New York 5 Pontz teardown approval

[kbg32]

Yes John, there still is some authenticity, but not like it was. I guess every generation that lives here can say that. NYC is in a lot of ways a rich man's town. The things that made it fun and enjoyable, dangerous too, to us regular Joes are disappearing quite steadily - CGGBs, King Tuts Wah Wah Hut, the old Times Square, the Academy of Music, the Fillmore East, etc., etc..........................

 

[kbg32]

Artists always lived on the fringe in rather unsettled areas. Back in the 70's Soho was once a place where only homeless lived and then artists moved in because they could rent a 2,000 square foot loft without any "fixtures" (meaning bathroom or kitchen) for about $200.00 a month. Cheap rent for a lot of space was the draw.

My concern is that the fringe is becoming extinct in New York. It seems like the only bad neighborhood left in Madhattan is East Harlem where I live now and it's a rather small neighborhood.

Cal

Hey Cal, I get a good shoot out now and then in my neck of the woods, West Harlem.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Not a New Yorker, but Cal's comments remind me of "New York, I Love You But You're Bringing Me Down" by LCD Soundsystem.

Been to NYC 3 times. Last time I was in NYC, I stayed in Williamsburg. It was fine, but it just felt like an overpriced Chicago. My $.02

 

[Calzone]

Hey Cal, I get a good shoot out now and then in my neck of the woods, West Harlem.

Keith,

John and I shoot over there a lot. I also have met quite a few people there where I have done street portraits.

About two decades ago I remember when Mornigside Park was a mugger's alley, and taking those steps down the cliff either was foolish or a death wish because down at park level and just east of the park was a literal no-man's-land that was a place that was uninhabited and almost all the buildings were bordered up.

The contrast of Columbia University at the top of the cliff and the park below drew stark contrast of have and have nots.

Cal

 

[zauhar]

Cal, as a youngster it was my dream to live in NYC or SF. I have seen both places steadily transformed, so that large portions resemble shopping malls. They have been ruined by the financial types (although in SF it's also Silicon Valley). Maybe the crime rate needs to rise?

All things considered I'd rather be in Philadelphia.

Randy

P.S. Any timeline on the Five Points demo?

EDIT: I should note that my experiences of NYC range from the early 80's to the present, SF is restricted to a few visits. I have never lived in either city.

 

[Calzone]

Cal, as a youngster it was my dream to live in NYC or SF. I have seen both places steadily transformed, so that large portions resemble shopping malls. They have been ruined by the financial types (although in SF it's also Silicon Valley). Maybe the crime rate needs to rise?

All things considered I'd rather be in Philadelphia.

Randy

P.S. Any timeline on the Five Points demo?

Randy,

Rumor on the street is as early as later this year. This is a 400 million dollar redevelopment project; out of the 1000 units 210 units will be "affordable" housing, up from the earlier proposed 75 units. About 10,000 square feet of wall space, most of it facing Davis Street will be designated for aerosol art.

I use to live a few blocks away from 5 Pontz, near the Citigroup skyscraper, in a run down row house facing the elevated tracks for the 7 train. I moved out almost 2 years ago and the advance of redevelopment surprises me. If you look at the changes in zoning around Court Square and Queens Plaza expect a skyline of skyscrapers. This skyline already grew signifigantly in the less than two years I've been gone.

I'm thinking that the "proposed" redevelopment of the Sunnyside Yards might happen sooner than I thought earlier.

I'm afraid that a lot of the culture of 5 Pontz will be lost. A lot of Hip-Hop events, weekend parties in the summer, and other events happened weekly there. It was a cultural center where it drew international attention and people from all over the world. To me this is quite a loss.

Cal

 

[Range-rover]

I can add to this being a New Yorker all my life, there is a change it's like their making
it for the rich and tourist. Take Chinatown, back in the 70's and 80's you could get
anything you wanted down there, electronic parts, metal scraps, anything but now
there trying to make it more like was said above more touristy. there's one guy left
he's at 269 electronics and has parts that I need from time to time. Yea that's what
New York needs more highline parks, and blah blah blah

 

[jsrockit]

So, when are you guys moving out of NYC? 😉

 

[Calzone]

So, when are you guys moving out of NYC? 😉

John,

It's getting to the point where its not about moving out, but being forced out. Do you think I like being displaced like a homeless person? Is New York getting to be more and more like the Hamptons? I love New York, but I may have no choice.

In the late seventies I was building out a 3,000 square foot loft for my mentor on Broome Street in SoHo. I had the keys to the place while he was gone all summer. I know first hand how artists settled into areas that were undesirable to live and how gentrification began. SoHo once was an empty vacant place where only the homeless lived on the street. Artists who lived in lofts defied commercial zoning laws and had to fight to protect their homes. Artist were the catalyst for redevelopment of downtown.

I was forced out of Greenpoint because of the housing bubble; I was forced to move again from the Southside of Williamsburg from my loft because of construction dangers, mice infestation and noise when they started building condos next door in a once vacant lot due to gentrification and redevelopment. Oh I forgot the rent increase.

When I lived in Williamsburg on the Southside not only did I hear gunshots of someone target practicing emptying a full magizine when in my loft, I also found an empty 45 shell on the sidewalk right outside my building. When I lived in Greenpoint wandering towards the BQE I saw a stop sign near a junk yard that was targeted by a shotgun blast. Also a flock of dead pigeons littered the street as well as about a box of 12 gauge shotgun shells.

The lower Eastside was first gentified by artists, not hipsters or college students attending NYU. We moved into areas where regular people did not want to live where there was crime, drugs and a constant danger. We took the risks so we could have the lifestyle to afford to make art, but at this point NYC is getting to the point where the rich and tourist are much more important than the artists and the culture we make and create.

I have a sense of history here because I was part of the process. Not sure if others can understand.

Cal

 

[Range-rover]

it's true, it's getting real expensive to live here, but soon or later it we'll get expensive
elsewhere as well, not just New York. Don't worry Cal I understand it's like little pieces
of your life are slipping and disappearing which sucks! Plus I'm missing Comicon this
year.

Range

 

[jsrockit]

John,

It's getting to the point where its not about moving out, but being forced out. Do you think I like being displaced like a homeless person? Is New York getting to be more and more like the Hamptons? I love New York, but I may have no choice.

Cal, you are far from being homeless... your household income is double (almost triple) the average for NYC.

 

[Calzone]

Cal, you are far from being homeless... your household income is double (almost triple) the average for NYC.

John,

That was not always the case, and my current affluence is only pretty recent. Prior to 2007 I did not own any Leicas and now I own 5. It was only in 2004 that I began to game the market and made my killing when oil peaked.

I use the term displaced because as a product of gentrification and redevelopment I personally have been displaced (forced moves) numerous times. Also know that I have lived a rather edgy life, and although never living on the street, I have been close to being homeless.

Back in the seventies when I lived in Soho that one summer it was because of the kindness of a professor/mentor from art school that kept me off the street. This man saw a lot of talent in me, he gave me work to do (artist assistant), and in a way this friend saved my life. Because of a disrupted life and other factors of just trying to stay alive I never became the artist that Ed wanted me to become, and I feel I disappointed him.

Let's just say my edge and you edge is different. 🙂

Cal

 

[jsrockit]

I give up guys. I'm sorry your NYC no longer exists. I'm going to enjoy it now for what it is.

 

[stompyq]

Having never seen the city beyond the last few years I can't comment on how it was 20 years ago. I don't think I have a problem with the place getting safer. One thing I have noticed is that the place changes amazingly fast compared to every other city I've ever lived in. It's a shame about 5 pointz. No more dance battles or wacky street art. I have a feeling though that it will resurface somewhere else.

And Range I think the real Chinatown is now in flushing just like the real little Italy is in the bronx

 

[Calzone]

Having never seen the city beyond the last few years I can't comment on how it was 20 years ago. I don't think I have a problem with the place getting safer. One thing I have noticed is that the place changes amazingly fast compared to every other city I've ever lived in. It's a shame about 5 pointz. No more dance battles or wacky street art. I have a feeling though that it will resurface somewhere else.

And Range I think the real Chinatown is now in flushing just like the real little Italy is in the bronx

Pro-Mone,

I think you hit on something that makes a strong point and that is the rate of change in New York. It is startling.

Perhaps my bringing up the grittier aspects is misplaced. New York surely is a very dynamic city, and Bernice Abbot surely had wisdom to shoot a body of work about a "Changing New York."

Cal

 

[stompyq]

Pro-Mone,

I think you hit on something that makes a strong point and that is the rate of change in New York. It is startling.

Perhaps my bringing up the grittier aspects is misplaced. New York surely is a very dynamic city, and Bernice Abbot surely had wisdom to shoot a body of work about a "Changing New York."

Cal

Which is why I think John's storefront series is going to be very interesting in a couple of years. Even if it's not as interesting now as his garbage series😀

 

[kbg32]

So, when are you guys moving out of NYC? 😉

I think about it lately because I am a father of a school aged child. NYC does not make it easy for a parent to send their kids to a good public school. One has to apply and get on a wait list. The schools vary wildly in quality. My wife and I do not make the kind of money it takes to send our son to a private school, especially when they cost 25K+ a year, with additional expenses. Ridiculous for a 4 year old!

 

[jsrockit]

I think about it lately because I am a father of a school aged child. NYC does not make it easy for a parent to send their kids to a good public school. One has to apply and get on a wait list. The schools vary wildly in quality. My wife and I do not make the kind of money it takes to send our son to a private school, especially when they cost 25K+ a year, with additional expenses. Ridiculous for a 4 year old!

True Keith... that can't be easy. I'll have to deal with that at a later date as well.

 

[jsrockit]

Which is why I think John's storefront series is going to be very interesting in a couple of years.

Well, I've always talked about that with you guys...

 

[Calzone]

Which is why I think John's storefront series is going to be very interesting in a couple of years. Even if it's not as interesting now as his garbage series😀

Pro-Mone,

I agree. It is a great time to shoot New York. The changes as of late seem to be more rapid. In less than two years the LIC skyline has changed since I lived there and it is emerging into something that is almost like building the Empire State Building in a year. Back in the 1930's it was said that the steel from Pittsburg was still warm when it arrived in Manhattan. I'm being litteral here because the Empire State Building was erected in about a year.

BTW a high tech center is being developed on Roosevelt Island to poach the concentration of tech workers from Silicone Valley. If you stay in New York long enough I think you will eventually get displaced.

In the even bigger picture think of when the Second Avenue subway comes on line. John might get displaced from the UES unwillingly. Then there's the Hudson Yards, an extension of the 7 train to the far Westside, and connecting the LIRR to the Eastside is another project. None of these are small projects and one can easily see that the proposed covering over Sunnyside Yards as being inevidable.

Use to be NYC was pegged at around 8 million people for decades. Use to be 8.2 million was our population, but currently there are 8.4 million inhabitants. This is a very recent change. Pretty easy to see NYC being 9-10 million one day in the future. Just look at the zoning changes.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Queens South project where the amount of luxury housing will double along the LIC waterfront. Right now they are adding sewers and building out the infrastructure before building the buildings.

Cal