6x6 Folders w Coupled Combined RF/VF

graywolf said:
What 6x6 folding cameras had coupled combined rangefinder/viewfinders?

The ones I know of:

Agfa Super Isolette
Ansco Super Speedex
Balda Super Baldax
Iskra I, II
Welta Weltur
Zeiss Super Ikonta B, BX, III, IV
Mamiya Six

ADDED from other posts:
Telka III
Takane Mine Six IF & III
Aram Six
Seagull 203 folder (there was also a SG 203 TLR)
Ensign Commando 1220
Fujica Super Six
Kershaw Peregrine II


Others? Corrections? I will edit them into this post.
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A couple of corrections; it's

Ensign "Commando" (not "Commando 1220" ; I'm being pedantic here ;) to forestall potential confusion with the later, different, "Selfix 1220" models),
and
Kershaw Peregrine III (not II, which has no rangefinder).

Also. the Ensign "Autorange 220" complies with the criteria.
 
RichL said:
Seems the Royer Teleroy fits the bill. The Teleroy is a 6x9 / 6x6 convertable folder.
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Nope, most of us would consider that a 6x9. There are quite a few 6x9's that can be masked down to 6x6 or 6x4.5. Although, I believe that there are even fewer of those that have CCRV's.

As to why limit things to 6x6, it is really as simple as that it the largest negative my enlarger will take, and it is the largest common slide projector size. When one starts making lists, the first thing is to define the limits of the list. I think I did a pretty good job on this one.

Of course, anyone is welcome to start a list thread with whatever parameters they chose.
 
graywolf said:
Nope, most of us would consider that a 6x9. There are quite a few 6x9's that can be masked down to 6x6 or 6x4.5. Although, I believe that there are even fewer of those that have CCRV's.

As to why limit things to 6x6, it is really as simple as that it the largest negative my enlarger will take, and it is the largest common slide projector size. When one starts making lists, the first thing is to define the limits of the list. I think I did a pretty good job on this one.

Of course, anyone is welcome to start a list thread with whatever parameters they chose.
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My apologies. If I were hunting for a 6x6 folder the fact that it shoots other formats as well would be a rather moot point for me. :)
 
RichL said:
My apologies. If I were hunting for a 6x6 folder the fact that it shoots other formats as well would be a rather moot point for me. :)
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No need to apologize. In fact the list is not really just for my information, as I am looking for a specific camera. I figured that others who might be looking for something similar, or collecting and want to know what fits, may find the list interesting.

A point to consider, commenting on your comment, is that 6x9 cameras are almost always bigger and heavier than their smaller format cousins. Although, I would not worry about that if someone offered me a Bessa II, for a very good price.
 
graywolf- Point taken on size. My 524/16 slips into my pocket, no would that happen with the 524/2.

chippy french site for the 6x9 / 6x6. The original site (since lost to me) had it listed as a rare variation. So far as I can find this model and a zone focus model are the only two they manufactured in the the 6x6 rather than the 6X4.5 dual format.

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/royer/html/teleroy.php
 
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chippy said:
not to sound picky, but that is a good reason to edit your posts and list the cameras correctly, it may seem trivial and its VERY easy to make the mistakes (i frequently make mistakes) but if making a specific list such as this, for reason of benefiting others then if you leave off the parts of the name it may refer to a different or similar camera with different features or no camera at all
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Those changes have been made. I do realize that in some cases there were previous models with the same name that had lesser features. Maybe I should point that out?

I guess I should also point out that I came to RFF looking for this info, and did not find it in an easily accessable form, but had to read many of the posts in this forum and the parent form. Hopefully, the next person can read the first post in this thread and then just search for the cameras.

I also find it strange that while there are a lot of posts about the European cameras, there are not a lot about Japanese folders (except the Mamiya Six).
 
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This thread inspired me to gamble on a Minolta Auto Semi, a 6x4.5 camera. I didn't know the camera existed before this thread in all honesty.

After using the Zenobia, I expect to be let down by lens quality - even if the lens is in awesome condition. I haven't been able to find any reference shots taken with the lens, but it is uncoated as far as I know so I'm trying to temper my expectations as much as possible.

That said, a coupled rangefinder folder I liked would be great, even if it isn't even 6x6.

Hopefully this deal ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330519119241 ) works out in my favor. I've got no problem working on cameras a bit and for $65 including shipping, I'm willing to give fixing almost anything a shot.
 
chippy said:
, .but IMO, generally speaking, even the best of the English or Japanese folders still have their weak points in comparison to the German folders, in some cases its the lenses that just arnt up to the same standard but most of the time its the shutters that just arnt as durable, fast or as good as the german shutters, also many Japanese folders are in the format of 6x4.5 which is super popular there, but much less so in other parts of the world...if there were more Japanese folder enthusiasts on RFF it would only add to the mix but there doesnt seem to be many except the odd person giving them a passing interest, not very often a daily user camera as can be the case with German folders
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Konica Pearl IV has been on my mind from the start of this thread. 645 so not fitting the conditions. For the RF/VF it should have taken first place in the ranking if it had been a 6x6.

http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Pearl_IV
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/koni3.html

Quote from the last:
Viewfinders: The hardest thing to get over on the Konica IIIA and IIIM is the clarity and brightness of the combined view/rangefinder and its sophistication. Both feature a warm 1:1 viewfinder field with a square spot (although Pop Photo reviewed it as having a bluish tint).
There are 50mm projected framelines which move and shrink to correct both for parallax and for shrinking field as you get closer. Frame coverage is 85% at all distances (inside the lines) and 95% at all distances (to the outside edge of the lines). The Konica IIIA was the first camera ever to have continuous field-size correction (Pop Photo, 1958). The Konica Pearl IV 6x4.5 rangefinder had a similar finder arrangement. As of 1959, the year of the IIIM, the only other camera line to have it was the Graflex Combat Graphic (basically a 70mm uber-Contax). Leica still doesn't have it, 44 years later.
The IIIM (1959) has extra lines for half-frame (more on that later). The overall range/viewfinder was lightyears ahead of the competition.<<




Ernst Dinkla
 
P C Headland said:
Another "folder" to add is the Weha Chrome Six. Later versions (like the Super Ikontas) had a combined viewfinder / RF window. The early version (like mine) had separate ones.
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Well, while that one did not fit in, the Olympus Chrome Six certainly does.

Quiry: Has anyone noticed that many times collectors seem to refer to the old folders as a "Six" (Mamiya Six) and the modern cameras with a "6" (Mamiya 6). Is that a pretty normal, or just a sign of casualness on the writer's part?
 
Pedantic pundits are a pain in the posterior. Well worth it to have accurate information at the end of the game though. :)
 
My final name decision comes from camerapedia.org.

If that is wrong take it up with them, I am only a person interested in finding a reasonably priced user. When I get conflicting names I have to have somewhere to refer too. I am quite aware that any web source, and a lot of printed sources of information may be in err, but I have no way to determine that. There was a time when I had lots of old photographic catalogs, but that as a dozen moves and a fire ago.

As I said, in different words, the purpose of this list is to give a point for someone to start looking. To that point, I will ad a 6 v. Six disclaimer.
 
Chippy, first (or is that 1st), I want to say that I do appreciate your help. You are probably putting in more time correcting me than I am in composing the list. But I guess I need to point out that I am using two entries when the same camera was sold as a different brand, but not when it was a variation of the same brand. If nothing else, your comments do help me define the parameters of the list more closely. But, please, remember that the list is intended to be a starting point, not the ultimate resource for collectors like you. In some cases, the cameras had hundreds of tiny variations over the years.
 
Since it makes a difference to folks who might be looking to buy type of camera, mentioning that on the web the same camera may be referred to as a "Six" or a "6". That helps someone searching for a camera to buy. A "It is a 6, not a Six, you ass": is not helpful at all.

Flaming me is not helping at all, in fact it just means the OP will not get anymore revisions.
 
Hi guys, my ¢2.

Hi guys, my ¢2.

When I'm looking for infos on a camera, I'm used to read everything I could find on internet about it. That's how I found at first this forum. It does take time but I find it enjoyable, and rewarding as by reading everything I can discover cameras I wasn't aware of and evolve in my quest, and I can find many details through other people's experience. I think it could be too difficult to write everything about any camera on a list, it is the limit of such a list in helping choose a camera. It's just a helpfull start point for more research, and one should stay open minded to start such a search, the final best answer may be not what one expected at first.

That way, by looking for infos about 6x6 folders, mostly Zeiss Ikonta and Agfa cameras, I discovered a lot of other cameras with different features variably interesting, and finally ended with my amazing Mamiya 6 Automatic 2 (did I correctly wrote it's name, Chippy? ;):D ) which I consider to be one of the most advanced 6x6 folder from the '50s (especially after I got it perfectly serviced and bellow replaced). :cool:
 
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