JRCDH
Newbie
Hello everyone.
Since this is my first post to the site, I hope everyone will forgive me if I break any protocals.
I have been taking photos with various formats, with various cameras for many years and in the last 2 years or so, I have been repairing, CLA'ing them myself. ( I did send my Minolta Autocord CDS lll to Mark Hama near Atlanta for repair & CLA. There was a special problem with this camera and wanted an expert close to home to to do the work.) I currently have 3 cameras in various stages of disassembly. However, I have run into a problem with this camera that has me stumped.
I have disassembled this camera to remove and replace the simi-transparent mirror in the viewfinder/rangefinder assembly. After removing the top cover, the assembly is easily removed by 2 clips and 4 screws. However, access to this mirror is the problem. The Finder housing is sealed and inclosed, save a slit on the left side front (facing camera). This appears to be the only access to this mirror: and a tight one at that.
I have googled, archive surfed, etc. to no avial. There are references on the web on this camera, but none directly addressing this replacement. David Richert site is a very good reference on repairing the older Ziess folders, and according to his site he is going to add a viewfinder/rangefinder page, but hasn't as of this writing.
I know there are some very good repair people who specalize in Ziess folders, but having retired, and quite a few cameras that I want to get in top condition, I want to do the work myself.
Has anyone on this site replaced said mirror and can offer any adivce? ( I saw where someone recommended using a Moskva finder to replace a Ziess, but I don't want to go at this time, that route.) Or knows of a site that would be of help to me?
Any advice, information, web sites, etc. would be GREATLY appreciated.
Charles
Since this is my first post to the site, I hope everyone will forgive me if I break any protocals.
I have been taking photos with various formats, with various cameras for many years and in the last 2 years or so, I have been repairing, CLA'ing them myself. ( I did send my Minolta Autocord CDS lll to Mark Hama near Atlanta for repair & CLA. There was a special problem with this camera and wanted an expert close to home to to do the work.) I currently have 3 cameras in various stages of disassembly. However, I have run into a problem with this camera that has me stumped.
I have disassembled this camera to remove and replace the simi-transparent mirror in the viewfinder/rangefinder assembly. After removing the top cover, the assembly is easily removed by 2 clips and 4 screws. However, access to this mirror is the problem. The Finder housing is sealed and inclosed, save a slit on the left side front (facing camera). This appears to be the only access to this mirror: and a tight one at that.
I have googled, archive surfed, etc. to no avial. There are references on the web on this camera, but none directly addressing this replacement. David Richert site is a very good reference on repairing the older Ziess folders, and according to his site he is going to add a viewfinder/rangefinder page, but hasn't as of this writing.
I know there are some very good repair people who specalize in Ziess folders, but having retired, and quite a few cameras that I want to get in top condition, I want to do the work myself.
Has anyone on this site replaced said mirror and can offer any adivce? ( I saw where someone recommended using a Moskva finder to replace a Ziess, but I don't want to go at this time, that route.) Or knows of a site that would be of help to me?
Any advice, information, web sites, etc. would be GREATLY appreciated.
Charles
JRCDH
Newbie
533/16 B-2 Viewfinder mirror
533/16 B-2 Viewfinder mirror
Well, I guess no one here has "tinkered" with the 533 Super Ikonta.Thanks anyway.I made photos and notes while doing this repair and are available, when I finish, should anyone need a reference to make this type of repair.Charles
533/16 B-2 Viewfinder mirror
Well, I guess no one here has "tinkered" with the 533 Super Ikonta.Thanks anyway.I made photos and notes while doing this repair and are available, when I finish, should anyone need a reference to make this type of repair.Charles
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Sorry we couldn't be of much help on this one Charles.
I'm sure others will be grateful of your experiences when they find themselves in a similar position.
Welcome to the Rangefinder Forum.
I'm sure others will be grateful of your experiences when they find themselves in a similar position.
Welcome to the Rangefinder Forum.
literiter
Well-known
JRCDH said:
Well I just found this thread now. I have worked on 6 Super ikontas to date. This was three 531/2s and three 532/16s, but have as yet, found no problems with the mirrors in the rangefinder system. This is fortunate as this mirror assembly is likely very difficult to repair.
I believe this assembly consists of solid glass pieces, silvered, then glued together with Canada balsam.
The Moskva finder you refer to may be the rangefinder system from the Moskva 2 and 4. This may actually interchange with the Super Ikonta "C" version, 531/2 not the 533 cameras.
A person on this site worth contacting will be "Fallisphoto". He has likely worked on a 533 and has no hesitation to dispense good knowlege.
You have undertaken a very rewarding venture. These are wonderful cameras. I wish you the best of success.
JRCDH
Newbie
533/16 B-2 - Viewfinder mirror
Thank you for the reply and welcome "rogue_designer". And to you "Literite". I suspected the enclosed viewfinder housing had an extensive prism system; excluding the the 2 mounted on the shutter housing.You have some very knowledgeable posters on this site. I look forward to reading/posting on differing camera problems/solutions.I have a number of Zeiss cameras with the 530's comprising the most. Most in good shape.I will email "Fallisphoto".Charles
Thank you for the reply and welcome "rogue_designer". And to you "Literite". I suspected the enclosed viewfinder housing had an extensive prism system; excluding the the 2 mounted on the shutter housing.You have some very knowledgeable posters on this site. I look forward to reading/posting on differing camera problems/solutions.I have a number of Zeiss cameras with the 530's comprising the most. Most in good shape.I will email "Fallisphoto".Charles
FallisPhoto
Veteran
JRCDH said:
Wouldn't have a clue how to get into it without destroying it. I'd suggest that you look for a donor and replace the whole unit.
P C Headland
Well-known
It's a prism, rather than a half silvered mirror. I'm not sure that you can do anything to fix them, short of replacement.
JRCDH
Newbie
Thanks P C Headland and FallisPhoto for the replies. Yes, I have come to the conclusion that I have to replace the unit. Somewhat surprised that the mirror is a prism rather than a first surface mirror. Just looking into the front of the unit you would think it is a mirror rather than a prism. Read somewhere that some time ago, some type of "acrylic goo" was stuffed into the unit to assist (I guess) in improving the visibility, but that has since deteriated. Mine has only the deteriated silver coating. The unit is still useable, but I want to get it into good presentable shape all around, as with as, all my cameras. Currently looking for a replacement; be it from a donar camera or just the unit itself.Have yet to find any info. online as to how to replace this unit.Thanks again everyone.Charles
literiter
Well-known
JRCDH said:
-What does the view through the finder look like? Is the deterioration of the mirror overall or just in places? Have you been able to clean the entire RF chain?
-I think it might be a little rare to have the mirrors deteriorate in these cameras. (Read that I've never seen it, or heard of it, ever.)
-With two of my 532/16s I removed the complete mirro/prism assembly (very very carefully) and cleaned the air surfaces. With the assembly out I was then able to clean the interior surfaces of the finder window and the eyepiece. The eyepiece was somewhat tricky.
-I was able to repaint the lost black paint covering the non optical parts of the RF prism with some flat black enamel when the old paint came off. This paint keeps flare out of the glass prism assy. It must be there.
-The finders on these things are pretty good generally, but they ain't nearly as bright as Leicas or even your good old garden variety 35mm RF.
JRCDH
Newbie
Literite- Thanks for the input.Like you, I have several 532's. These have a little deteriation around the mirror periphery. As of this writing, I have not done any CLAing on them. The 533 has an enclosed rangefinder assembly, with the only access a narrow slit on the left side front of the housing (facing the camera). I have not tried to clean the mirror since I am afraid that I might damage what is left of the mirror silvering and no method of replacing. The deteriation is all around the edges of mirror and moving toward the center, making the view somewhat distorted. Haven't given up yet on an acceptable method of replacing the surface. As FallisPhoto stated, I might have to find a donor camera with a good viewfinder.The camera had some "bumps", both front and back, which I have cleaned up.All the functions appeared to be in decent shape. Even the lens are free of marks,scratches,etc. and rotate as one would expect.Since this is my first Super Ikonta CLA, I am afraid that the longer I take in reassembling this camera, even with photos, notes,etc., I am going to have a tough time getting it back togather properly. I have several other cameras I have broken down awaiting parts. Not worried about them.I do appreciate any and all input toward getting this camera in good appearance and working order.Charles
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
You may want to look into the KYPhoto archive and also contact DavidRichert.
I have not had the guts to get in there, but I also think that is a prism you may get another from fisherscientific or from science surplus depot.
I have not had the guts to get in there, but I also think that is a prism you may get another from fisherscientific or from science surplus depot.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
literiter said:
Many rangefinders "deteriorate" due to inept cleaning by amateurs, who rub off or otherwise damage the semisilvered mirror. Also, some of those with yellow patches used water soluable dyes to color that patch yellow (it washes off). Yet another common problem is plain old dirt. Sometimes you can get this off by blowing it off, but sometimes this won't do the job. In those cases, I figure I have little to lose and I use a spray bottle set on mist, and just try to very gently rinse it. If that doesn't work I replace it.
JRCDH
Newbie
Thanks again fellows for ALL your suggestions.
titrisol- Tried all 3 of your suggestions. D. Richert was my first approach. He has a new job and has little time to offer any detailed help. Tried the archives in KYphoto archives several weeks ago, no luck: And since the prism is inclosed in a metal housing with no direct access, I loose there also.
FallisPhoto- Due to extremely limited access to the mirror, cannot reach the mirror to even touch it without destroying the housing. Your last suggestion is probably what I'll do, if I can find a donor camera.
Any one here have a parts 533/16 with a good VF they are willing to part with?
Charles
titrisol- Tried all 3 of your suggestions. D. Richert was my first approach. He has a new job and has little time to offer any detailed help. Tried the archives in KYphoto archives several weeks ago, no luck: And since the prism is inclosed in a metal housing with no direct access, I loose there also.
FallisPhoto- Due to extremely limited access to the mirror, cannot reach the mirror to even touch it without destroying the housing. Your last suggestion is probably what I'll do, if I can find a donor camera.
Any one here have a parts 533/16 with a good VF they are willing to part with?
Charles