9AM, 9/9/09 announcement

[Keith]

I hope the M9 is a complete breakaway from the classic M shape as was the failed M5. It could turn out to be a brilliant camera but the faithful would reject it and Solms would have to discount the hell out of it to get it into the market in any numbers.

I can dream! 😛

 

[wongyboi]

I love the base plate on the M's and M8. The 2 features people have mentioned - EVF and AF, although make sense to have in a modern camera isn't necessary 'right' for a Leica M. The Leica M differentiate themselves, being more traditional and simple. NOT having those features is how we appreciate the M camera, INCLUDING those features would make it another Contax, Hexar etc. Going digital was inevitable to maintain the company.

A niche market is niche for a reason.

 

[Roger Hicks]

There are certainly people around here that said that a FF RF . . . was not technically possibly, or am I wrong?
...

Without reading every single thread again, it's hard to say, but I think you are in fact wrong.

Leica has long said that there WILL be a full-frame version, when the technical problems are solved. Which they weren't before (and may not have been now, though the M9 seems increasingly likely). Kodak has said the same.

Which bit of that didn't you understand?

Many doubted it would happen this year, it is true. But the 'impossibility' referred to sticking an existing SLR sensor into a camera with a flange-to-sensor distance of under 30mm. Some maintained this could be solved with software. With ever-improving sensors this may be true. Or it may not. Do you know enough about sensor design to give an authoritative answer? And if so, exactly when it might have become possible?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I love the base plate on the M's and M8. The 2 features people have mentioned - EVF and AF, although make sense to have in a modern camera isn't necessary 'right' for a Leica M. The Leica M differentiate themselves, being more traditional and simple. NOT having those features is how we appreciate the M camera, INCLUDING those features would make it another Contax, Hexar etc. Going digital was inevitable to maintain the company.

A niche market is niche for a reason.

No, no, no. What the world needs is yet another me-too camera. Look, I've got a brilliant idea. Build the Visoflex into the M9 and then you'll get rid of that whole tiresome mechanical rangefinder mechanism, AND you can use any old SLR sensor...

Seriously, I couldn't agree more with you.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Trius]

Roger, well I do think there were those here who said a FF RF was not possible, but like you, I am not going to read through all the threads. 😉

In any event, Damaso did refer to those who said it would not happen this year. IOW, direct experience/knowledge is preferable to Internet speculation, eh? 😀

 

[Ken Ford]

I'm with Traut and betting on a Micro 4/3 system based on the impending Panny GF-1.

 

[Harry Lime]

They need the flexibility to redesign the body, but I don't think they can get away with it. This is the company that put a removable base on the M8.

What's so wrong with the removable baseplate?

For one thing It helps keep the sides of the body uncluttered, so you're not always resting your hand on a door or something.

It's also part of the Leica design tradition. Getting rid of it would be like designing a Rolls Royce without a grill. I like the fact that the M series is not a cookie cutter copy of whatever the Japanese or Art Center is putting out there this week.

 

[outfitter]

What a nice first post here 😕

But why is it non-affordable? On my table sits my M8. It's real. So at least one person in the world can afford a Leica.

A business model based on selling to just you doesn't work and hasn't worked for Leica for years. When Leica was the pro camera everyone who could afford them and wanted what the pros used would buy Leica which was the gold standard. Now Leica has lost the "used by pros" sex appeal and that crowd has shifted to pro digital slrs or whatever. Serious amateurs, like those who post on this forum, are not enough to sustain Leica in the long run.

It doesn't help that Leica has always been electrically challenged. Whether or not Leica plans a M9 they would be well advised to perfect the electronics and software and drop the retro crap in favor of something that works properly in terms of form and function. A pro digital camera is not a romantic evocation of past glory it requires different shapes and materials to truly be a pro instrument. After all the M series was successful because it was a game changer - i.e. better than any other RF camera before or since - not because it evoked the Leica II (which it went our of its way not to be). This is not the age of brass and steel and its not necessarily required or desirable to make an electronic camera using 1960s technology.

So my advice is don't make an M make a digital RF from scratch.

 

[b.espahbod]

why ppl expect a d3x from leica ??? well go and buy a nikon or canon. isnt rangefinder something that belongs to oldtimes? by the way S2 is out its modern it doesnot belong to brass age and it carries a ProOnly pricetag.

 

[leicashot]

why ppl expect a d3x from leica ??? well go and buy a nikon or canon. isnt rangefinder something that belongs to oldtimes? by the way S2 is out its modern it doesnot belong to brass age and it carries a ProOnly pricetag.

Well said. People don't like the price of the S2? Then realize it wasn't designed for your market segment. Leica's were never designed to please the mass market, and I hope they never will. Keep the manual, simple and classic, focing the user to 'think', a skill that has diminished somewhat due to the digital/consumer revolution.

 

[leicashot]

A business model based on selling to just you doesn't work and hasn't worked for Leica for years. When Leica was the pro camera everyone who could afford them and wanted what the pros used would buy Leica which was the gold standard. Now Leica has lost the "used by pros" sex appeal and that crowd has shifted to pro digital slrs or whatever. Serious amateurs, like those who post on this forum, are not enough to sustain Leica in the long run.

It doesn't help that Leica has always been electrically challenged. Whether or not Leica plans a M9 they would be well advised to perfect the electronics and software and drop the retro crap in favor of something that works properly in terms of form and function. A pro digital camera is not a romantic evocation of past glory it requires different shapes and materials to truly be a pro instrument. After all the M series was successful because it was a game changer - i.e. better than any other RF camera before or since - not because it evoked the Leica II (which it went our of its way not to be). This is not the age of brass and steel and its not necessarily required or desirable to make an electronic camera using 1960s technology.

So my advice is don't make an M make a digital RF from scratch.

They why would 'you' even be interested in Leica then? Just for the optics? Informed/experienced Leica users know the true Leica appeal comes from it's 'simplistic'form, and NOT it's ability to 'con'form.

Take the true essence away from the traditional M, and it's no longer a Leica, yet another manufacturer that has listened to too much garbage on internat forums. People who are demanding a auto everthing, conforming Leica don't posses the skill set to be able to handle the M competently. If they could, there wouldn't be an issue. Want a small auto everything camera? Wait for Canon's G20. I believe the rumour is that it will make flowers smile and people pose for you....heck it'll probably drive your car for you too...as long as you whine for it on internet forums...I'm sure Canon will conform.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. Leica's were never designed to please the mass market, and I hope they never will..

Exactly. Leica buyers ignore the mass market 'crap' (to borrow from another post). If you don't want a Leica, DON'T BUY ONE. But equally, don't expect Leica buyers to buy auto-exposure, live-view, disposable cameras, just because crap sells.

If you don't like Leica, it's not your problem if they go bust. So why wish their disappearance on those who do appreciate them and want them to stay in business?

Cheers,

R.

 

[rxmd]

Leica's were never designed to please the mass market, and I hope they never will. Keep the manual, simple and classic, focing the user to 'think', a skill that has diminished somewhat due to the digital/consumer revolution.

You do realize that one reason the M3 was successful was because in comparison to contemporary cameras it did not force the user to think? Because it gave the photographer a convenient integrated view- and rangefinder for easy focusing of those 90 and 135 lenses and enabled him to do away with all those external viewfinders and rangefinders? Because there was an integrated system where you could pop a 35 or a close-up 50 in front and focus with the same viewfinder, or a shutter-speed-priority lightmeter on top that interfaced nicely with the internal mechanism of the camera?

It was a wildly modern camera then, all built around convenience and ease of use. Forcing your user to do something is a great way to alienate more people than you attract.

 

[Traut]

Well said. People don't like the price of the S2? Then realize it wasn't designed for your market segment. Leica's were never designed to please the mass market, and I hope they never will. Keep the manual, simple and classic, focing the user to 'think', a skill that has diminished somewhat due to the digital/consumer revolution.

Actually, Leica always wanted it both ways i.e. minilux, cm, c-lux, d-lux, cl, etc.

If the new Leica is a rebadged GF-1 what would be a price a Leica user would pay? The Panny will probably by $1,000 +/- with the 20mm or equiv. One of the lenses shown had a Leica name on it. Would it be attractive at $2,000 with a Leica 20mm? No RF but an EVF.

My bet is we will see one within 10 days.

 

[leicashot]

Exactly. Leica buyers ignore the mass market 'crap' (to borrow from another post). If you don't want a Leica, DON'T BUY ONE. But equally, don't expect Leica buyers to buy auto-exposure, live-view, disposable cameras, just because crap sells.

If you don't like Leica, it's not your problem if they go bust. So why wish their disappearance on those who do appreciate them and want them to stay in business?

Cheers,

R.

here, here. Many may think I am a traditionalist which is far from the truth. I use Canon digital for 90% of my professional work as it's better suited to the work I do. But when I pull out the M, I do so for it's traditionalist approach, which changes the way I think and shoot. It gives me a freedom, feeling and satisfaction that the Canon doesn't. I don't expect non-experienced Leica M users to understand, especially if their first M was an M8.

 

[leicashot]

Actually, Leica always wanted it both ways i.e. minilux, cm, c-lux, d-lux, cl, etc.

If the new Leica is a rebadged GF-1 what would be a price a Leica user would pay? The Panny will probably by $1,000 +/- with the 20mm or equiv. One of the lenses shown had a Leica name on it. Would it be attractive at $2,000 with a Leica 20mm? No RF but an EVF.

My bet is we will see one within 10 days.

Leica may release a rebadged GF-1 (hope they don't), but not at the 9-9-9 anouncement.

 

[Traut]

Like Gill Clancey (is he still alive?) used to say:

"Let's get it on!"

 

[aizan]

the leica m used to appeal to the mass market, but the market has moved on, and leica culture has changed.

what we've seen from leica suggests that they will continue occupying the upper end of the market, but they will increase the number of markets they play in. leica said they weren't going to get involved in micro 4/3, but in the same breath, they basically announce a micro 4/3 lens. i'm betting we'll see more lenses and a rebranded panasonic gf1. that, i think, will satisfy a huge pent up demand for a "poor man's leica," and the camera will actually say leica on it. just don't expect it to have a leica m viewfinder.

 

[leicashot]

the leica m used to appeal to the mass market, but the market has moved on, and leica culture has changed.

what we've seen from leica suggests that they will continue occupying the upper end of the market, but they will increase the number of markets they play in. leica said they weren't going to get involved in micro 4/3, but in the same breath, they basically announce a micro 4/3 lens. i'm betting we'll see more lenses and a rebranded panasonic gf1. that, i think, will satisfy a huge pent up demand for a "poor man's leica," and the camera will actually say leica on it.

I don't recall Leica 'making' the micro 4/3 lens

 

[aizan]

45/2.8 micro-elmarit.

and i just re-read the leica future plan thread, so you can cross off the rebadged gf1. it'll just be lenses. =(