50mm Summilux ASPH - first short walk in the park to test

[Erik van Straten]

Marty Freakscene: "Older lenses are less sharp and have less resolution."

Try this one, Marty ...

Summilux 1.4/50mm black paint * | A00853

Sought-after, original black paint Summilux in beautiful condition, optics with only light cleaning marks, with a keeper.

www.leitz-auction.com

 

[Freakscene]

Marty Freakscene: "Older lenses are less sharp and have less resolution."

Try this one, Marty ...

Summilux 1.4/50mm black paint * | A00853

Sought-after, original black paint Summilux in beautiful condition, optics with only light cleaning marks, with a keeper.

www.leitz-auction.com

I have a black paint v1 Summilux Erik, in fact I have two - one is ltm, one is M mount.

The 40 lp/mm track on the mtf of the Summilux ASPH is very good - the v1 Summilux hardly resolves the 40 lp/mm spatial frequency at all. They are not even in the same ball park. The v1 also flares much more with direct light sources both in the field and just out of the field.

That lens is nowhere near as sharp, flare resistant, flat of field or useful for my purposes.

I must also point out that although I am fairly indifferent to cost, I am not taking a €30,000 lens any of the places I photograph. It’s actually more that if those lenses got damaged I doubt I could replace them. My M mount v1, apart from some age related changes in paint colour, looks hardly different than it did the day in 1960 when it left the factory.

Marty

 

[sojournerphoto]

All lenses have problems, and I push my lenses pretty hard a lot of the time. But I have tried virtually every Leica M mount 50mm lens and the 50/1.4 asph is the best for my purposes. Older lenses are less sharp and have less resolution. Mostly they flare more too, although a lot of that depends on whether you use film or digital. The 50/1 Noctilux flares a lot less on film, but was not designed to manage reflections back from the sensor and can flare a lot on digital.

View attachment 4838971

One other comment I would make is that older lenses exert a greater influence on the photo. I don’t want ‘character’ I just want to show the scenes I photograph with as little fuss as possible. The newer the better for me.

Great picture Marty

 

[Jonathan R]

When I got this lens about ten years ago I took a very short walk in the park of just a few hundred feet down a little path and back in order to test it. I was surprised by the nice reception I received from most of the people I encountered.

In the order taken. All natural light. M240
L1003139 by Brusby, on Flickr

L1003141 by Brusby, on Flickr

L1003143 by Brusby, on Flickr

The light and colours in these photos are gorgeous!

 

[Erik van Straten]

All lenses have problems, and I push my lenses pretty hard a lot of the time. But I have tried virtually every Leica M mount 50mm lens and the 50/1.4 asph is the best for my purposes. Older lenses are less sharp and have less resolution. Mostly they flare more too, although a lot of that depends on whether you use film or digital. The 50/1 Noctilux flares a lot less on film, but was not designed to manage reflections back from the sensor and can flare a lot on digital.

View attachment 4838971

One other comment I would make is that older lenses exert a greater influence on the photo. I don’t want ‘character’ I just want to show the scenes I photograph with as little fuss as possible. The newer the better for me.

I understand that but there is always the "bokeh".

 

[Freakscene]

I understand that but there is always the "bokeh".

One way to control bokeh or the rendition of the out of focus area is to pick your background. Sometimes you can’t.



Good bokeh background.



Bad bokeh background. These are both 50mm f1.4 ASPH v1, taken today - 8 June 2024.

I also place more importance on the character of the transition from in to out of focus than the character of the blur. New style lenses do much better with that. Also, not that it is very important for this forum, but the new lenses for mirrorless cameras from Canon, Sony, Nikon and Sigma have a new design emphasis on good bokeh and the transition from in-focus to out of focus. Maybe Panasonic too, but I haven’t used any of their lenses.

The only 50mm lens that fits a Leica M and has truly exceptional bokeh is the 5cm Cooke Amotal from the Bell and Howell Foton. For normal use it has a lot of problems, including that hard use wears them out because they were fairly shoddily adapted to Leica thread mounts and are made of soft metal.

For now, for me, the 50mm f1.4 ASPH is the best normal lens. About the only thing I could see that would improve it markedly is if they could change the rendering to have the black and white tonality map out like it does on the 28mm Summilux, which, once you get the exposure right, seems to make photos that need remarkably little tonal manipulation.

I could write about M mount 50 mm lenses for a week, but I’ll probably leave it there.

Marty

 

[sojournerphoto]

…

I could write about M mount 50 mm lenses for a week, but I’ll probably leave it there.

Marty

I’ll read it - new thread request to avoid distracting from Brusby’s original.

 

[Freakscene]

I’ll read it - new thread request to avoid distracting from Brusby’s original.

You are too kind. I also, honestly, probably don’t have the time to write it.

 

[FrozenInTime]

This thread could get very lively if the rumoured re-release/continuation-series v1 Summilux happens.

 

[Freakscene]

This thread could get very lively if the rumoured re-release/continuation-series v1 Summilux happens.

It would be a nice re-release, particularly if they make some in ltm.

And with modern coating the v1 Summilux would be a nicer lens. I’d be up for a black paint version if they make one. Then I could and would take it out and provide some comparison shots.

 

[JohnWolf]

Beautiful shots, @brusby. The light gods blessed you that day. I can’t imagine this kind of human reaction in my little town. Maybe you live in Mayberry?

Help me out with version info. Is this the model named “Summilux-M” released in 2024? I understand there was an updated version released last year. Thanks.

John

 

[brusby]

The light and colours in these photos are gorgeous!

Thank's Jonathan! It was very late in the afternoon and the sunlight was taking on just a bit of golden glow. The M240 gets some grief for being a little on the plump side, but I like the extended battery life and the colors can be nice too, particularly with this lens.

Beautiful shots, @brusby. The light gods blessed you that day. I can’t imagine this kind of human reaction in my little town. Maybe you live in Mayberry?

Help me out with version info. Is this the model named “Summilux-M” released in 2024? I understand there was an updated version released last year. Thanks.

John

'Much appreciated, John, thank you!

It felt a little like Mayberry that day with everyone being so outwardly nice and friendly. Maybe I had a hint of a smile on my face from having just gotten the new lens and that was noticed by the people I encountered. Guess I should buy new lenses more often 😀

These photos were taken almost ten years ago. So, this is the first version Summilux ASPH.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, a Summilux with ltm would be great.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I have a black paint v1 Summilux Erik, in fact I have two - one is ltm, one is M mount.

The 40 lp/mm track on the mtf of the Summilux ASPH is very good - the v1 Summilux hardly resolves the 40 lp/mm spatial frequency at all. They are not even in the same ball park. The v1 also flares much more with direct light sources both in the field and just out of the field.

That lens is nowhere near as sharp, flare resistant, flat of field or useful for my purposes.

I must also point out that although I am fairly indifferent to cost, I am not taking a €30,000 lens any of the places I photograph. It’s actually more that if those lenses got damaged I doubt I could replace them. My M mount v1, apart from some age related changes in paint colour, looks hardly different than it did the day in 1960 when it left the factory.

Marty

There is a lot of uncertainty about what the first black v1 Summilux 50mm is. Does your lens number start with 17?

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (summilux 50mm f1.4 v1 black paint 1703XXX @ f1.4) leica m2

Artis Zoo, 2024

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (cooke amotal 50mm f2 @ f2) leica mp

Amsterdam, 2022

 

[Bill Blackwell]

One way to control bokeh or the rendition of the out of focus area is to pick your background. Sometimes you can’t.

View attachment 4838988

Good bokeh background.

View attachment 4838989

Bad bokeh background. These are both 50mm f1.4 ASPH v1, taken today - 8 June 2024.

I also place more importance on the character of the transition from in to out of focus than the character of the blur. New style lenses do much better with that. Also, not that it is very important for this forum, but the new lenses for mirrorless cameras from Canon, Sony, Nikon and Sigma have a new design emphasis on good bokeh and the transition from in-focus to out of focus. Maybe Panasonic too, but I haven’t used any of their lenses.

The only 50mm lens that fits a Leica M and has truly exceptional bokeh is the 5cm Cooke Amotal from the Bell and Howell Foton. For normal use it has a lot of problems, including that hard use wears them out because they were fairly shoddily adapted to Leica thread mounts and are mase of soft metal.

For now, for me, the 50mm f1.4 ASPH is the best normal lens. About the only thing I could see that would improve it markedly is if they could change the rendering to have the black and white tonality map out like it does on the 28mm Summilux, which, once you get the exposure right, seems to make photos that need remarkably little tonal manipulation.

I could write about M mount 50 mm lenses for a week, but I’ll probably leave it there.

Marty

Marty: IMHO, all your examples contained in this thread are all excellent.
But the 50mm Asph Summilux v1 happens to be my personal favorite.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you, Marty! I never tried that lens.

My Leica adapted Cooke Amotal 50mm f2 fell apart too, but is repaired. It is a very nice lens, but the maximum aperture is f2, not f1.4.

gelatin silver print (cooke amotal 50mm f2) leica m2

 

[Freakscene]

There is a lot of uncertainty about what the first black v1 Summilux 50mm is. Does your lens number start with 17?

My lenses are the Taylor, Taylor & Hobson designed v1 Summilux. This was the only one made in ltm until the special issue 11621 lenses made for the Japanese market in the early 2000s. The ltm one was given to my father as a wedding present by Günter Leitz.

Marty

 

[Erik van Straten]

My lenses are the Taylor, Taylor & Hobson designed v1 Summilux. This was the only one made in ltm until the special issue 11621 lenses made for the Japanese market in the early 2000s. The ltm one was given to my father as a wedding present by Günter Leitz.

Marty

I had the TTH designed version, but in a chrome M mount. It was much better than the later Leitz version - no distortion - but not really sharp. Later I got the same lens in black paint. It is much sharper, but is extremely rare.

The later Leitz version of the 50mm f1.4 in chrome, the most common Leitz 50mm f1.4, is not very sharp and suffers from severe barrel vault distortion. I've had that lens for many years, but was never happy with it. Of this version only a few black ones are made. I don't know if these are any better.

gelatin silver print (summilux 50mm f1.4 no.1703XXX black) leica m2

Amsterdam, 2021