bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Another newbie post, I beg your indulgence, oh wise RFF'ers.
Since I have been obsessing about acquiring a 4x5 camera, it struck me ... why not bump it up to a 5x7?
If I go 5x7, I can do contact prints. Somehow, I find this very appealing. I think it will be a fun challenge to work with paper and experiment with printing.
I do not have the proper space for an enlarger -- hence the idea of 5x7 contact prints, a technique that I understand requires minimal tools ... a contact frame, paper, a light source, and developing trays.
So -- does anyone have any idea of a good model of 5x7, perhaps something with a reducing back? That would give me the option of working with 4x5 as well.
* huge bow of deference *, I kindly await any suggestions.
Bobby
p.s. budget wise? I am not looking for a Zone VI, or a Linhof ... something in the sub-$1000 range, ... all in ... would be nice.
Since I have been obsessing about acquiring a 4x5 camera, it struck me ... why not bump it up to a 5x7?
If I go 5x7, I can do contact prints. Somehow, I find this very appealing. I think it will be a fun challenge to work with paper and experiment with printing.
I do not have the proper space for an enlarger -- hence the idea of 5x7 contact prints, a technique that I understand requires minimal tools ... a contact frame, paper, a light source, and developing trays.
So -- does anyone have any idea of a good model of 5x7, perhaps something with a reducing back? That would give me the option of working with 4x5 as well.
* huge bow of deference *, I kindly await any suggestions.
Bobby
p.s. budget wise? I am not looking for a Zone VI, or a Linhof ... something in the sub-$1000 range, ... all in ... would be nice.
tlitody
Well-known
walker 5x7 XL if you can find one second hand. They are not expensive new.
5x7 colour film is not so common these days but B+W is plentiful. But then why not go the whole hog and get an 8x10, 11x14 or 20x12 and make some stunning contact prints. Maybe not so hot for portraits but then you did say portraits and 5x7 or bigger with a rangefinder are as rare as rocking horse p*o.
5x7 colour film is not so common these days but B+W is plentiful. But then why not go the whole hog and get an 8x10, 11x14 or 20x12 and make some stunning contact prints. Maybe not so hot for portraits but then you did say portraits and 5x7 or bigger with a rangefinder are as rare as rocking horse p*o.
daniel buck
Established
What is it about the Zone VI and Linhof that you are looking to avoid? That might help us recommend a camera that you would like
I don't know if I've ever seen a 5x7 Zone VI, but I enjoyed the 4x5. Do you need alot of movements on the front and rear? Most cameras have decent movements on the front.are you looking for a folding "field" camera? or a monorail camera? When I reccomend folding cameras to people, I usually suggest either a ZoneVI/Wista, a tachihara, or a Shen-Hao. They all seem to be good cameras, at good prices (even brand new, for the Tachi or Shen). Good as a first camera, but (depending on what you are shooting) there is no reason they could not be more than a "beginner camera".
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Nokton48
Veteran
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Thanks to everyone for their input. Good advice. Nothing wrong with Zone VI, really -- I just thought they were expensive.
The Sinar Norma is looking mighty good.
The Sinar Norma is looking mighty good.
daniel buck
Established
Thanks to everyone for their input. Good advice. Nothing wrong with Zone VI, really -- I just thought they were expensive.
The Sinar Norma is looking mighty good.
The Zone VI 4x5s can be had for $700-1000 or so. But I don't believe they were are offered in 5x7, I could be wrong though. Tachihara and Shen Hao's are in the similar price range.
Here's a shen-hao 5x7 that includes a lens and a bunch of film holders, BIN for $1000 (Moderators, if it's not ok to post links to Ebay, I will remove it!) no connection to seller, just a quick search:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shen-Hao-5x7-ca...494845347?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item43a2d791a3
You can find some monorail cameras much cheaper. My first 4x5 monorail cost me $190 I believe. Like a Cambo. They made several sizes, 4x5 being the most common to find, but you can find 5x7 and 8x10 cambos for good prices, usually around 300-400
Keep in mind when you buy a large format camera, you are going to need alot of stuff to go along with it. light meter (if you dont' have one or don't want to use a digital camera as a meter), film holders, dark cloth (can be cheap, even a black t-shirt), focusing loupe, lenses, cable release, tripod (if you don't have one) changing tent, and so on. you don't need all of these, but you'll need most of them.
And then of course, film, LF film can get expensive if you shoot alot.If you can find a "kit" for sale that someone is selling everything together, like the camera, a lens, a cable release and some film holders, that will be a great start.
Oh, if you do want a range finder, you can find 5x7 speedgraphics sometimes.
Good luck! I'm sure you will enjoy the world of LF
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Nokton48
Veteran
Here's a 5x7 Norma Conversion kit going on right now. Add a front standard, rail section of your choice and rail clamp, and you are in business. Normas are unbreakable and restorable, even if they are completely trashed. Everybody that has one loves Norma.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinar-Norma-5x7...otography_Film_Cameras_ET&hash=item1e5f5f35e4
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinar-Norma-5x7...otography_Film_Cameras_ET&hash=item1e5f5f35e4
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bobby,
As far as I recall, my 13x18cm Linhof Technika V cost me 500€, currently about $700, and I don't think prices have gone up much since then. The opposite, if anything. Film holders for 13x18 cm, 5x7 inch and half plate (4-3/4 x 6-1/2 inch) share the same external dimensions.
Monorails with 5x7 backs can be silly cheap, but they are BULKY and bar stewards to carry (I have an 8x10 De Vere with 5x7 and 4x5 reducing backs).
Why not go to 10x8? Several reasons, in my view. A 5x7 contact print has a jewel-like quality, and is big enough to see. A 5x4 is marginal. The cameras are smaller and lighter, and cheaper to run. And the shape of the image is much prettier than the squat 8x10 shape.
Anything bigger than 10x8 is excessively interesting to process: agan, I've tried it, as my biggest camera is a 12x15 Gandolfi. Also, film costs a fortune.
Most 5x7 inch/13x18cm/half plate users are evangelical about these formats, and most of those who dismiss them have never tried them.
Cheers,
R.
As far as I recall, my 13x18cm Linhof Technika V cost me 500€, currently about $700, and I don't think prices have gone up much since then. The opposite, if anything. Film holders for 13x18 cm, 5x7 inch and half plate (4-3/4 x 6-1/2 inch) share the same external dimensions.
Monorails with 5x7 backs can be silly cheap, but they are BULKY and bar stewards to carry (I have an 8x10 De Vere with 5x7 and 4x5 reducing backs).
Why not go to 10x8? Several reasons, in my view. A 5x7 contact print has a jewel-like quality, and is big enough to see. A 5x4 is marginal. The cameras are smaller and lighter, and cheaper to run. And the shape of the image is much prettier than the squat 8x10 shape.
Anything bigger than 10x8 is excessively interesting to process: agan, I've tried it, as my biggest camera is a 12x15 Gandolfi. Also, film costs a fortune.
Most 5x7 inch/13x18cm/half plate users are evangelical about these formats, and most of those who dismiss them have never tried them.
Cheers,
R.
Nokton48
Veteran
Here's Another One.
Here's Another One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300488514897&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
And here's a nice original 5x7 Norma lens, if you like ultrawides:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=160501872769.html
I would expect to pay $200-$300 for the Norma 5x7 Rear Standard and 5x7 Norma Bellows, if in good shape. Add a Norma Front Standard for another couple of hundred, rail of a length that suits you, Norma Rail Clamp for $50, and Norma boards to fit your lenses. That's about it. Infinitely expandable system.
Here's Another One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300488514897&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
And here's a nice original 5x7 Norma lens, if you like ultrawides:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=160501872769.html
I would expect to pay $200-$300 for the Norma 5x7 Rear Standard and 5x7 Norma Bellows, if in good shape. Add a Norma Front Standard for another couple of hundred, rail of a length that suits you, Norma Rail Clamp for $50, and Norma boards to fit your lenses. That's about it. Infinitely expandable system.
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bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Thank you again to everyone for their kind suggestions and information.
I also appreciate the ebay links ... I know ebay is a little swarmy, but sometimes there's valuable info to be gleaned from the endless array of overpriced 'treasures' one finds listed there.
I missed out on the Norma listed in the UK ... a bit asleep, I was. But the 5x7 Zone VI looks pretty good. I reckon $1000 for the camera, bellows, tripod, 3 lens boards and 3 lenses sounds like a reasonable deal ... ?
Also, the shen hao 5x7 is looking interesting as well.
I like the idea of buying someone's complete system with the various odds and ends ... that way I don't have to search out lens boards, or film holders, or front standards, or other miscellany.
Anyone have any thoughts on these 2 auction items?
I also appreciate the ebay links ... I know ebay is a little swarmy, but sometimes there's valuable info to be gleaned from the endless array of overpriced 'treasures' one finds listed there.
I missed out on the Norma listed in the UK ... a bit asleep, I was. But the 5x7 Zone VI looks pretty good. I reckon $1000 for the camera, bellows, tripod, 3 lens boards and 3 lenses sounds like a reasonable deal ... ?
Also, the shen hao 5x7 is looking interesting as well.
I like the idea of buying someone's complete system with the various odds and ends ... that way I don't have to search out lens boards, or film holders, or front standards, or other miscellany.
Anyone have any thoughts on these 2 auction items?
JohnTF
Veteran
They sometimes appear at camera shows, if you can find one, I know I picked up a kit with a couple of lenses, some holders, and large field case for a reasonable price.
I know in the local shows there are a couple of people who always seem to have or know where one exists, along with things like reducing backs.
I found some 13x18 Linhof holders from a guy in Italy, some more in Prague, and some Foma film in 13x18, My local shop had a box of just expiring XX Kodak film at a reasonable price-- it may take a bit of looking around, and you may get lucky on ebay.
The wood field cameras with some very old lens at a show here may be very inexpensive, though you may be looking for some super lens to replace it, but the lens boards are often easy to fabricate.
Pinhole photography is fun as well with any LF camera, though results may be too "normal" looking. ;-).
Regards, John
I know in the local shows there are a couple of people who always seem to have or know where one exists, along with things like reducing backs.
I found some 13x18 Linhof holders from a guy in Italy, some more in Prague, and some Foma film in 13x18, My local shop had a box of just expiring XX Kodak film at a reasonable price-- it may take a bit of looking around, and you may get lucky on ebay.
The wood field cameras with some very old lens at a show here may be very inexpensive, though you may be looking for some super lens to replace it, but the lens boards are often easy to fabricate.
Pinhole photography is fun as well with any LF camera, though results may be too "normal" looking. ;-).
Regards, John
andreios
Well-known
I did undergo the same just recently - I decided to buy a cheaply found sinar monorail with 4x5 back, use the 4x5 format to learn how to use the view camera itself - it is a tad smaller but also cheaper and easier to process the film in normal tanks using taco method (or buy the jobo sheet-film holder for their tanks, consider also the cost of developing tools for larger format). The "plus" of sinar system or other systems is that you can add larger format back and bellows later, when you are already familiar with your camera and it's operations.
And 4x5 contact prints with borders are not that bad. For me it is also a bit more cost-efficient way to learn alt processes. Once you have mastered the technique, you can always go for bigger negatives.
And 4x5 contact prints with borders are not that bad. For me it is also a bit more cost-efficient way to learn alt processes. Once you have mastered the technique, you can always go for bigger negatives.
Nokton48
Veteran
Bobby,
I just bought this excellent DVD on repairing the Norma:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280580315228&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
If you are seriously considering the Norma, I would recommend spending $11.00 and buying the original instruction book, and studying it. It discusses the entire Norma system, and how to use it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinar-Norma-Vie...974?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56402aa0de
Finally, if you don't want to deal with Ebay, you can buy from a dealer. Igor in Cleveland lists four Normas on his website:
http://www.igorcamera.com/sinar.htm
I just bought this excellent DVD on repairing the Norma:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280580315228&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
If you are seriously considering the Norma, I would recommend spending $11.00 and buying the original instruction book, and studying it. It discusses the entire Norma system, and how to use it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinar-Norma-Vie...974?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56402aa0de
Finally, if you don't want to deal with Ebay, you can buy from a dealer. Igor in Cleveland lists four Normas on his website:
http://www.igorcamera.com/sinar.htm
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
In the UK, the Kodak Specialist half-plate is usually silly cheap (under £100) but it's HEAVY and shipping would cost a lot. This is from http://www.the-saleroom.com/catalogues/List.aspx?eventId=2802909&categoryId=3
77 A Kodak Specialist 3 half-plate monorail camera no. 3455, with grey crackle-finish aluminium and wooden body, with Ektar f/7.7 203mm lens in Prontor SVS shutter, extension section for front standard, sprung focusing screen and repeating back, with Dallmeyer f/6.5 4¼in. wide-angle lens and six double dark slides, in fitted case, British, circa 1950 (4Bii) 50 to 80 (GBP)
The Ektar lens alone is worth £100. I've had the (older, heavier, non-monorail) version and it was very versatile, but EVEN HEAVIER.
Cheers,
R.
77 A Kodak Specialist 3 half-plate monorail camera no. 3455, with grey crackle-finish aluminium and wooden body, with Ektar f/7.7 203mm lens in Prontor SVS shutter, extension section for front standard, sprung focusing screen and repeating back, with Dallmeyer f/6.5 4¼in. wide-angle lens and six double dark slides, in fitted case, British, circa 1950 (4Bii) 50 to 80 (GBP)
The Ektar lens alone is worth £100. I've had the (older, heavier, non-monorail) version and it was very versatile, but EVEN HEAVIER.
Cheers,
R.
daniel buck
Established
Indeed, alot (most?) of monorail setups are modular like this. And many can be found for very cheap, especially the 4x5 versions.
I've got a 4x5 cambo, and I'm thinking about picking up an 8x10 back and bellows for it, so that I can use strange lens combinations on the larger 8x10 side that would be to large for a 4x5 standard, and then still shoot from the 4x5 side. Fun things can be done with monorail cameras! Like this (which was to large for my folding cameras:
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jmcd
Well-known
I have an Agfa Ansco that is solid, has a 4x5 reduction, sets up fast, and operates smoothly. It doesn't fold up as small as some of the modern folders, but it is a great camera—something to consider, well under budget.