5cm Elmar - Working with f18 etc

[grouchos_tash]

I just bought a IIIf and an Elmar 5cm with the (what I understand are...) European apertures i.e. 3.5, 4.5, 6.3...

I was wondering whether, in comparison to modern apertures this would be true...

1/125 @ f16 = 1/100 @ f18

Could I just set the closest apertures and shutter speeds to my Sekonic 308 and still get the correct exposure due to the smaller apertures yet rounded down shutter speeds?

I hope that make sense!

Thanks,

Gary

Here's a few from my first roll 🙂

Untitled by Gary Harding, on Flickr

Untitled by Gary Harding, on Flickr

Untitled by Gary Harding, on Flickr

 

[pete hogan]

Gary, do you like the resulting exposures? That's key. Slower shutter speed will compensate for smaller aperture, but there are other factors to consider. It's an old camera, and perhaps not used for a while, so you won't know how accurate the shutter speed settings actually are.

Meter scale can help with adjusting for historic settings, I like the Sekonic L-208 for this. With your 308, rounding is good. Assuming that you use B&W negative film, tend toward overexposure, the film can handle that. In many image views metering needs +/- compensation to achieve exposure that you like for shadow detail.

 

[Scrambler]

The older numbers are 1/3 stop different from the modern ones.

Old camera shutter speed markings are broadly indicative and if correctly calibrated are +/- 1/3 stop from what they say.

I use shutter-speed app on my iPhone which allows a pretty decent estimate of shutter speeds up to around 1/250 and a guess after that whether anything changes at faster speeds. Apart from the expected greater loss of speed at top numbers (regardless of shutter design you can normally assume 2/3 stop slower performance of the top speed of any mechanical shutter) most shutters of my experience are about the same error through the low and midrange speeds.

 

[Scrambler]

As an example my Yashica 635 is 2/3 stop slow throughout and 1 stop at full speed (1/500 is actually 1/250) so if the meter wants 1/30 I set 1/60.

My Leica 111c is similarly around 2/3 stop slow and uses the old system. This sort of works because 1/50 marked is almost exactly 1/30, 1/100 is 1/60.

 

[Pioneer]

I think your shots turned out pretty well Gary.

I like working with the old Elmars and find them pretty amazingly sharp when stopped down.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Make a list of shutter speeds and apertures in thirds and then print it and cut in half so you can slide the two (apertures & speeds) values together. Then slide the modern meter readings together and look for the old style ones as the equivalent. Or buy an old Weston ...

Regards, David

PS You call then "European" values, in the UK we called them "Continental" or "German"...

 

[Dralowid]

I'd just use the 'nearest' as you have already done. There is plenty of latitude these days not only in the film itself but your camera too...and I doubt many still use reversal (slide) film???

 

[grouchos_tash]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Kind of what I figured that there was plenty of latitude in the film (yeah I usually use B&W). I've kind of just been positioning the aperture ring between the shutter numbers e.g. if the meter says f4 I just place it between F3.5 and F4.5

I guess the fact that B&W film has such range it's going to be hard to tell if my shutter speeds are out by, say, one stop. I'm sure when I scanned the film they all seemed to be over exposed. Now that could be either, my poor metering, the camera's shutter speeds or the scanners judgement.

Thanks again,

Gary

 

[Dektol Dan]

Ignore It

Ignore It

Just shoot the closest to whatever your light meter says and fudge to overexposure. Hell, I commonly shoot a half stop over and try to shoot for whatever is closest to f8 leaning to the wider side.

I don't care what the scale says, life is too short.

 

[Pioneer]

There really is no reason to fudge. The Leica Barnacks and the Elmar were designed to produce sharp images capable of enlargement. It is easy to test your own camera for shutter speed accuracy and then to learn to use the old aperture system to produce very well exposed photographs. Building a homemade sliding scale from thin cardboard is an easy thing to do and will turn you into an expert in no time.

 

[grouchos_tash]

There really is no reason to fudge. The Leica Barnacks and the Elmar were designed to produce sharp images capable of enlargement. It is easy to test your own camera for shutter speed accuracy and then to learn to use the old aperture system to produce very well exposed photographs. Building a homemade sliding scale from thin cardboard is an easy thing to do and will turn you into an expert in no time.

I just found a slide scale I made years ago and noticed that it includes the European/Continental apertures.

When I had a play with it I realised that there really isn't all that much in it, a 1/3 of a stop isn't really going to make much of a difference I guess anyway.

Thanks again.