A bit OT: e-bay feedback, trust and so on

[Pherdinand]

This thing bugged me for a while, and a reply on another post makes me ask your oppinion on it.
DO you think it's correct from the seller's part to leave feedback only after the buyer did?
I think it would be fair for the seller to leave feedback as soon as he got the payment in his hands/account/whatever. As said by someone else, this can be kind of blackmail: seller leaves positive only if he receives positive. Why? The $ he gets probably does not have fungus, scratches, or if it does it's still worth the same.
Of course this is more about trust. But then, more general question: why should the buyer trust the seller more than the other way around? And that's what happens in most cases: seller only sends out the package when he has the payment cleared. The value a honest buyer can lose on a fraudulent seller is exactly the same as the other way around, and still, the buyer is the one that has to trust the seller.

What's your view on this?

 

[kiev4a]

I think that just the way it is. It isn't fair bu as the saying goes, ""Fair' is where Grandma takes her pickles in the fall."

 

[jtzordon]

I know when I have sold on eBay, I've waited until hearing from the buyer before leaving feedback. I'm not really doing so out of lack of trust. I want to make sure the whole transaction goes well. I'm always anxious to hear when the package is delivered and whether or not the buyer is pleased. Not really sure what kind of feedback I would leave if the buyer turned out to be unreasonable and/or quite demanding...so far, so good.

 

[RObert Budding]

Sometimes buyers are unreasonable, too. There is no perfect solution - someone needs to go first, unless eBay institiuted a system that held all feedback until released by both parties. But that isn't perfect, either.

Robert

 

[jtzordon]

I'll certainly agree with sellers being unreasonable as well. I didn't mean I would wait for them to leave feedback; just want to hear they got everything ok. I'm happy to leave the first comment.

 

[jtzordon]

Misread you Robert. I agree, everyone can be unreasonable. I try not to be. As a buyer I try to contact the seller and see how responsive they are, how friendly they are, etc...

 

[Pherdinand]

I don't know The Big Truth; i'm not speaking of an experience of hundreds of e-bay transactions, however the few I had all went like this, and I hear the same from other people.

Of course, if I sell something, hearing from the buyer that all is okay, or not okay, IS necessary. But why before I leave the feedback? Communication should not be restricted to the feedback, i think.
Robert, not showing the feedback until both parties left it would be a good step from e-bay's part.

 

[Flow]

I think it is really unfair for some of those sellers to leave feedbacks only after I leave a feedback for them. Like c'mon they are suppose to leave a feedback right after they get the payment because my feedback is really for how I respond to payment terms and stuff not how satisfied with the item. I had one buyer who claimed a lens in mint condition and I bid on it and he did not leave me a feedback and he was only going to leave one after I did for him. (Ok run on sentence...) Then when I received the lens there was a cluster of microbial life forms (fungus) in the lens...


Flowen

 

[Flow]

P.S. I did not try to finish my story because if I did, there will probably be so much swearing that Jorge might delete me from the forum... 😛


Flowen

 

[JoeFriday]

I've done about 200 transactions on ebay.. almost entirely as a buyer.. my feedback is currently at 100% positive, with 80 entries.. it should be MUCH higher, but I find that most professional sellers don't bother to leave any feedback at all.. and I've come to the same conclusion as Pherdinand.. the seller definitely should leave feedback immediately after receiving payment.. that's the seller's responsibility which compensates the buyer for trusting him enough to send payment

however, quite often, sellers do hold your feedback 'hostage' as their insurance against a negative rating due to product or service dissatisfaction.. which is wrong, IMO.. but obviously we don't live in a perfect world

bottom line: as a seller, I always leave feedback immediately upon receiving payment.. as a buyer, I only leave feedback one the seller does.. or, in the case of the seller giving unusually good service (ie, sending the item very quickly or going out of his way to make sure I'm happy)

generally I've been very happy with ebay sellers.. but occasionally I refuse to leave any feedback due to sloppy service or misleading descriptions.. I don't think I've ever left any negative feedback.. altho I would have in a few cases where the seller was clearly ripping off buyers, but ebay stepped in and shut down the seller's account

 

[sf]

about feedback

about feedback

yes, I think the feedbacks should be saved for the finish of the transaction.
Here is why:

Feedback is what holds Ebay together. Feedback is a rating of how the person, buyer or seller, does business. Payment is only the first step on the buyer's part. If you leave feedback before they have even seen the item, you are gambling that they will not give you trouble about it.

In my most recent case, I sold a Pentax 645NII camera to someone, and we both waited to do our feedback when things were finished ie. I had my money, the buyer had the camera AND they agreed that things were as advertised and had no plans of returning it. Feedback is like a final handshake after the deal is done.

Just imagine if you left feedback for some buyer of a camera. They paid you right away, through CC or whatever, so you left a positive feedback for prompt payment. The aution is closed. Then, they reverse the payment. Well, you are out the auction listing and other possible buyers AND the buyer who just ruined your auction has postive feedback from you. Whoops. Or perhaps you shipped it BEFORE they reversed payment. Ouch. Definitely wait till things are done and both parties are happy before leaving feedback. In the case that something goes wrong, and someone is angry, well, things happen as they will.

 

[RML]

I tend to not leave feedback unless the seller does so first, even when I'm satisfied with the transaction. IMO the fact the seller received my money within hours of the auction should be reason enough for him/her to leave a positive feedback. I, on the other hand, have to wait days if not weeks for my item to show up, after which I can judge for myself whether the item is as described. If not, I will contact the seller to get to some sort of agreement. If all fails I might leave a negative but most likely I'll leave no feedback, which IMO is the safest way for both my own ratings and in case I was unreasonable in my expectations or demands. I only once left a negative because of the rude behaviour of the seller and got retributed in return, which is why my ratings will never again be 100%.

 

[Pherdinand]

themirana, i agree, but i mean "payment is done" when it's completely done, not reversible. Cash in hand.
"If you leave feedback before they have even seen the item, you are gambling that they will not give you trouble about it."
It's again about trust. Why you, as buyer, should trust me that I, as seller, will leave you a positive feedback. Why not the other way around. After all, you trusted me already with sending PAYMENT to me, a complete stranger, right?

 

[Rob]

I have almost 200 feedbacks, 95% sales. When I am paid I ship the item and notify the buyer its on its way. I also inform him I am leaving positive feedback now and would like the same once item is inspected. Some folks just forget to leave feedbacks a lot of times.
Did have a sale recently of a working lightmeter and buyer said the battery check function did not work(it did, fully tested it prior to shipping) and if I did not send $20 to him he would send it back...Sounded like a shakedown so I emailed him the battery check instructions page and told him he could send it back for my evaluation of it before any refund was made. Thats the last I heard from him...

 

[Pherdinand]

OK, Tom, you make a good point there🙂
I still tnink that introducing hidden feedback until left by both the buyer and the seller, would be better.

 

[Little Prince]

Tom makes a good point and Pherdinand has genuine regrets too. Here is one more reason why I think the buyer goes first. As buyer, once you have paid (assuming you use a trackable online service like Paypal) you can prove that you have done so. Therefore the seller is obliged to send you the item. There are some constraints of course. As a seller, if you ship the item first you really can't prove anything and the buyer can just refuse to pay. At the most you can show that you sent a package to the buyer but can't prove its contents anyway.

I mention this because a weird situation occurred a couple of years back when I bought RAM on the bay. The seller advertised as a particular kind of RAM and sent me a different kind. What he sent me was worth about half what I had paid for not to mentioned incompatibility with my computer. I was obviously peeved and told him he had probably shipped the wrong item. This guy just said it was all he had and he *thought* he had read the label correct! I told him he hadn't and therefore should just allow me to return it for a refund. Next he replied saying he was selling for someone else and I should contact that person. This was so ridiculous I didn't know what to say. I went to Paypal but they said it was a 'not as described' problem and the seller didn't have enough feedbacks to be covered. So they would do nothing. I had paid close to $200 and I wasn't going to just accept that so I just charged back from my CC after sending the item back to Paypal. This was entirely unfortunate and I didn't even leave negative for the seller out of fear of suffering a retaliation. The point of this story is that when I was shipping the item back to Paypal it just occured to me that they didn't know anything about it and would just pass it on to the seller. So what would happen if I kept the RAM and returned a pencil or some c*ap. Of course I did no such thing, but it just made me realize that you can't prove the contents of your shipment and that leads to potential complications if someone wants to be nasty.

 

[titrisol]

I'm the one saying that is blackmail, because me as a buyer feel like a customer.
After I have paid I feel I should receive a +feedback.

After I get the item I leave + feedback (normally)

Only once have I received an item that was NOT what the seller showed me and told me... she apologized because it was a shipping mistake she said and I got it straigthened out in a whim.

Also once I got burnt by a Russian seller and a Fed4, I left feedback when he informed me of shipping but never received anything.....

I learned the hard way to ask ask ask questions

 

[DougK]

Maybe my experience is unique, but all of my eBay transactions have gone smoothly. Not one dud seller or bad experience yet. It sounds a bit naive, but I try to approach eBay with a positive frame of mind. Basically, I assume the seller is trustworthy, wants to deal professionally and courteously, and then I cover my butt with scads of email just in case they aren't all of the above 🙂.

When all is said and done, though, I definitely prefer buying from folks I've intereacted with here on RFF.

 

[eclat]

Tom writes, "unlike a buyer who can choose a seller based on his/her feedback, a seller is stuck with whoever snipes a bid at the last second. Sellers don't get to screen for good buyers. Only buyers do. I personally prefer not to deal with buyers who have high negative feedback (who does?). Do I have a choice in the matter though? No ... Ebay forces me to accept whichever buyer is the last and highest bidder, regardless of how lousy his/her feedback might be. What happens if a buyer who has only a 35% positive feedback wins one of my auctions? And he has a record of being a total jerk with all his previous sellers? I'm forced to accept that situation, because I have no choice. That, may I respectfully suggest, is why the buyer ought to bear the greater risk."

This is not so. Sellers can set parameters for their buyers, as I have. I accept no buyers with zero feedback or with 2 negative strikes in the last month. You can be as restrictive as you want, in fact.

Secondly, there are a lot of buyers out there who misrepresent their items, or engage in hyperbole when they sell, and the buyer has absolutely no protection in that case, particularly if the seller does not offer a return policy, like the vast majority of sellers on eBay who don't. By holding back on feedback, the seller is removing the last possible means for the buyer to have some leverage in the transaction.

And though I agree with the point that buying is more than simply making a timely payment, it's not a whole lot more, and it does beg the question: if the seller says the items "works great" and knows it, then he has little to worry about when sending it. In fact, I make a point of standing behind my items I sell and ALWAYS allow for returns in cases where I am representing that a product is in good condition. The only caveat I make is that returns can only happen if item was purchased with insurance (and is not working, of course). That way, if I sell to some psychotic prison escapee who simply wants to dash my camera to the floor and then send it back for his money, I can file a claim with the post office that the item was damaged en route. Either way, I'm protected. And because I accept returns, the buyer has no incentive to leave negative f eedback. Quite to the contrary. By being able to return the item, the buyer is inclined to leave POSTIVE feedback. I also don't refund shipping costs, which usually prevents a dishonest buyer from wanting to take advantage of the seller since they'd be out both the item *and* shipping costs.

Bottom line: I stand behind what I sell, and as soon as I recieve payment, I post positive feedback. In the end, even if the product isn't up to their standards for some reason, they can always return it and I'll *still* get good feedback from them. Sellers who hold out until they get positive feedback from the guyer are, IMHO, holding buyers hostage. And I know of what I speak: over 100 transactions on eBay, and a 100% rating.

 

[eclat]

as both buyer and seller...