tmessenger
Established
I've been fiddling around with longer lenses on my R-D1 specifically a Canon 85/2 and a Leica Elmar 90-C. I really like the Elmar for its small size, low weight and very good IQ but was about to give up because I didn't want to go to an external finder for accurate framing. Well I just decided to see if I could add some sort of a reference to the existing finder. I more or less calculate where the 90mm frame lines should be in relation to the existing 50mm lines and popped the top and had a look at the bright line system. It's two brass plates that have lines machined in them and they move in such a way to allow light to pass through and project the bright lines on a mirror. I worked out the distance from the corners of the 50mm lines in the plate and marked up two diagonal location and drilled two very tiny holes through the plates. I now have two small round lights projected on the viewfinder that are close to the 90mm frame. In practice this works quite well and I can get framing very close with my 90mm now.
The biggest problem I had was I didn't want to take the bright line machine apart it's small and delicate so I just drilled the holes with the plates mounted. These plates are quite flexible and I kept breaking the tiny bit (oh well learning curve).
Also I deactivated the dial lock while I was in there , thanks to RichC for the idea.
Tim
The biggest problem I had was I didn't want to take the bright line machine apart it's small and delicate so I just drilled the holes with the plates mounted. These plates are quite flexible and I kept breaking the tiny bit (oh well learning curve).
Also I deactivated the dial lock while I was in there , thanks to RichC for the idea.
Tim
jim_buchanan
Established
Oh, man, you are cooking! When I had my top plate off that day, I thought about greater than 50mm frame lines, but I was overwhelmed with the other stuff.
So the 2 holes represent the top left and bottom right edges of 90mm or something like that? Used a dremel with super fine drill and the bit broke? Do the 2 holes appear with all 3 frame lines, if you drilled all the way through both plates? My thought was to get the frame line parts from a Bessa3.
I unscrewed the screw holding the AE lock mechanism and placed a rubber washer on the shaft and screwed it back, thereby keeping the lock finger depressed down. That AE un-lock is a great mod.
So the 2 holes represent the top left and bottom right edges of 90mm or something like that? Used a dremel with super fine drill and the bit broke? Do the 2 holes appear with all 3 frame lines, if you drilled all the way through both plates? My thought was to get the frame line parts from a Bessa3.
I unscrewed the screw holding the AE lock mechanism and placed a rubber washer on the shaft and screwed it back, thereby keeping the lock finger depressed down. That AE un-lock is a great mod.
Adam-T
Event Photographer
You would think that in a powered camera like the RD1 and M8 that they`d use an LCD overlay in the viewfinder for almost infinate frame lines in the same way that the Nikon F80 and the DSLRs do for gridlines - I guess with DRFs being a rare thing that it hasn`t developed that far but it`d work, even without interfering with the RF patch - I certainly hope the Ikon Digital when it arrives has that ! ... Just a thought
tmessenger
Established
Yes the two holes are placed in the upper left and the lower right. I drilled these with the frame lines at 50mm and the two circles only come up with the 50mm lines. I used a bit that I had for re-jetting carburetors, remember those? In retrospect it would have been a neater job to remove the plates so they had backing when drilling.
Both of the longer lenses I've tried had to be collimated to get accurate focusing at close distances. Both only required about .001" but when you've got less the 1" of DOF they have to be right on.
I just took out the dial lock mechanism and de-tensioned the detent spring, works great now.
Both of the longer lenses I've tried had to be collimated to get accurate focusing at close distances. Both only required about .001" but when you've got less the 1" of DOF they have to be right on.
I just took out the dial lock mechanism and de-tensioned the detent spring, works great now.
jim_buchanan said:
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jim_buchanan
Established
I think folks forget about the need for the lenses to be collimated for infinity, first, before accurate focus is possible. My 135/f4 is amazingly accurate at 5 feet. It's the frame lines I have to work on now.
After that, it's the close focusing adjustment of the R-D1 rangedfinder. I know some are off and need to be sent for repair, but it's my guess the close focusing adjustment is OK on a large % of cameras. Any lens mis-collimation and a bad infinity adjustment could mask the real cause of close focus/front or back focusing.
I was put off years ago by the out of focus results I was getting with the M3, and thought my eyes were going bad. Of course shooting portraits with a longer rangefinder lens was the challenge.
After that, it's the close focusing adjustment of the R-D1 rangedfinder. I know some are off and need to be sent for repair, but it's my guess the close focusing adjustment is OK on a large % of cameras. Any lens mis-collimation and a bad infinity adjustment could mask the real cause of close focus/front or back focusing.
I was put off years ago by the out of focus results I was getting with the M3, and thought my eyes were going bad. Of course shooting portraits with a longer rangefinder lens was the challenge.
tmessenger
Established
I've adjusted my rangefinder to a nit picking degree, and with these used lenses I'm just collimating all of them to the finder. It works.
Tim
Tim
RichC
Well-known
Tim: a few questions:
• What was the exact size of the drill bit, and would you have used a smaller one in retrospect?
• Do you find the "bright holes" distracting?
• Presumably, the "bright holes" are the same brightness as the frame lines?
• How large are the "bright holes" in the viewfinder compared with the bright line thickness?
• How neat do the "bright holes" appear in the viewfinder - are they perfectly circular?
TIA!
• What was the exact size of the drill bit, and would you have used a smaller one in retrospect?
• Do you find the "bright holes" distracting?
• Presumably, the "bright holes" are the same brightness as the frame lines?
• How large are the "bright holes" in the viewfinder compared with the bright line thickness?
• How neat do the "bright holes" appear in the viewfinder - are they perfectly circular?
TIA!
tmessenger
Established
Well lets see the first bit was smaller then the width of the original frame lines, but I broke that bit so I ended up with a bit a little larger the the original frame lines. I broke both bits and pitched them so can't give you an exact size.
I think the holes are less distracting then another set of bright lines would be.
Yes same brightness
Little larger but only because of drill bit problems.
The holes are a bit offset (not perfectly round) because you have to dill through two plates and the plates flex. It would be better to have backing behind the plates when drilling but you have to get the thing apart for that.
I could tape over the holes with aluminum foil duct tape and then punch a hole through the tape to tune up the hole size, but they are OK as-is.
Tim
I think the holes are less distracting then another set of bright lines would be.
Yes same brightness
Little larger but only because of drill bit problems.
The holes are a bit offset (not perfectly round) because you have to dill through two plates and the plates flex. It would be better to have backing behind the plates when drilling but you have to get the thing apart for that.
I could tape over the holes with aluminum foil duct tape and then punch a hole through the tape to tune up the hole size, but they are OK as-is.
Tim
RichC said:
RichC
Well-known
Thanks Tim = much appreciated. <Off to find some drill bits...>
RichC
Well-known
Wish me luck...!
I have in front of me: one R-D1, assorted tools, a newly bought set of micro drill bits, and sketches and notes of where to drill two holes!
If I can work out how to use my friend's digicam,* I'll take photos.
[*It has a stupidly large number of cryptic buttons, and a trillion-level menu!]
I have in front of me: one R-D1, assorted tools, a newly bought set of micro drill bits, and sketches and notes of where to drill two holes!
If I can work out how to use my friend's digicam,* I'll take photos.
[*It has a stupidly large number of cryptic buttons, and a trillion-level menu!]
tmessenger
Established
For the 90mm lens I used this drill pattern: The 50mm frame line corners are very close to 10mm apart on the diagonal. I drilled in 2mm from each corner on that diagonal.
Good luck.
Tim
Good luck.
Tim
RichC said:Wish me luck...!
I have in front of me: one R-D1, assorted tools, a newly bought set of micro drill bits, and sketches and notes of where to drill two holes!
If I can work out how to use my friend's digicam,* I'll take photos.
[*It has a stupidly large number of cryptic buttons, and a trillion-level menu!]
RichC
Well-known
The patient has survived the surgery!
I now have two "bright spots" corresponding to the corners of my 90 mm Elmar.
Accuracy of correspondence
I was aiming for 95% coverage when focused at 3 m.
Correspondence with test photo: the lower spot is slightly (95%) inboard of the photo corner; the upper spot is about 80% inboard of the photo corner. The lower spot is placed perfectly, but the upper spot should've been further out - because it wasn't drilled square on.
Although it's slightly annoying that the upper spot is misplaced, it's not a major issue as it's easy to estimate the correct position (add the width of a 50 mm frameline corner). (I've always done this as a matter of course when taking photos with the R-D1, for greater framing accuracy (e.g. I always add on the with of a 35 mm frameline corner when shooting with my 35 mm lens).)
Appearance
There are now two bright circles with a diameter matching the frameline width. The lower spot is the same brightness as the framelines, but the upper is dimmer. (This again suggests that the upper hole was not drilled square on: each spot is created by drilling through two plates plus the frameline mask, and if the holes are drilled at a diagonal, the hole in the mask will not be fully illuminated.)
Comments on the procedure
• I essentially followed Tim's instructions.
• Tim suggested drilling the holes 2 mm diagonally in from the 50 mm frameline corners. To be on the safe side, I checked this by examining a 90 mm Elmar photo, and working out where its corners would fall in relation to the 50 mm frameline corners. For 95% coverage (to give a little safety factor), this worked out to 2.25 mm.
• In addition to the two brass plates (painted black) mentioned by Tim, you also have to drill through a (plastic?) frameline mask.
• As everything's so tiny, I found a hands-free magnifying glass useful. Also, place the camera upside down before drilling, to keep brass waste from falling into the camera.
• I used a Dremel and a 0.30 mm drill bit. Best to have a spare bit as they break easily. Also, try and drill through all three parts in one procedure, without stopping.
• I carefully cleaned off the burrs from each drill exit hole in the frameline mask, as I found that these caused unwanted reflections. Similarly, the bright brass from inside the holes also caught the light. I painted the interior of the holes with matt black paint, running a nylon bristle through them immediately afterwards to keep them clear. This reduced the unwanted reflections significantly. (Note: when painting the frameline mask, take great care not to get paint on the framelines!)
Postscript
The bright holes can be removed at any time by filling in / covering up the drill holes.
At some stage, if I can be bothered, I'll re-drill the upper holes more accurately. The skewed hole probably occurred because I had to restart drilling a couple of times owing to a snapped drill bit.
Edited. Decided not to be lazy: filled in misdrilled hole in mask with matt black paint, and drilled a more accurate hole. Both holes now cover 95% of the view.
I now have two "bright spots" corresponding to the corners of my 90 mm Elmar.
Accuracy of correspondence
I was aiming for 95% coverage when focused at 3 m.
Correspondence with test photo: the lower spot is slightly (95%) inboard of the photo corner; the upper spot is about 80% inboard of the photo corner. The lower spot is placed perfectly, but the upper spot should've been further out - because it wasn't drilled square on.
Although it's slightly annoying that the upper spot is misplaced, it's not a major issue as it's easy to estimate the correct position (add the width of a 50 mm frameline corner). (I've always done this as a matter of course when taking photos with the R-D1, for greater framing accuracy (e.g. I always add on the with of a 35 mm frameline corner when shooting with my 35 mm lens).)
Appearance
There are now two bright circles with a diameter matching the frameline width. The lower spot is the same brightness as the framelines, but the upper is dimmer. (This again suggests that the upper hole was not drilled square on: each spot is created by drilling through two plates plus the frameline mask, and if the holes are drilled at a diagonal, the hole in the mask will not be fully illuminated.)
Comments on the procedure
• I essentially followed Tim's instructions.
• Tim suggested drilling the holes 2 mm diagonally in from the 50 mm frameline corners. To be on the safe side, I checked this by examining a 90 mm Elmar photo, and working out where its corners would fall in relation to the 50 mm frameline corners. For 95% coverage (to give a little safety factor), this worked out to 2.25 mm.
• In addition to the two brass plates (painted black) mentioned by Tim, you also have to drill through a (plastic?) frameline mask.
• As everything's so tiny, I found a hands-free magnifying glass useful. Also, place the camera upside down before drilling, to keep brass waste from falling into the camera.
• I used a Dremel and a 0.30 mm drill bit. Best to have a spare bit as they break easily. Also, try and drill through all three parts in one procedure, without stopping.
• I carefully cleaned off the burrs from each drill exit hole in the frameline mask, as I found that these caused unwanted reflections. Similarly, the bright brass from inside the holes also caught the light. I painted the interior of the holes with matt black paint, running a nylon bristle through them immediately afterwards to keep them clear. This reduced the unwanted reflections significantly. (Note: when painting the frameline mask, take great care not to get paint on the framelines!)
Postscript
The bright holes can be removed at any time by filling in / covering up the drill holes.
At some stage, if I can be bothered, I'll re-drill the upper holes more accurately. The skewed hole probably occurred because I had to restart drilling a couple of times owing to a snapped drill bit.
Edited. Decided not to be lazy: filled in misdrilled hole in mask with matt black paint, and drilled a more accurate hole. Both holes now cover 95% of the view.
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