6X9, cheap, simple but good: Which one??

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Bertram2

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Hi to all.
I have no clue at all what the solution could be, I just want a simple camera which takes fine 6X9pics.
A rangefinder is not that important, could be a VF too, halfways portable, robust, make and prestige does not play a role AT ALL, I just want top worth for the money, optical quality is important but it must not be one of those which are regarded commonly as the Rolls Royce among the 6X9.
Which camera could this be, a folder in general like a Voigtländer Bergheil or a Ikonta, Iskra ? Or are there other solutions ? Less compact but rigid designs.
As I said, I have no overview here. Budget $350 to $500.

If it should turn out that the folder is the only reasonable solution I 'd like to know what the weak points of the old folders are. I mean all these levers and hingepoints, can get bended, get play by the time, would be worse than a hole in the bellow, these can get replaced easily as I have seen yet. Tilted lenses, film flatness ? Issues ?

Thanks for all info and advice !

bertram
You can't replace neg size , excepted by more neg size ! :D
 
That is a good budget, look what Jurgen Krckel (certo6) has to offer and try getting an Ikonta or a Bessa II
There is one from MajorBlack http://tinyurl.com/bwg7p that seems to be in great shape and could be an excellent buy
 
Film flatness is an issue with any older camera. However, for the most part I have not seen these issues in a good condition folder, even a Moskva.

I think Pablo's recommendation of Jurgen is a good start. He'll sell you one in about as good a condition as you can imagine. But trying out a Moskva might not be a bad start. You could buy like 8 of them for your budget. :)

allan
 
In your budget, something like a Bessa II with a Color-Skopar would be good. I don't know the Ikontas myself, but people who have them seem to like them, and Agfa made some 6x9 folders that have their partisans.

You could also get something like a 6x9 Crown Graphic or B&J Watson or Pressman for around $100, put a relatively modern lens on it like a 100mm Symmar, and if it has a Kalart rangefinder, you could calibrate the rangefinder to the lens.

Film flatness I would say is the biggest issue with old folders. Even if they have a 105mm Apo-Lanthar, film flatness is what makes them tourist cameras.

There is also the fact that a 6x9 folder is a relatively lightly built camera with the lens 105mm away from the film. When I had a Bessa II, I found it took considerable practice to hold the camera in the horizontal position without getting some camera shake. In the vertical position I was okay, and on a tripod it was beautiful. Maybe if you've got big hands it will be easier. The left-handed orientation of the Bessa II also was a problem for me.
 
Actually that Crown Graphic idea is a good one. The baby graphics (2x3 == 6x9) are quite affordable, but you have to use sheet film (J&C sells it). However, you can get a 4x5 in okay condition inyour price range, then throw a graflok 6x9 roll film back on there and you're set.

allan
 
Hi to all ,

Thanks for all input, seems 6X9 is a folder thing. A Bessa II looks fine indeed,rather seducing.
Crown Graphic isn't that popular here, I'LL check the offers tho. Thanks for the link too, this camera looks as I imagine mine to look ! -))

I am surpised to get the film flatness prob confirmed so promptly, seems more serious than I thought it would be .
Are there cameras better than others at this issue ? 6X6 has this prob too, the only thing one can do is to put the roll in, shoot it completely and immediately.

Thanks again, going to certo 6 now, :))

bertram
 
I'd think a modern camera like the Fuji rangefinders would be better in terms of film flatness, but they're also much bulkier.

The best film flatness I've experienced is with Linhof Super-Rollex rollfilm backs, but these are bulky, heavy things that by themselves without a camera or lens weigh more than a Bessa II.
 
With your budget you should be able to get something quite nice!

If you want a good user, try and avoid those cameras favoured by collectors - there is no point paying a collector's premium :rolleyes:

A Moskva 5, assuming you get a good one, can be very good. Handholding in landscape mode is not always the easiest at first, but you will find you get better. Portrait mode is much easier. The lens is very capable and you get a coupled RF (although separate VF/RF windows).

Another good camera is the Zeiss Ikonta 524/2 with either the Novar or Tessar lens. I find it much easier to handhold than the Moskva, a little lighter too, but the RF is uncoupled (not really a problem). The Novar lens performs very nicely, and is not so sought after by collectors as the Tessar, so is usually much cheaper. You can see some results in my gallery here.

To keep the film flatness issue at bay, only wind on just before you take the shot & after you have opened the camera. I've not experienced any problems when using this technique.
 
If you go for a bessa II try to get a Color Heliar one, or at least a Color Skopar.
There is people that swears for the Vaskar one, but personally I'd avoid the triplet lens, also because the resale value may not be that good.

Of course if you can find an Apo-Lanthat one at a reasonable price then go for it, but I think they go for well over $1000.
 
I wouldn't recommend the Mamiya Press to be honest. It's true what MacCaulay says that it can produce great images but the Press is a pain in the ass to work with. It's bulky and the rangefindersystem is a hell. If I were you I would look for a Fuji 6x9.
 
caspert79 said:
I wouldn't recommend the Mamiya Press to be honest. It's true what MacCaulay says that it can produce great images but the Press is a pain in the ass to work with. It's bulky and the rangefindersystem is a hell. If I were you I would look for a Fuji 6x9.
Click to expand...

Even the Fuji 6x9 is not exactly a lightweight!

I still think a good folder is the best compromise between quality and portability.
 
I had a 690 fuji and loved it. it's robust and super fine glass. You're on the fringe of price though. You might have a problem getting one for that. If you would settle for a 6x7 you might find a early model non MLU pentax 6x7 with either a 90mm or 105 with standard prism for around $500. I used pentax 6x7 for aerials for many years and felt they were top notch optically and mechanically. They handle like a big 35mm slr.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
 
Since no one has mentioned them yet: What is the scoop on the Bronica ETR/ETRS series? They seem to be conspicuously less expensive than other MF SLR's.
 
Maybe a little off the wall, but you can look into picking up a Kodak medalist II and having someone like ken Ruth or Essex Camera convert it to 120 rollfilm. The lens is supposedly excellent and the helical mount should be a more stable and reliable lens mount than on a folder.
 
I would just mention that rangefinder on a 6x9 is a must if you want good results. Focusing a 110mm lens by the scale is not too convenient.
 
varjag said:
I would just mention that rangefinder on a 6x9 is a must if you want good results. Focusing a 110mm lens by the scale is not too convenient.
Click to expand...

Yey, I thought about this already and I think too that the RF is a MUST for a 6x9 and it's FLs tho I am not very fond of having sensitive mechanical RF elements built into a folder. Should be a robust and forgiving design.

Bertram
 
My Baldalux folder cost me about $80 or so from Igor in Cleveland and has produced excellent results. It's a scale focusing West German camera with a nice 105 mm F4.5 Schneider Kreuznach lens in a Prontor shutter (top speed 1/250). A nice feature of this 120 camera is the 4.5X6 mask that fits in the 6X9 opening. With a little experience, you can estimate distances. The camera is solid and has no film flatness problem that I've been able to detect. I'm not using the camera very much, so if anyone is interested, let me know. It has a beautiful brown case and is complete with the removable 4.5X6 mask. --Dave Kinchen
 
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