qualities. It cost me $1300, in box with caps and lens hood, and another hundred or so to have it six-bit coded by DAG. It's one of the two/three lenses I'll carry today at the All Italian Day Car & Motorcycle Show in Alameda, CA...


Bird Feeder - Santa Clara 2021
Leica CL + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2
ISO 1000 @ f/2 @ 1/1000 sec


A Spray of Ground Cover - Santa Clara 2022
Leica M10 Monochrom + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 v2
ISO 1600 @ f/11 @ 1/60
Orange filter


Civic Plaza Building 1 - Santa Clara 2022
Leica M10 Monochrom + Summilux 35mm f/1.4
ISO 160 @ f/2.8 @ 1/125


Surprised - Sunnyvale 2015
Leica M-P + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 (v2)
ISO 200 @ f/2 @ 1/90

It is without a doubt my favorite 35mm lens of all the many 35mm lenses I've owned and used over the past 50+ years. I will not part with it until I part with Time itself. 😉

G
 
I've had both the version 3 and 4 and in the end I missed using the version 3, there wasn't much difference between both of them, I remember Jim Lager
telling me they did something by the rear mount of the version 4 to reinforce it but I don't remember what it was sorry.
 
Thank you all for your answers!
Godfrey: thank you for posting these images, because these show pretty much the problem i had with my v2 Summicron. Some images turn out really nice and contrasty, others do have pretty strong glowing edges and highlights like your first photo. I know some people like this but i really do not like this at all.
Since I'm shooting a lot of family stuff indoors i need a fast lens so stopping down to f4 or f5.6 where the glow disappears is often not possible.

I've ordered a v3 Summicron that i can return within a month. My plan is to keep it if i like the characteristics of the lens.
I'm gonna keep you updated 🙂
 
My V4 is definitely sharp in the centre at F2, I think there is a really lovely look to the photos I have captured with the lens over the years and I love it. It is pretty flimsy though and I recently had mine overhauled partly due to the hood being misaligned but also due to the focus action becoming very loose. It feels good again now but it is not a robust lens by any stretch.

If I had to buy it at today's prices I am not sure I would, instead I would look at a 40mm Summicron-C or the Minolta equivalent. Those lenses have a very similar design and look to the V4 but they are better built. The downside is obviously the slightly shorter focal length and the minimum focus distance of 80cm
.
 
optical said:
Thank you all for your answers!
Godfrey: thank you for posting these images, because these show pretty much the problem i had with my v2 Summicron. Some images turn out really nice and contrasty, others do have pretty strong glowing edges and highlights like your first photo. I know some people like this but i really do not like this at all.
Since I'm shooting a lot of family stuff indoors i need a fast lens so stopping down to f4 or f5.6 where the glow disappears is often not possible.

I've ordered a v3 Summicron that i can return within a month. My plan is to keep it if i like the characteristics of the lens.
I'm gonna keep you updated 🙂
Click to expand...

Whatever makes you happy and achieves your desires is best. I love how my 'Lux 35 v2 renders. 😀
 
optical said:
Thank you all for your answers!
Godfrey: thank you for posting these images, because these show pretty much the problem i had with my v2 Summicron. Some images turn out really nice and contrasty, others do have pretty strong glowing edges and highlights like your first photo. I know some people like this but i really do not like this at all.
Since I'm shooting a lot of family stuff indoors i need a fast lens so stopping down to f4 or f5.6 where the glow disappears is often not possible.

I've ordered a v3 Summicron that i can return within a month. My plan is to keep it if i like the characteristics of the lens.
I'm gonna keep you updated 🙂
Click to expand...

That's what I had, it's a great lens the V3 I wish I kept mine.
 
Beemermark said:
I confused the issue, V2 and V3 are identically optically with 8 elements, just different bodies. V1 had 6 elements.
Mark shooting film since about 1958
Click to expand...

Ah, no, that's not it. Summicron V1 was an 8 element lens. In the 1970's leitz issued a brochure (I'm pretty sure I still have it) that said they were now putting their emphasis on contrast. The V2 and V3 were reduced to 6 elements to reduce the number of glass to air surfaces, for that reason. The V1 has higher resolution, while images from the V2 & V3 can appear sharper, owing to their greater contrast. Later, they settled on 7 elements as a happy medium.
 
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