nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
Hi all, a quick question.
I'm looking at buying a '38 Leica III that comes bundled with a '35 5cm Summar. The body appears to be in good working order, and the lens is reasonably clean and operates smoothly. However, the aperture blades appear to be out of alignment (ie. not symmetrical at anything below f2).
Does anyone have photos of the iris on a Summar stopped down at various points? Say f4 and f11 or thereabouts? I'm not exactly sure what it's suppose to look like, and I know the Summar blades are an oddly angled shape anyway...
If the blades are dodgy, is this likely to be a big/expensive fix?
The price is reasonable so I'd be happy sending the whole lot for a CLA regardless.
Cheers, Nick
I'm looking at buying a '38 Leica III that comes bundled with a '35 5cm Summar. The body appears to be in good working order, and the lens is reasonably clean and operates smoothly. However, the aperture blades appear to be out of alignment (ie. not symmetrical at anything below f2).
Does anyone have photos of the iris on a Summar stopped down at various points? Say f4 and f11 or thereabouts? I'm not exactly sure what it's suppose to look like, and I know the Summar blades are an oddly angled shape anyway...
If the blades are dodgy, is this likely to be a big/expensive fix?
The price is reasonable so I'd be happy sending the whole lot for a CLA regardless.
Cheers, Nick
Nick, the Summar aperture shape is a symmetrical hexagon. Aperture blades are easy enough to replace if broken or damaged. I think the main problem here would be finding replacement parts (assuming they're needed).
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
Thanks for the info, they're coming together as more of a asymmetric diamond so something's clearly not right...
I'm fairly sure all the blades are there, although I'm not sure if they're damaged. Do you know if the blades could come out of alignment without being damaged? I'm not sure how they're mounted...
Is replacing/realigning the blades a job I could do at home with a few tools?
peterm1
Veteran
Disassembling a lens is nothing compared with the difficulty of getting it back together again and working correctly. And in my experience this goes double for assembling iris blades which have to be put back into the lens in quite a specific way in order to work properly. Its in one word "fiddly" and I think, a job for at least someone experienced in the task, if not a trained lens technician.
I have had SLR lenses that had iris blades a bit out of kilter - a bit lop sided instead of being a regular hexagon for example. But the lens stopped down correctly and opened again automatically and gave the right exposure. So it may not be anything to worry about in its present state.
Whenever I have had a Leica lens (or Nikon for that matter) that has needed adjusting by a technician it has cost in the range $100 upwards depending on time taken and whether parts are needed. (Usually they are not) Incidentally the example iris blades in jonmanjiro's post look quite like some examples in certain late models of Summitar lens. I had thought Summars had the older style rounded blades. Clearly at least some had this style ones.
The aperture blades in the lenses I've worked on to as far as pulling the aperture blades out (only S-mount and LTM Nikkors) cannot go out of alignment. The aperture blades go in one way and that's it. The only way the shape could be asymmetrical is if something was bent or a blade wasn't seated properly. My understanding is that the Summar aperture blades are more complex in design and more difficult to remove/reinstall though, so there may be an added factor I'm not aware of. If it was a Nikkor, I'd say give it a try, but with a Summar I think you're better off sending it to a repairman.
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
Ok thanks again
This is the standard shape for a Summar. Leica used a circular shape with the early to mid run Summitars, and then changed back to a shape like the Summar on the later production Summitars.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Before you start working on the aperture blades of a Summar, you should first make an appointment with a psychiatrist. You will need him afterwards.
Don't do it. To work on the aperture of a Summar is a nightmare even for experienced technicians.
Erik.
Don't do it. To work on the aperture of a Summar is a nightmare even for experienced technicians.
Erik.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
My early(ish) Summar 217254 is perfectly symmetrical with the hexagon at all apertures, after f2 obviously. Surely there are enough copies to find a "good" one or is it the body you want really?
Coincidentally just ran some N74 ORWO through my uncoated version with no hood, old fashioned look straight out of the can.
Coincidentally just ran some N74 ORWO through my uncoated version with no hood, old fashioned look straight out of the can.
Dralowid
Michael
...and the harsh reality is that a visit to a technician will probably cost more than the value of the lens...
Michael
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
My early(ish) Summar 217254 is perfectly symmetrical with the hexagon at all apertures, after f2 obviously. Surely there are enough copies to find a "good" one or is it the body you want really?
Coincidentally just ran some N74 ORWO through my uncoated version with no hood, old fashioned look straight out of the can.
It's the body I'm after, so I'll probably just see if they'll split.
Lovely photo by the way!
peterm1
Veteran
I do love the old fashioned look of black and white images from an uncoated lens. I used to shoot with an Elmar 50mm f3.5 on a 111a and enjoyed it. I ended up buying all kinds of color filters for black and white shots but don't know that I much used them though other than a yellow. Great fun.
Scrambler
Well-known
Any chance of photos of the front of the lens, stopped down to F8 or smaller?
To be honest, I'd be trying it with film before anything else. It might be functionally OK, even if somewhat triangular.
To be honest, I'd be trying it with film before anything else. It might be functionally OK, even if somewhat triangular.
presspass
filmshooter
Just had a Summar and its attached IIIa CLA. The shots with this lens are great - the low contrast wide open makes wet printing a dream, and, stopped down a bit, it's very sharp. As to whether fixing the lens is a good idea financially - if you can afford it and the resulting photos suit your needs, it is. Most lenses of this age do need a CLA. If the lens is scratch-free, the work is worth doing.
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
I'll try and get a photo of the lens next time I'm in that neck of the woods, and yep, I'll see if they'll let me put a roll through before committing.
Out of interest, are there any good guides showing what to look for when buying old LTM's? I remember there being a very helpful one around these parts when I bought my M2, but can't seem to find anything similar for the Barnacks...
Steve M.
Veteran
That's exactly how a Summar is supposed to look. It's perfectly OK as it is. These are very easy lenses to clean, but I would agree, don't fool w/ the aperture blades other than to maybe give them a swap w/ lighter fluid on a Q-tip (especially as there is nothing wrong w/ those in your photo).
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
What is?
...
**edit** never mind, for some reason I didn't see the second half of your post... The photo above isn't of the lens I'm looking at - someone posted that to show what it should look like.
Scrambler
Well-known
Dunno, sorry. I'd just say make sure everything works. My very humble opinion is that the shutters are the main issue and nothing compares like taking the body off.
lynnb
Veteran
I haven't looked for a guide Nick, but I'd check that the mount thread looks good (no evidence of cross-threading), the VF is in good nick and the RF aligns properly, and the slow speeds sound OK. I'm assuming it came with the take-up spool?
Shine a torch on the shutter curtains and put a test roll through to check for pinholes in the curtains.
I bought a user IIIc and am very happy with it. They are nice cameras, very tactile. The shutter should sound with a quiet "snick".
My Summar #388XXX has a regular hexagon at all apertures. BTW I can recommend "ROR Residual Oil Remover" for cleaning lens elements. Scott at Mainline put me onto it and it works a treat.
Shine a torch on the shutter curtains and put a test roll through to check for pinholes in the curtains.
I bought a user IIIc and am very happy with it. They are nice cameras, very tactile. The shutter should sound with a quiet "snick".
My Summar #388XXX has a regular hexagon at all apertures. BTW I can recommend "ROR Residual Oil Remover" for cleaning lens elements. Scott at Mainline put me onto it and it works a treat.
raid
Dad Photographer
DAG did a great job on repairing an old Zeiss lens that had aperture problems.