New York 5 Pontz teardown approval

Calzone said:
In the even bigger picture think of when the Second Avenue subway comes on line. John might get displaced from the UES unwillingly.
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Nah, I'm willing... this is my last year in that Neighborhood. No doubt though that the subway will make everything around it more expensive.

I think the only way not to get displaced is to own. I think the difference here is that I'm not sentimental about inanimate objects. Things change and memories are enough for me.

You guys know that I just rid of things without any care... it's all just stuff. People matter more.
 
kbg32 said:
I think about it lately because I am a father of a school aged child. NYC does not make it easy for a parent to send their kids to a good public school. One has to apply and get on a wait list. The schools vary wildly in quality. My wife and I do not make the kind of money it takes to send our son to a private school, especially when they cost 25K+ a year, with additional expenses. Ridiculous for a 4 year old!
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Keith,

Then there's retirement... I would love to be able to stay, not own a car, and just walk around, but I don't see how this can be sustained.

I only remember your son as almost a toddler. The time goes fast.

Cal
 
stompyq said:
Having never seen the city beyond the last few years I can't comment on how it was 20 years ago. I don't think I have a problem with the place getting safer. One thing I have noticed is that the place changes amazingly fast compared to every other city I've ever lived in. It's a shame about 5 pointz. No more dance battles or wacky street art. I have a feeling though that it will resurface somewhere else.

And Range I think the real Chinatown is now in flushing just like the real little Italy is in the bronx
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Wow, I never been out there but sounds good, and I'm going to little Italy
on Sunday, for lunch at Mario's, and it's changing there as well slowly but
changing. Cal so far the F3 is working out fine, ah film cameras to hold
onto our past a little longer.

Range
 
kbg32 said:
Little Italy is certainly "little" now! So much is gone! Including the wiseguys.
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Keith,

Little Italy kinda got annexed by Chinatown. Now the fastest growing Asian community no longer is Flushing or Jackson Heights: the fastest growing Asian neighborhood in the city right now is East Harlem where I live; the reason: cheap housing. Earlier this year in the summer in East Harlem there was a series of connected hate crimes where immigrant Chinese were specifically targeted by one individual. Basically assault and robbery that was racially motivated. A lone individual was arrested and responsible for all these attacks.

Back in the late seventies Chinese gang members like the Ghost Shadows and the Flying Dragons were collectively known as the "Long Hairs." Back then I also had long hair to basically spite my father who hated my nipple length Long Island big hair.

During the time I was living in SoHo ( late 70"s) I once went into Chinatown to get some takeout for lunch, there was a line but the owner came out from behind the counter and asked me directly in English, "What do you want," and I said, "A quart of roast pork fried rice."

The owner scurried into the back and returned with my order neglecting the other customers that were in front of me. When I went to pay him, he seemed confused, and then I realized that the owner had mistaken me for a Chinese gang member because of my long hair.

Later in the early eighty's the Chinese gangs changed their image and wore three piece suits and 38's.
 
Calzone said:
During the time I was living in SoHo ( late 70"s) I once went into Chinatown to get some takeout for lunch, there was a line but the owner came out from behind the counter and asked me directly in English, "What do you want," and I said, "A quart of roast pork fried rice."

The owner scurried into the back and returned with my order neglecting the other customers that were in front of me. When I went to pay him, he seemed confused, and then I realized that the owner had mistaken me for a Chinese gang member because of my long hair.
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That's too funny... and sad for the owner. Did you end up paying?
 
jsrockit said:
That's too funny... and sad for the owner. Did you end up paying?
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John,

Of course I paid. The old guy had this sad confused look that my dad had on all the time. I was really mean to my dad though. Only pretty recently did I figure out that out of my dad's five kids that I was his favorite. This is unusual because usually it is the oldest son in a traditional Chinese family that is heavily favored, yet I was the second youngest.

It seems that parents really love the most the kid that they should really hate. LOL. Growing up I was an angry disturbed kid and it seems because my dad worried about me the most, that he thought of me all the time. He really hated my long hair.

BTW Chinatown back in seventies and early 80's was a place where it was a place where a lot of free martial arts street fighting happened. I once saw this thirteen year old Kung-Fu'ed a twenty year old man. The fight lasted about two blinks of an eye. Chinatown was a very rough and tumble place back then.

Cal
 
JMQ said:
I'll address you as Consigliere Cal from now on.
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Jean-Marc,

After the end of the Vietnam War and the normalization of relations with China is when there was an influx of Vietnamese. Because of coming from a war-zone the turf wars in Chinatown advanced into mucho severe street violence. The violence was pretty bad, and Chinatown was a very real underworld with its own rules. NYPD had no effect. No weapons needed, mostly hand to hand combat early on and later guns which made it worse.

Cal
 
jsrockit said:
Nah, I'm willing... this is my last year in that Neighborhood. No doubt though that the subway will make everything around it more expensive.

I think the only way not to get displaced is to own. I think the difference here is that I'm not sentimental about inanimate objects. Things change and memories are enough for me.

You guys know that I just rid of things without any care... it's all just stuff. People matter more.
Click to expand...

Things are the product of people, they make up the human environment inhabited by people, and they act back upon their creators.

It is very important to the ruling elite to remake the environment. By eliminating the things of the past, you also remove the living presence of the past, and the values that were alive then.

Things matter.

Randy
 
Randy, I can appreciate that for sure. However, some things are out of my control. I've learned to let go and enjoy myself instead I guess I'm trying to say. Life is full of heartbreak if you allow it to be.
 
zauhar said:
Things are the product of people, they make up the human environment inhabited by people, and they act back upon their creators.

It is very important to the ruling elite to remake the environment. By eliminating the things of the past, you also remove the living presence of the past, and the values that were alive then.

Things matter.

Randy
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Randy,

Strong words that I agree with.

Also know that inanimate objects retain clues to a past, while new creations to me lack the same profound character. To me my cameras through use, wear and tare denote a passage of time that gives these inanimate objects a soul. They, overtime, become an extension of oneself and one's identity.

A stronger metaphor is say a musical instrument that gets better with age and use. In a way a vintage instrument becomes a repository for all the music that was played on it. Not all old instruments have this "mojo" though, but the ones that were treasured and loved truely stand out that do.

Cal
 
Just heard on the news the Plaza hotel is suing the city of New York for putting those
lovely scenic bike racks in front of the hotel, there's something about change.

Range
 
A thread about 5Ptz and no pcitures ?
Come on folks show some of the art that will be gone soon enough ...



A slightly different angle of view,
Citi bank, the money looming over the art :
 
Well you are too new period. 😀

But seriously the '70s and even the '80s in lower manhattan was a convergence which will never happen again. Recession, exodus of business, a city which became an instant mecca for thousands of artists who moved below Canal Street.

I rented a loft on Warren street, 10,000 square feet on two floors, for $600 a month, for ten years, with minor increases. I tell people that and they look at me like I am in a delusion. Huge buildings on Broad street were completely empty, where art shows were held. I could live like a slacker, work a week to pay rent, and make art the rest of the time. Artists really could be in a gallery, the mega galleries of Chelsea had not appeared -- I had a 57th street gallery.

It's gone now, replaced by the tiny studios in Bushwick -- hard to remember almost.
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Wow. Time machine, anybody? Tell me more.
 
ivanuskokovic said:
Wow. Time machine, anybody? Tell me more.
Click to expand...

In 1975 NYC came close to being like Detroit is today: meaning bankrupt. White flight meant the many of the middle class left for the suburbs. President Ford told NYC to "Drop dead" when they asked the federal government for a bailout. Eventually President Ford's advisors said that he had to bail out New York or else other cities would follow.

Double digit inflation and double digit unemployment caused by OPEC and rising energy costs caused the largest economic decline since the Great Depression. I graduated high school in 1976 and even getting a job at minimum wage was hard.

NYPD bascically ineffective. Drugs were kinda legalized because police policy was to allow drugs to be sold openly in the street in designated areas. Same somewhat for prostitution and Times Square was very different than today. Street walkers were on East 85th Street on the UES, and back then that marked the boundry of the UES.

There were garbage strikes and walls of garbage lined the sidewalks. Entire blocks in the South Bronx were let to burn to the ground by the fire department: the buildings were abandoned anyway. Street fighting was prevalent. If you didn't like someone or if someone gave you the finger you simply beat the hell out of them on the spot. The most dangerous job in NYC back in the seventies was not being a cop or fireman, but being a cab driver because there was a very high probability of being robbed or killed. There was an overall general sense of lawlessness, but also a great amount of freedom, especially if you were a rough and tumble street fighter. Back in 1978 I was a cab driver. Back then most cab drivers were white. LOL.

Cal
 
It was a deep recession, I remember interest rates hitting 15%, money was so tight. But when one is young, with no family to support, recessions don't really matter much. In 1975 I could eat a nice breakfast for a buck, so life was good. There were drawbacks, I lived in my first loft with no heat for a winter -- but the landlord was very nice and did not collect rent, and worked hard to get permits to install new gas. it seemed for a moment people were not so greedy.
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I for one have no trouble believing that you had a landlord in 1975 who would forego the rent while getting the gas to work. Yes, Virginia, people really were less greedy in 1975.

In fact, people tend to deceive themselves to make the current state of things seem better : "People aren't more greedy today, they were always that way!". OR - "There's no global warming! It was always 75 in the middle of October!"

Speaking of 'where can artists live?' I am sure you are way ahead of me on this story:

http://artfcity.com/2013/10/18/indu...-out-of-studios-then-launches-giant-art-show/

Synopsis: commercial developer pushes artists out of studio space with escalating rents, then uses said space to host a show to - support struggling artists.

The evictees ought to burn the joint down.

Randy
 
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