New York 5 Pontz teardown approval

Calzone said:
In 1975 NYC came close to being like Detroit is today: meaning bankrupt. White flight meant the many of the middle class left for the suburbs. President Ford told NYC to "Drop dead" when they asked the federal government for a bailout. Eventually President Ford's advisors said that he had to bail out New York or else other cities would follow.

Double digit inflation and double digit unemployment caused by OPEC and rising energy costs caused the largest economic decline since the Great Depression. I graduated high school in 1976 and even getting a job at minimum wage was hard.

NYPD bascically ineffective. Drugs were kinda legalized because police policy was to allow drugs to be sold openly in the street in designated areas. Same somewhat for prostitution and Times Square was very different than today. Street walkers were on East 85th Street on the UES, and back then that marked the boundry of the UES.

There were garbage strikes and walls of garbage lined the sidewalks. Entire blocks in the South Bronx were let to burn to the ground by the fire department: the buildings were abandoned anyway. Street fighting was prevalent. If you didn't like someone or if someone gave you the finger you simply beat the hell out of them on the spot. The most dangerous job in NYC back in the seventies was not being a cop or fireman, but being a cab driver because there was a very high probability of being robbed or killed. There was an overall general sense of lawlessness, but also a great amount of freedom, especially if you were a rough and tumble street fighter. Back in 1978 I was a cab driver. Back then most cab drivers were white. LOL.

Cal
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Cal, I also agree that not only were people less greedy in 1975, they were more violent too!

There has been a weird move in recent times - people are less physically violent, but more emotionally violent. I have commented on that before, but I have to say that is the strangest and most troubling aspect of life today. Perhaps it's a rerun - I picture the crowds at the last brutal circuses at the fall of Rome as a collection of cruel wimps.

Randy
 
zauhar said:
Cal, I also agree that not only were people less greedy in 1975, they were more violent too!

There has been a weird move in recent times - people are less physically violent, but more emotionally violent. I have commented on that before, but I have to say that is the strangest and most troubling aspect of life today. Perhaps it's a rerun - I picture the crowds at the last brutal circuses at the fall of Rome as a collection of cruel wimps.

Randy
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Randy,

I think in the past the violence was due to a different kind of oppression, a different culture, and a much different form of expressing anger. I feel that culturally we have become a rather large group of entitled whiners. I grew up on Long Island and a researcher discovered that people from Long Island whine five times more than the national average. Also Long Island is the largest concentration of single females in the country. I have a theory that because daughters like to remain close to their mothers, and because men like me left Long Island to leave unhappy whining people behind that this is why Long Island has become the highest concentration of single women.

Also know that the possibility of getting killed in Vietnam created a culture of nihilism. Me and my friends grew up knowing that we could be killed or maimed in a senseless war so we lived like we had no future. The songs from the Ramones in the early seventies summed up our lifestyle "I don't care" and "I wanna be sedated."

I had a friend who is now dead who beat the crap out of a Nassau County cop when he was perhaps 16 or 17. Tommy was getting roughed up by the cop, but Tommy threw the cop down and gave him a beating.

Twice before I was eighteen I had guns drawn on me, both times were NYPD. Once in a case of mistaken identity in the early 70's. I remember the song "Heartbreaker" from the Rolling Stones because when the cops surprised me, almost running me down, it would of been instinct to run, and I likely would of been shot just like in the song. It seems that the cops were hunting some other Asian because they left as quickly as they surprised me after warning me not to move quickly or they'll shoot. The only thing I imagine is that it was Tommy TXX from the next town. Even though I never met Tommy Txx, I knew of him because Asians were a novelty in our respective communities.

The second time the cops had there guns drawn I was in the line of fire was when a robber was standing behind me when I was working a cash register at a McDonald's in Queens. Luckily the robber had the gun laying on top of the box full of money when the cops stormed the McDonalds before there were SWAT Teams. When they yelled freeze no one listened and froze except me and the robber. If shots were fired I surely would have become ventilated. Also if the robber had the pistol in his hand I could of become a hostage.

Just earlier it was four men, two with pistols and two with rifles, and when one of the managers went after one of the robbers leaving shots were fired. Also the guy who stood behind me when the cops stormed in was the same guy who was pistol whipping the other manager because he would not open the safe.

After this robber was cuffed and was being monitored by a cop, I saw the manager who took the beating get his revenge. Hector jumped the counter and threw down his ass-sail-ent and began repeatedly kicking him in the head like a soccer ball on an open goal as the cop stood nearby watching. Eventually the cop spoke up and said, "That's enough," but the way the cop said it was like permission to give one more final kick to a handcuffed man laying on the floor.

Cal
 
Everyone has a different take on the city, depending on...
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My friend Oscar from the Southside of Williamsburg is about my age (mid 50's) told me what it was like growing up n that community. He told me about half of the guys he went to high school are now dead. Drugs and the Aids epidemic took its toll on Williamsburg and Greenpoint throughout the 70's, 80' and 90's.

Oscar has been shot five times. He told me right on South 2d Street was where NYPD allowed the local drug trade to happen right in the street by the firehouse. Truck drivers were told to never stop at the light at the exit off the BQE for Meeker Avenue because they would be held up at gunpoint while a team equipt with bolt cutters would break into the loaded tractor trailer and proceed to empty it.

Places like Greenpoint and Williamsburg not that very long ago were hell holes. Also know that there is a very interesting historical street shot of a strip club on Bedford by the subway exit. What makes the shot particularly interesting is that there is some old women wearing a house dress right near the entrance that suggests a real dive of a strip club.

The local cat women, Susan, who took care of the feral herd of cats near my loft told me that $20 dollar streetwalkers serviced truck drivers throughout the Southside not too long ago. Also in Long Island City where I lived my neighbor Jimmy told me when I moved in that street walkers patrolled right in front of my house about a decade ago.

Its pretty evident how three decades of neglect and abandonment can be changed in 15 years.

Cal
 
Directly posting in these local thread doesn't work, you have to follow the link but I agree more pictures folks.

 
So I missed my chance to see it. (My kid saw it on an NYU field trip, I never got a 'report' from her. )

Looks like the whitewashing was an act of in-your-face intimidation on the part of the new owner -may they rot in hell.

Randy
 
zauhar said:
So I missed my chance to see it. (My kid saw it on an NYU field trip, I never got a 'report' from her. )

Looks like the whitewashing was an act of in-your-face intimidation on the part of the new owner -may they rot in hell.

Randy
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Randy, all this is contrary to what I heard when I was there a few weeks ago. From what I heard there was a active court case going on against the tear down. Either the case was thrown out or something else is going on (likely mis-information on my part). Regardless I wonder how they plan to keep the building facade from getting anymore graffiti. I mean, it almost looks like the owner gave all the artists a blank canvas. You still might get a chance to go over and do some shooting
 
Calzone said:
Randy,

I think in the past the violence was due to a different kind of oppression, a different culture, and a much different form of expressing anger. I feel that culturally we have become a rather large group of entitled whiners. I grew up on Long Island and a researcher discovered that people from Long Island whine five times more than the national average. Also Long Island is the largest concentration of single females in the country. I have a theory that because daughters like to remain close to their mothers, and because men like me left Long Island to leave unhappy whining people behind that this is why Long Island has become the highest concentration of single women.

Also know that the possibility of getting killed in Vietnam created a culture of nihilism. Me and my friends grew up knowing that we could be killed or maimed in a senseless war so we lived like we had no future. The songs from the Ramones in the early seventies summed up our lifestyle "I don't care" and "I wanna be sedated."

I had a friend who is now dead who beat the crap out of a Nassau County cop when he was perhaps 16 or 17. Tommy was getting roughed up by the cop, but Tommy threw the cop down and gave him a beating.

Twice before I was eighteen I had guns drawn on me, both times were NYPD. Once in a case of mistaken identity in the early 70's. I remember the song "Heartbreaker" from the Rolling Stones because when the cops surprised me, almost running me down, it would of been instinct to run, and I likely would of been shot just like in the song. It seems that the cops were hunting some other Asian because they left as quickly as they surprised me after warning me not to move quickly or they'll shoot. The only thing I imagine is that it was Tommy TXX from the next town. Even though I never met Tommy Txx, I knew of him because Asians were a novelty in our respective communities.

The second time the cops had there guns drawn I was in the line of fire was when a robber was standing behind me when I was working a cash register at a McDonald's in Queens. Luckily the robber had the gun laying on top of the box full of money when the cops stormed the McDonalds before there were SWAT Teams. When they yelled freeze no one listened and froze except me and the robber. If shots were fired I surely would have become ventilated. Also if the robber had the pistol in his hand I could of become a hostage.

Just earlier it was four men, two with pistols and two with rifles, and when one of the managers went after one of the robbers leaving shots were fired. Also the guy who stood behind me when the cops stormed in was the same guy who was pistol whipping the other manager because he would not open the safe.

After this robber was cuffed and was being monitored by a cop, I saw the manager who took the beating get his revenge. Hector jumped the counter and threw down his ass-sail-ent and began repeatedly kicking him in the head like a soccer ball on an open goal as the cop stood nearby watching. Eventually the cop spoke up and said, "That's enough," but the way the cop said it was like permission to give one more final kick to a handcuffed man laying on the floor.

Cal
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Cal, sorry I missed this, and the latter comment as well. I just returned to this thread when I saw the photos of 5pointz on NYT.

A violent NY certainly had many downsides (very glad you didn't get shot!) but the new and improved nonviolent NY is a playground for rich people who want to evict guys like you. So which was is better? I would rather see guys like you there, and the rich chased back to their gated community.

By the way, I looked at some photos of 5pointz, looked fascinating and cool, but what was with the sign about not photographing without permission - some kind of joke?

Randy
 
stompyq said:
Randy, all this is contrary to what I heard when I was there a few weeks ago. From what I heard there was a active court case going on against the tear down. Either the case was thrown out or something else is going on (likely mis-information on my part). Regardless I wonder how they plan to keep the building facade from getting anymore graffiti. I mean, it almost looks like the owner gave all the artists a blank canvas. You still might get a chance to go over and do some shooting
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Any chance the court case is still active, and the new owner just took it upon themselves to do this? Stuff like that happens in philly all the time, must be the same there.

I better check it out after all, maybe you're right about the blank canvas!

Randy

EDIT: Now I get it, the building is not even going to be part of the new development, it's to be torn down! The only reason for the whitewash was to destroy any attempt to save the building - the f--ckr vandalized his own building to shut everyone up.
 
I don't know what's going on with New York, I heard on the news tonight that
the Howard Hughes group wants to put a skyscraper up in the of South Street
Sea Port. What the!

Bob
 
zauhar said:
By the way, I looked at some photos of 5pointz, looked fascinating and cool, but what was with the sign about not photographing without permission - some kind of joke?

Randy
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Randy,

If you are doing still photography there usually is no hassle, but because of copyright agreements with artists and because the location can be exploited by video and movie film crews readily they would like to control and collect fees for moving images.

A while back I set up a shoot with a model who was a hip-hop artist/performer and it didn't take long to get a cease and desist in a professional manner.

Charging fees covers some of their overhead.

Cal
 
I was in New York last month for a week, my first visit since '71. I did think that the city is a sort of Disney or Vegas re-imagining of NYC. The intersting thing to me was how much New Yorkers seem to have changed over the decades. The gruff edge seems to be mostly gone. They reminded me of folks I meet here in the Bay Area. Very friendly and helpful.
 
Vics said:
I was in New York last month for a week, my first visit since '71. I did think that the city is a sort of Disney or Vegas re-imagining of NYC. The intersting thing to me was how much New Yorkers seem to have changed over the decades. The gruff edge seems to be mostly gone. They reminded me of folks I meet here in the Bay Area. Very friendly and helpful.
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Vic,

There's still some gruffyness still left, but overall it seems rather sanitized.

If you go to NYC.gov and look at all the infrastructure projects: Queens South; 7 Train extenstion to the Westside; LIRR to Grand Central; Hudson Yards; 2d Avenue Subway... it seems that NYC population in perhaps a decade will be 9 million people. I was surprised by the recent jump from 8.2 million to 8.4 million.

If they cover over Sunnyside Yards, which I believe will eventually happen (look at all the infrastructure buildup that I mentioned above and see the big-big picture), I think you can add/fit another million people. Not hard to imagine NYC being 9-10 million people in about a decade or a little more.

Cal
 
Vics said:
I was in New York last month for a week, my first visit since '71. I did think that the city is a sort of Disney or Vegas re-imagining of NYC. The intersting thing to me was how much New Yorkers seem to have changed over the decades. The gruff edge seems to be mostly gone. They reminded me of folks I meet here in the Bay Area. Very friendly and helpful.
Click to expand...

That's why I lost my love for NYC - even in the 80s I would have loved to live there, but over the years it becomes more and more an enormous shopping mall, and the people who give it life are being pushed out.

I have to say my daughter loves being there, and I will not say anything to discourage her enthusiasm - I am just a grade B guy, but she is an A+ girl, and I hope she belongs there.

Randy
 
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