huntjump
Well-known
I have to agree here with uhoh7. Yes it is the oldest profession, and to some extent people need to make decisions on their own...but it is pretty common knowledge that MANY prostitutes simply were either born into it, sold into it, live in such poor conditions are almost "forced" into it out of desperation and others are simply pimped into it.
Maybe there are a lot of thai prostitutes who "enjoy" the work they do, but i find it hard to believe that is the majority or even the mean. I have never been to Thailand, so maybe I am mistaken (and ill stand corrected).
I just found a male (i assume a westerner living in thailand) arguing that prostitutes there chose their career because they love sleeping with thousands of horny men from all over the world for money.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Ask her what she prefers, getting twenty bucks to pose or twenty bucks doing the usual stuff.
It's baby steps, but it's a step.
craygc
Well-known
Thailand is culturally complicated on many levels. Almost no tourists and only a few of the foreign residents even start to understand it. The commercial sex aspect is woven through this culture both historically and economically and what may surprise many is that the greater proportion of the industry caters for locals. Thai thinking, priorities and values in general just don't align with western thinking at all, and as such the safer approach is not to even try an analyse it because the probability that you'll be wrong is extremely high...
gdmcclintock
Well-known
This is one of the most pompous posts I have read in a long time.
Who decides what constitutes moral and political honesty"?
Teuthida
Well-known
Been there. Done that.
I spent two years documenting the transsexual prostitutes of Paris in the Bois de Boulogne. Got boxes and boxes of negatives. Threatened, assaulted, robbed. Had a great time.
Can't publish any of it because i have no model releases.
IMO, its much more humane to be paying these people to photograph them than it is to be using them for sex. You may disagree.
I spent two years documenting the transsexual prostitutes of Paris in the Bois de Boulogne. Got boxes and boxes of negatives. Threatened, assaulted, robbed. Had a great time.
Can't publish any of it because i have no model releases.
IMO, its much more humane to be paying these people to photograph them than it is to be using them for sex. You may disagree.
Steve M.
Veteran
I didn't look at the photos (seen plenty of prostitutes in my time, both the banker type and the preferred working versions), but I fail to see how photographing them for a fee is exploiting them. Ever tried to get people to pose for you w/o paying them? Even the cat expects a treat.
I doubt the photographer is naive enough to think he's changing anyone's life, but if he wants to shoot the girls for money (or do anything else they agree upon doing), that's OK w/ me. Why is this discussion about him anyway? I'll bet he'd be surprised.
I doubt the photographer is naive enough to think he's changing anyone's life, but if he wants to shoot the girls for money (or do anything else they agree upon doing), that's OK w/ me. Why is this discussion about him anyway? I'll bet he'd be surprised.
igi
Well-known
Just because he is a banker?
Zorkiiglaza
Established
Are we any better? Tourist going to 3rd world countries and photographing the poor. Even your camera costs more than they make in 1 year!!
H C-B photographed prostitutes-- the famous photo of the women sticking their heads out of the windows. I understand that Mary Ellen Mark gave her Indian prostitutes televisions as payment to photograph them and their Johns. There is her book "Streetwise"
There are the doctors and lawyers who get bored with their lives and retire and buy th best camera equipment, attend expensive workshops and then go off to places like Bhutan were few people can go.
They are photographing what others are not. Possibly because it is everyday life to them. The outsider photographer is capturing a part of life which we are generally insulated against by our wealth. My friends in Kazakhstan find it interesting what I photograph-documenting their villages. Others ask why are you photographing dirty little children. Yet another photographer who I accompanied to a festival figured out what I was doing and told me "you are documenting a part of our society that no one cares about at the present time but will be very important in 20 years. People are busy trying to survive.
Did the pea pickers (Migrant Mother) in the farm field benefit from having their photographs taken by D. Lange?
But we look at these photos and can see what the plight of the unemployed was like during the depression and enact security nets for people in similar situations for the future
Its easy to sit back and throw mud. The man could be out spending his money on other things but he is not. He is documenting - "Witnessing" the disenfranchised people of society.
for better or worst
H C-B photographed prostitutes-- the famous photo of the women sticking their heads out of the windows. I understand that Mary Ellen Mark gave her Indian prostitutes televisions as payment to photograph them and their Johns. There is her book "Streetwise"
There are the doctors and lawyers who get bored with their lives and retire and buy th best camera equipment, attend expensive workshops and then go off to places like Bhutan were few people can go.
They are photographing what others are not. Possibly because it is everyday life to them. The outsider photographer is capturing a part of life which we are generally insulated against by our wealth. My friends in Kazakhstan find it interesting what I photograph-documenting their villages. Others ask why are you photographing dirty little children. Yet another photographer who I accompanied to a festival figured out what I was doing and told me "you are documenting a part of our society that no one cares about at the present time but will be very important in 20 years. People are busy trying to survive.
Did the pea pickers (Migrant Mother) in the farm field benefit from having their photographs taken by D. Lange?
But we look at these photos and can see what the plight of the unemployed was like during the depression and enact security nets for people in similar situations for the future
Its easy to sit back and throw mud. The man could be out spending his money on other things but he is not. He is documenting - "Witnessing" the disenfranchised people of society.
for better or worst
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emayoh
Established
I find it highly objectionable that anyone considers this exploitative. I applaud anyone who uses a camera to tell the honest stories they come across. I find it very difficult to find the truth exploitative in any sense -- especially sans explicit monetary gain. And, as a photographer I find that accusation very insulting and damaging to the future of the craft. Those are the attitudes that lead to the shrill banning of all photography of people without consent.
So, I agree with andredossantos
So, I agree with andredossantos
EdwardKaraa
Well-known
I am very disappointed that for voicing my opinion, uhoh7 that I also know form the FM alt forum calls me a pimp, and huntjump insinuates that I am a client. Thank you guys, greatly appreciated.
lic4
Well-known
I respect your criticism of my post. This is the type of criticism I mean as being what we need amongst photographers. No one is above criticism, and maybe we all need more accountability in creating work that has moral and political honesty. You ask "who decides" what that is - I'd rather actively think about what such honesty is, so that we stop playing the rules of political correctness (everyone entitled to their own truths, definitions, and actions) and search for pragmatic action that brings results and true change.
Many of the posts seem to absolve this photographer on the grounds of the political correctness I mention. That the man is entitled to this self-professed hobby out of free choice, the man has proper motivations which is all that matters, mysterious Thai culture makes prostitution gray, prostitutes choose their line of work and we are self righteous to judge...
It is as though any action is fine as long as one engages in the system of free capital by its rules - that this is the objectivity that should render ultimate judgment: photographer engages in an objective system of free capital thus breaks no rules, provides practical relief by giving twenty bucks to a prostitute so one shouldn't worry, he doesn't make money off of the work which means he isn't exploiting (a point that he seems to feel the need to tell them, which is another red flag altogether).
I think his work is thematic of the way philanthropy is seen culturally: predominantly an act done by those in privilege, who have come out on top so they can help those who have come out on bottom, allowing one to die with a free conscience, a great number of admirers, and a lot of money. Sometimes the philanthropists are featured in the New York Times, even if the term philanthropy means 'love of humanity,' and the vast majority of time one spent in life was not done in love for humanity but for strengthening a system that creates the disparity that gives them a chance to be saints; in this case, allocating wealth for oneself or for already wealthy clients.
I have no problem with anyone taking photographs of prosititutes. I think Araki's work is shamelessly honest. I would also not raise any stink about this work if it weren't presented with the angle that here is a man who is doing something good for society. Frankly, it doesn't help society and just serves to reinforce the type of powerlessness that people on the margins have and the wealth of choices and freedoms the privileged have to engage in a "hobby." Someone said these women should be given a chance to take portraits - now that would be something! That would be political!
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EdwardKaraa
Well-known
Your analysis is very accurate. It is also interesting to note that an average "working girl" makes in one night the equivalent of a one month salary in an office job, not only in Thailand, but also in western Europe. The high class prostitutes who frequent the circles of guys like DSK and Berlusconi probably can make more than a year's income of most guys on this forum. They are in this profession by choice, and the money is very attractive.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Ironically the banker or Wall Street trader amplifies the different status between the subject and photographer.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Bruce Davidson gave prints to his subjects when he documented the poverty on East 100th Street.
Cal
easyrider
Photo addict
No one asked whether he uses a rangefinder and film or digital! 
)
)
dazedgonebye
Veteran
No one asked whether he uses a rangefinder and film or digital!
Finally, a relevant question!
uhoh7
Veteran
Edward, I did NOT call you a pimp, I just asked. Extremely oblivious post you wrote made wonder---"they enjoy it".
Your personal threshhold for victimhood seems quite low. Yet a battered kid who ends up in very dangerous streets......it's the free market!
No hard feelings on my side---just responding to the sentiment in the post.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
No one asked whether he uses a rangefinder and film or digital!
That was answered in the video that was part of the referenced article.
Now it is true that many do not bother to read the article, watch the video, or even read the other posts here before responding themselves.
Easyrider, I did have the same thought as your observation. It is good, is it not?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
As for the original question, I'm with Nelson: "Since this guy is financially successful, is he limited for to what photography projects he can have ?" Are they great pictures? Doesn't look like it. Is he drawing attention to something important? Yes, by the look of it. But why are some people so against what he's doing? Is it because it's not cats and coffee cps?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Sparrow
Veteran
... thankfully Mellon had the answer to those philosophical ramblings?