Al Kaplan
Veteran
I've always used the rule of thumb to discard the fixer when it takes twice as long to clear as fresh fixer. I have perfectly good negatives nearly fifty years old! (Tom is just a kid.)
400 Tri-X in D76
- Thread starter JeremyLangford
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Both of my rolls turned out good although they are way higher contrast than I expected them to be when shot at box speed. And there is definitely a pretty major purple cast. But some of you guys have already told me that this is normal with Kodak films.
I am going to make contact sheets tomorrow.
I am going to make contact sheets tomorrow.
dfoo
Well-known
As long as you have shadow detail contrast is good, especially if printing in the darkroom.
venchka
Veteran
Pre-soak for a few minutes. Washes the purple right out. Test for personal E.I. There are books and web articles to tell you how to do it. Then test for personal developing time. the same books & articles can tell you how to do that too. Your agitation may be boosting contrast a bit. Or you overdeloped. Underexpose (box speed) and overdevelop is the classic Zone System Contrast Boosting scheme.
Your teacher should be mentioning some of this.
Your teacher should be mentioning some of this.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
It's funny you should say that. My teacher has mentioned not one single thing like this. The only thing she did was write up on the board the different times for developing, stop bath, and fixing. After getting so much information from this forum, I probably know more than her now.
venchka
Veteran
Careful Jermey. It's one thing to know more than the teacher. Quite another to keep that fact a secret.
We need more input. Dilution? Temp.? Time? Agitation?
We need more input. Dilution? Temp.? Time? Agitation?
Chris101
summicronia
Hey Jeremy, invite your teacher here!
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Shes also terrible with computers
venchka
Veteran
Inversion may be the best agititation. But you don't have to shake it. Or turn the tank over every 30 seconds.
Personally, I'm in love with with continuous agitation in a Jobo tank on a Uniroller motor base. that's beyond Jeremy's scope of work right now.
Personally, I'm in love with with continuous agitation in a Jobo tank on a Uniroller motor base. that's beyond Jeremy's scope of work right now.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I guess she validates that old saying "Those who can, do! Those who can't, teach!". Be patient with her. She'll appreciate it.
venchka
Veteran
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I have no idea about the temperature. I'll use a thermometer next time. The d-76 developer was diluted 1:1. I developed for 10 minutes, stop bath for 30 seconds, fixed for 6.5 minutes, HCA for 2 minutes, and washed for 5 minutes. I can't remeber the agitation details exactly. But I am very happy with how the negatives turned out.
40oz
...
Your teacher probably didn't mention it because she is probably trained to teach beginning photography students, not educate a newb 🙂
Too much info right away makes it difficult to concentrate on the important factors. In this case, it sounds like she gave the class all the info needed to get the job done. I'm not sure that discussion of all the variables in film processing and how they affect the negative belongs in an high school photo class. Especially not before developing a single roll.
Also, there are widely varying opinions on the "proper" way to process traditional B&W. It's almost like superstition at some point, where some people find huge importance in things most other people ignore. And the thing is that everyone can be right. Some people might consider agitation hugely important to the final image, and in their workflow and criteria, it may be. Someone else might think agitation never seemed to be an issue, but finding the "best" dev time/temp becomes an obsessive pursuit.
If you talk to all these people, you'd get the idea that the possiblility of getting one properly exposed and developed frame is akin to winning the lottery for someone starting. When actually all these people have long ago achieved "getting things right" and are now pursuing their personal vision of perfection (if not just being OCD about things 🙂 ).
If you keep it simple and consistent you'll see success as well as be in a good place to begin altering variables and actually noticing any effect.
MikeL
Go Fish
Temperature can be important with some developers. Here's my understanding:
The process by which the developer gets to the silver halide crystals is diffusion through the gelatin. The diffusion gradient is influenced by the concentration of your developer and it's concentration next to the outer layer. If you agitate more, you are maintaining a high concentration next to the outer layer and a potentially steep diffusion gradient (if depletion in the gelatin is high).
Temperature can influence the reaction rate (reduction of silver halide crystals) and also lead to a steep diffusion gradient (especially if a sufficient concentration is maintained near the outer layer). Your local water chemistry can also play a role in this.
In short, for a given film type (e.g. Tri x) you have four potential variables influencing your results- developer kind and concentration, maintenance of the concentration at the outer layer (agitation), temperature (reaction rate), and local water chemistry. With shorter development times, you'll need to control each 4, more. With some development methods you don't need to worry about one or more.
venchka
Veteran
Repeatable Results
Repeatable Results
Jeremy,
At this stage in the learning process, two things are critical: your methods need to be consistant and repeatable. By not recording the temperature, you can't repeat your results. Before I get flamed, the actual temperature isn't critical. What is important is the relationship between temperature and time. Suppose in this exercise, the temp. of Jeremy's 1:1 D-76 was 70°F and he sloshed the film around (unexplained agitation plan) for 10 minutes. Next week Jeremy mixes up another batch of D-76 1:1 and sloshes his Tri-X around for 10 minutes. The negatives are too thin to print. WHAT HAPPENED? Oh, the D-76 was 65°F. DUH! Week 3 finds Jeremy with negatives the density of cardboard. D-76 1:1 at 75°F. Catch my drift?
Sorry, Jeremy, but I would give you very low marks for this first developing exercise. In this thread or other threads several people have said take good notes. Write everything down. Refer to your notes. Frankly, when I learned how to do all of this the idea of not using a thermometer for the developer never entered my mind. I guess my chemistry lab experience taught me a good habit or two.
One more time, the Ilford Time-Temperature Conversion Chart. Print it. Have it in the darkroom. Use it.
Ilford Time-Temp Chart
Repeatable Results
Jeremy,
At this stage in the learning process, two things are critical: your methods need to be consistant and repeatable. By not recording the temperature, you can't repeat your results. Before I get flamed, the actual temperature isn't critical. What is important is the relationship between temperature and time. Suppose in this exercise, the temp. of Jeremy's 1:1 D-76 was 70°F and he sloshed the film around (unexplained agitation plan) for 10 minutes. Next week Jeremy mixes up another batch of D-76 1:1 and sloshes his Tri-X around for 10 minutes. The negatives are too thin to print. WHAT HAPPENED? Oh, the D-76 was 65°F. DUH! Week 3 finds Jeremy with negatives the density of cardboard. D-76 1:1 at 75°F. Catch my drift?
Sorry, Jeremy, but I would give you very low marks for this first developing exercise. In this thread or other threads several people have said take good notes. Write everything down. Refer to your notes. Frankly, when I learned how to do all of this the idea of not using a thermometer for the developer never entered my mind. I guess my chemistry lab experience taught me a good habit or two.
One more time, the Ilford Time-Temperature Conversion Chart. Print it. Have it in the darkroom. Use it.
Ilford Time-Temp Chart
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
If only my teacher was this harsh
venchka
Veteran
I was nice
I was nice
Harsh? I thought I was on my best behavior. Objective. Honest. Helpful even.
Wait till you see Harsh! 😱 😎
Don't worry. I try very hard not to do Harsh.
I was nice
Harsh? I thought I was on my best behavior. Objective. Honest. Helpful even.
Wait till you see Harsh! 😱 😎
Don't worry. I try very hard not to do Harsh.
colker
Well-known
teh stop bath does 2 things for me: it prevents the fixer from conatmination. it immediately stops developing.
saving the fixer is worth it although smelling stop baths for years ended up Sc$%^&* up slightly my olfatory sense.
venchka
Veteran
All the more reason to use plain tap water at the same temp. as the developer.
