6x6 recommendations; Mamiya 6?

[benlees]

Guess that’s why it’s so modestly priced.

Yeah. I should mention the 65mm cost me $75, and had the shutter not broken, it would have been a screaming deal. Very good lens. I didn't bother with any repair.

 

[ACullen]

A year ago I was deciding between Hassleblad and Mamiya 6. I have a Rolleilflex but wanted a MF with wide/tele abilities too. I'm very glad I went for the Mamiya. Its reputation regards the advance had me concerned but in the end its weight and size advantage over the Blad was THE deciding factor. As others have pointed out its never going to be as versatile as an SLR style camera but its sheer portability was very important to me. The Rolleiflex TLR handles portraits and closer up work just fine and the Mamiya is my go to landscape camera.

Indeed I scaled back my Leica kit as I just wasn't using it for much such was my dedication to using the Mamiya. I'd agree that the Mamiya's VF/RF is better than in the Leica M2. I was never comfortable using telephotos on the M2 but the 150mm works a treat on the Mamiya.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I was never comfortable using telephotos on the M2 but the 150mm works a treat on the Mamiya.

Unfortunately, the 150 doesn't focus close enough for portraits, compared with a 90mm on a LeicaM.

 

[james.liam]

Beginning to wonder whether the Fujifilm GA645 may be a better compromise. Once you start piecing a camera together, becomes quite the expense. Finder with a meter, updating a focus screen, one or two film backs... then the glass

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Beginning to wonder whether the Fujifilm GA645 may be a better compromise. Once you start piecing a camera together, becomes quite the expense. Finder with a meter, updating a focus screen, one or two film backs... then the glass

James, If you're jonesing for 6x6.... the 645 may not do it for you (i preferred the bigger negs) Another huge consideration for me....the 645 frames in portrait orientation and i don't see the world that way & I love not having to turn a 6x6 camera. As far as expense...you can piece it together over time....& it's up to your choices & your budget to decide just what is "enough."

 

[DwF]

I am getting to like the 645 more using my Zeiss 531. I am also wanting to experiment more with framing vertically using it which I rarely do with my other cameras. Of course 6x6 takes care of that.....

David

 

[james.liam]

I am getting to like the 645 more using my Zeiss 531.....

David

Zeiss 531? Not familiar with that

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Zeiss 531? Not familiar with that

Super Ikonta 531

 

[Evergreen States]

While my experiences with medium format are limited due to the expense of having the film developed by a lab, I must regrettably agree that the 645 format doesn’t have the distinct medium format look that you get with 6x6 and 6x7. I’ve had my GA645 since June of last year. I’ve not found the portrait orientation to be a substantially bigger issue than the landscape orientation of most other cameras, though I’ve probably been shooting mostly in landscape orientation with the GA645. It’s a little weird but you get used to it. Handling is mostly comfortable, with the biggest annoyance for me being the AF lock, which my finger sometimes slips off of. But even this is small potatoes. I’ll let you know more about the image quality and meter accuracy when I get this next batch of film back from the lab. You won’t be able to focus as quickly as a Leica due to the startup time and autofocus (or alternatively, steps involved in zone focusing). The AF and advance motors are noisy, though I’ve heard that the GA645i, GA645Wi and GA645Zi are a bit quieter. Give strong consideration as to whether you prefer the 35, 28 or 34-56 equivalent lens.

 

[ornate_wrasse]

....the 50mm is one of the best lenses ever made by anyone ever. It was seriously the nicest camera system I have ever owned or used and probably will remain so for the rest of my life.

I could not agree more with Phil that the 50mm lens for the Mamiya 6 is one of the best lenses ever made by anyone ever.

Here are a few images taken with the 50mm lens mounted on the Mamiya 6:

The first one was taken in the Steen's Mountain area of Oregon and used Ektar 100 film.

The second and third images were taken in St Augustine, FL at the Castillo de San Marcos National Monument using Fujichrome Velvia film.

It truly is a remarkable lens and, for that reason, amount others, I don't think I will ever sell my Mamiya 6 camera.

 

[DwF]

Super Ikonta 531

As Deardorff said, it is a Super Ikonta, and from 1937 design is a wholly different experience. I only chimed in having read your post regarding interest in 645. We all come to these cameras with different punch-list of what we are looking for. I like the Ikonta cameras for a variety of reasons, none of which is ease of use (although relative to old folders they are pretty okay🙂.

The 531A is not to be confused with the 531/16 which is a 6x6, but regardless of the "/16" only gets 12 exposures to a roll🙂 The 531A is extremely portable, comparable that way to my Perkeo. As a 6x4.5 it also yields 16 frames per roll of film. These cameras slow me down and think about my photography differently. They offer a nice contrast to digital cameras that I like to shoot with.

David

 

[james.liam]

Older uncoated lenses aren't appealing to me, especially using color emulsions. Love the folder and wish I hadn't passed on a Fujifilm GF670 when B&H found extras in the warehouse. I can kick myself for that fool move. Should have bought 5 and resold 4 of them.

 

[oldwino]

Get yourself a nice 500c/m, 80mm f2.8, and an A12 back and use the waist level finder. No meter, no prism, no fancy screen or stuff. Go basic. Shoot at least 10 rolls of film before deciding a. if this is right for you and b. if you "really" need a prism/meter, etc. It will take at least 10 rolls to figure this out, and get into the groove of shooting the Hassy.
If, after those rolls, you hate it, it will be easy to sell and you won't lose any money.

The Hasselblad, in its basic configuration, is fairly compact (I hike with mine), fairly quick to use, the haptics are wonderful, and the image results are worth it.

 

[OlivierAOP]

There is a video by Steve O'Nions on YT discussing Bronica SQ vs Hasselblad. Bottom line is get Hasselblad if you can afford it, but it is 3x the price.

Recently got myself a SQ-A kit to try the square format. Bulkier than Mamiya M645 but same weight, and the prism is A-priority AE (not just coupled + metered). One of the 4 backs is bad but otherwise, so far so good.

On that note, the Mamiya M645 system is also pretty nice.

 

[james.liam]

There is a video by Steve O'Nions on YT discussing Bronica SQ vs Hasselblad. Bottom line is get Hasselblad if you can afford it, but it is 3x the price.

Recently got myself a SQ-A kit to try the square format. Bulkier than Mamiya M645 but same weight, and the prism is A-priority AE (not just coupled + metered). One of the 4 backs is bad but otherwise, so far so good.

On that note, the Mamiya M645 system is also pretty nice.

Thanks for that tip. I know little about Bronica and Zenzanon lens rendering. Worth a deeper dive.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

The medium format world was always more limited than the 35mm world for choice. I guess this was because the target market was pros who were comfortable with the medium and the prices were always roughly 5x-10x of the cost of 35mm for the same fields of view. You have said above that a handheld meter is a deal breaker for you, but in general that's how pros worked in the golden age of MF gear. As a result, the metering in MF gear was never as good or as sophisticated as the metering you'd get from a good handheld meter, which gave you incident, reflected spot, flash, lighting ratios, sometimes color temperature and so on. I think that's because a lot of MF gear was used in a studio setting, and a handheld incident meter is really more of a precision instrument than any reflected meter that you are going to find in a camera. In camera light meters are also, in my experience, the first thing to break. So that's one axis.

The weight and bulk of a camera system is the other main axis of your wish-list.

In general, and again in my experience, the differences between MF systems, in terms of the image quality they produce are smaller than the differences between formats. As long as you are using a multi-coated lens (say, anything from around 1970 onwards) there is going to be less of a difference between a Kiev 60, a Pentacon 6, a Hassleblad, a Bronica, a Mamiya C330, a Mamiya 6, a Plaubel Makina, etc. etc. than there will be between the worst of them and the best Canon/Nikon/Leica. In general. If you like birding, or sports photography, or need 36 shots per roll, then the balance tips the other way (you rarely if ever saw a Hassie on the sidelines of an NFL or NBA game-wrong tool for the job). This is a long winded way of saying, that unless getting wrapped around the axle of whose bokeh is better is fun for you (and there is nothing wrong with that), I wouldn't go too far down the Bronica vs. Hassy rabbit hole. There were/are differences in the systems, but IQ is not one of them.

I would focus on how you like to work, and then back into your tool choice that way. If you are a one-camera/one-lens guy, then one answer may pop out. If you are a street photographer, then another may. And if you are a generalist, and want flexibility then you get a different answer. For instance, when I was traveling in Japan, I took a Leica for snapshots, and the Fuji 6x4.5 (the manual one, not the autofocus) for when I wanted the bump in IQ. It was super light, made of plastic (mostly) and gave me a bump in IQ for very little weight penalty.

In your shoes, the Mamiya 6 is a great choice. If I was making the decision for myself, I'd chose a no meter Hassie 500 CM - less stuff to break and if you are only carrying one body and one lens the bulk is not bad. Also, it was the industry standard for many years, there are spare parts and replacements for everything still out there all over the world. But that's me, and my choice would be suited to how I work. So think of your ideal work flow. That won't lead to a bad result no matter what you choose.

 

[Canyongazer]

I have a Mamiya 6 that I don't use often enough. A. I can't get my brain around square photos. B. Instagram has basically ruined square photos for me anyway. C. I need to figure out how 6x6 can effectively produce cropped rectangular photos - which is what pros have always done. And D. Its lenses are absolutely fantastic.

To me, a 6x6 is an advantage. Not only are you shooting a square, which, admittedly is not everyone's cup of Dektol, but you are simultaneously shooting both a 645 horizontal AND a 645 vertical.
Lot of cropping/printing options.

 

[james.liam]

The medium format world was always more limited than the 35mm world for choice. I guess this was because the target market was pros who were comfortable with the medium and the prices were always roughly 5x-10x of the cost of 35mm for the same fields of view. You have said above that a handheld meter is a deal breaker for you, but in general that's how pros worked in the golden age of MF gear. As a result, the metering in MF gear was never as good or as sophisticated as the metering you'd get from a good handheld meter, which gave you incident, reflected spot, flash, lighting ratios, sometimes color temperature and so on. I think that's because a lot of MF gear was used in a studio setting, and a handheld incident meter is really more of a precision instrument than any reflected meter that you are going to find in a camera. In camera light meters are also, in my experience, the first thing to break. So that's one axis.

The weight and bulk of a camera system is the other main axis of your wish-list.

In general, and again in my experience, the differences between MF systems, in terms of the image quality they produce are smaller than the differences between formats. As long as you are using a multi-coated lens (say, anything from around 1970 onwards) there is going to be less of a difference between a Kiev 60, a Pentacon 6, a Hassleblad, a Bronica, a Mamiya C330, a Mamiya 6, a Plaubel Makina, etc. etc. than there will be between the worst of them and the best Canon/Nikon/Leica. In general. If you like birding, or sports photography, or need 36 shots per roll, then the balance tips the other way (you rarely if ever saw a Hassie on the sidelines of an NFL or NBA game-wrong tool for the job). This is a long winded way of saying, that unless getting wrapped around the axle of whose bokeh is better is fun for you (and there is nothing wrong with that), I wouldn't go too far down the Bronica vs. Hassy rabbit hole. There were/are differences in the systems, but IQ is not one of them.

I would focus on how you like to work, and then back into your tool choice that way. If you are a one-camera/one-lens guy, then one answer may pop out. If you are a street photographer, then another may. And if you are a generalist, and want flexibility then you get a different answer. For instance, when I was traveling in Japan, I took a Leica for snapshots, and the Fuji 6x4.5 (the manual one, not the autofocus) for when I wanted the bump in IQ. It was super light, made of plastic (mostly) and gave me a bump in IQ for very little weight penalty.

In your shoes, the Mamiya 6 is a great choice. If I was making the decision for myself, I'd chose a no meter Hassie 500 CM - less stuff to break and if you are only carrying one body and one lens the bulk is not bad. Also, it was the industry standard for many years, there are spare parts and replacements for everything still out there all over the world. But that's me, and my choice would be suited to how I work. So think of your ideal work flow. That won't lead to a bad result no matter what you choose.

All very thoughtful recommendations. Wow.

 

[Godfrey]

Beginning to wonder whether the Fujifilm GA645 may be a better compromise. Once you start piecing a camera together, becomes quite the expense. Finder with a meter, updating a focus screen, one or two film backs... then the glass

James, If you're jonesing for 6x6.... the 645 may not do it for you (i preferred the bigger negs) Another huge consideration for me....the 645 frames in portrait orientation and i don't see the world that way & I love not having to turn a 6x6 camera. As far as expense...you can piece it together over time....& it's up to your choices & your budget to decide just what is "enough."

I have had the GS645, the GA645, and now have the GS645S Wide 60. The first was a manual/mechanical folder ... a lovely design but a bit fragile. The second a much more robust camera but with AF ... I'm not big on AF. The third I bought recently and is my favorite of them: simple, direct, all mechanical and manual.

After Lunch With Don K. - Morro Bay 2019
Fuji GS645S Wide 60 Professional​

All three made (make in the case of the last!) superb photos. The GA in particular I sold to a good friend who documented his two daughters birth through teenage years with it... some of the best photos of that sort I've ever seen!

The 'natural' vertical orientation is great for portraits, and it's easy enough to roll it 90° for a landscape, but I can see that being awkward if you naturally frame for the landscape in your vision. The 645 SLRs (like the Mamiya 1000 that I once had, and the Hasselblad 500CM fitted with A16 back) are awkward the other way (particularly when fitted with waist level finders). I laughed when I was out shooting with the Hasselblad and that back and came up on a whole set of things that would have been so natural to shoot with the GS645S... 🙂

The biggest substantive difference (beyond that) is that if you like square format, you can frame and take advantage of more negative area with the 6x6 cameras. With both 6x4.5 and 6x6, you have plenty of negative area to get very fine quality on squares or on both horizontal and vertical framings, if you want that, by cropping. The notion of allowing the camera's format to dictate my framing is something that I've never accepted. The plus advantage to the 645, independent of the natural framing 'awkwardness' issue, is that you get 30% more exposures on a roll of film ... that's three-four more pictures per roll to experiment with before having to reload, so more photo opportunities and a bit less cost in materials for substantively the same quality image. And the 645 cameras tend to be a little more walking/hand-held friendly, in general, but there are exceptions like the little Voigtländer Perkeo II which is incredibly handy and easy to have with you nearly all the time.

As I said before but in another way ... There are a lot of camera choices, and what makes a choice difficult is more how specific your requirements and desires are, and how much you're willing to compromise. I find that just picking which camera off the shelf when I have such an overburdened shelf of cameras to choose from presents its own bit of distraction. But, luckily, that distraction is behind me by the time I walk out the door. 🙂

Voigtländer Perkeo II​

Happily, I do tend to use all of my cameras from time to time... and they make satisfying photographs!
Good luck!

G

 

[AFenvy]

The medium format world was always more limited than the 35mm world for choice. I guess this was because the target market was pros who were comfortable with the medium and the prices were always roughly 5x-10x of the cost of 35mm for the same fields of view. You have said above that a handheld meter is a deal breaker for you, but in general that's how pros worked in the golden age of MF gear. As a result, the metering in MF gear was never as good or as sophisticated as the metering you'd get from a good handheld meter, which gave you incident, reflected spot, flash, lighting ratios, sometimes color temperature and so on. I think that's because a lot of MF gear was used in a studio setting, and a handheld incident meter is really more of a precision instrument than any reflected meter that you are going to find in a camera. In camera light meters are also, in my experience, the first thing to break. So that's one axis.

The weight and bulk of a camera system is the other main axis of your wish-list.

In general, and again in my experience, the differences between MF systems, in terms of the image quality they produce are smaller than the differences between formats. As long as you are using a multi-coated lens (say, anything from around 1970 onwards) there is going to be less of a difference between a Kiev 60, a Pentacon 6, a Hassleblad, a Bronica, a Mamiya C330, a Mamiya 6, a Plaubel Makina, etc. etc. than there will be between the worst of them and the best Canon/Nikon/Leica. In general. If you like birding, or sports photography, or need 36 shots per roll, then the balance tips the other way (you rarely if ever saw a Hassie on the sidelines of an NFL or NBA game-wrong tool for the job). This is a long winded way of saying, that unless getting wrapped around the axis of whose bokeh is better is fun for you (and there is nothing wrong with that), I wouldn't go too far down the Bronica vs. Hassy rabbit hole. There were/are differences in the systems, but IQ is not one of them.

I would focus on how you like to work, and then back into your tool choice that way. If you are a one-camera/one-lens guy, then one answer may pop out. If you are a street photographer, then another may. And if you are a generalist, and want flexibility then you get a different answer. For instance, when I was traveling in Japan, I took a Leica for snapshots, and the Fuji 6x4.5 (the manual one, not the autofocus) for when I wanted the bump in IQ. It was super light, made of plastic (mostly) and gave me a bump in IQ for very little weight penalty.

In your shoes, the Mamiya 6 is a great choice. If I was making the decision for myself, I'd chose a no meter Hassie 500 CM - less stuff to break and if you are only carrying one body and one lens the bulk is not bad. Also, it was the industry standard for many years, there are spare parts and replacements for everything still out there all over the world. But that's me, and my choice would be suited to how I work. So think of your ideal work flow. That won't lead to a bad result no matter what you choose.

Very well said. I agree with this entirely.