squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Some of you might remember, a few months back I wrote up a little review of the Sigma DP1 here on the forum. I really liked it, in spite of all its much-publicized flaws. There is nothing quite like those Foveon files--the 100% crops are impossibly sharp and lifelike--it almost seems like magic.
However, nice crops are not all that important to me, and as the months went by I really started longing to use my M lenses on a digicam. So I unloaded the DP1 and bought an R-D1. I don't regret it--it's a wonderful camera, and as nice as I thought the DP1 was, it's not 800 dollars nice. Anyway, what with me giving my Fuji F30 to my son, this left me without a compact P&S, so I picked up the LX-3.
I mention the DP1 at all because that's what this camera seems to be trying to trump. In most ways, it succeeds wildly. It's a little smaller, but very sharp looking. The lens is excellent (with a caveat which I'll get to). It powers on fast, writes files fast (including RAW), and has the most beautiful screen that has probably ever been on a compact camera. Really just amazing. The menu system is simple, the mode dial turns with a satisfying click, and the build quality is great. The pop-out flash, while small, feels really solid, and unlike on the Sigma, the lens cap pops on easily and stays there. It feels pretty decent to use, though I am tempted to actually buy, for the first time in my life, a leather half-case, the one that Panasonic makes for it. The camera's ergonomics are aiming for rangefinder quality but the thing is just too small.
Other advantages--there is NO shutter lag. I mean NONE. This is really quite amazing. There is a highly effective manual focus mode--a magnified box appears on the screen and you use the joystick to focus--and when you hit the shutter button, bang, the pic is taken. The AF is actually pretty fast, too, and it's easy to scale focus while walking down the street, which is going to be one of my primary uses for it. The maximum aperture of the lens is 2.0, and it REALLY makes a difference. You will want to keep this thing at low ISO's if possible and the fast lens makes it a cinch.
The lens. It is very nice, though not as nice as Sigma's amazing 28mm DP1 prime. The in-camera JPEG engine renders lovely photos, though I would like to be able to turn the NR all the way off (it goes to -2, but it's still on). The low-ISO JPEGs are very, very good; 400 and 800 are quite nice too, for a compact, with a bit of touching up. Above there, I'd stick to black and white, and in fact I will.
Here's the one bothersome thing though. I want to use RAW. But the supplied SilkyPix SE doesn't get you anything much better than the JPEGs. I don't understand why this should be--in some cases the JPEGs are actually superior to anything I could get out of SilkyPix. So I went online and downloaded dcraw and RawDrop. This gives you ABSOLUTELY UNPROCESSED TIFFs, albeit extremely flat ones. I actually put together a quickie web page illustrating this:
http://inverseroom.creotia.com/lx3
OK, so, the colors and white balance and contrast and gamma and what have you are way off on my hastily processed TIFF. But check out the detail in that (yes, heavily shapened) crop. There really is a ton of it, and you can't get at it in SilkyPix. I have no idea why.
This experiment caused me to realize, as well, that the lens suffers from tremendous barrel distortion--you need to go to +15 in Photoshop to fix it. The JPEG engine does this automatically, and so, interestingly, does SilkyPix. What I'm waiting for, of course, is for Adobe to add the camera to ACR, and I'm hoping the profile will include a lens correction but will NOT obliterate the nice RAW detail. Time will tell.
Meanwhile, this is a really good camera. If you like the Ricohs, you will like this too. If you liked how well the Fujis do in low light, you'll like this too. It looks awesome, feels good, and is generally a big winner. I suspect you can get some nice 8x10 prints out of it, esp. at low ISOs and in B&W. Oh yeah there are a bunch of fun film modes on it, too, though I usually prefer to keep things neutral and mess with 'em later in Lightroom.
Remember, though, IQ remains stridently small-sensor. It's a very good small sensor which the DP1 nevertheless murders in IQ. But at half the price and four times the usability, you might well prefer this camera. And when you want to make giant prints, use your M8, DSLR, or film.
Cheers
John
However, nice crops are not all that important to me, and as the months went by I really started longing to use my M lenses on a digicam. So I unloaded the DP1 and bought an R-D1. I don't regret it--it's a wonderful camera, and as nice as I thought the DP1 was, it's not 800 dollars nice. Anyway, what with me giving my Fuji F30 to my son, this left me without a compact P&S, so I picked up the LX-3.
I mention the DP1 at all because that's what this camera seems to be trying to trump. In most ways, it succeeds wildly. It's a little smaller, but very sharp looking. The lens is excellent (with a caveat which I'll get to). It powers on fast, writes files fast (including RAW), and has the most beautiful screen that has probably ever been on a compact camera. Really just amazing. The menu system is simple, the mode dial turns with a satisfying click, and the build quality is great. The pop-out flash, while small, feels really solid, and unlike on the Sigma, the lens cap pops on easily and stays there. It feels pretty decent to use, though I am tempted to actually buy, for the first time in my life, a leather half-case, the one that Panasonic makes for it. The camera's ergonomics are aiming for rangefinder quality but the thing is just too small.
Other advantages--there is NO shutter lag. I mean NONE. This is really quite amazing. There is a highly effective manual focus mode--a magnified box appears on the screen and you use the joystick to focus--and when you hit the shutter button, bang, the pic is taken. The AF is actually pretty fast, too, and it's easy to scale focus while walking down the street, which is going to be one of my primary uses for it. The maximum aperture of the lens is 2.0, and it REALLY makes a difference. You will want to keep this thing at low ISO's if possible and the fast lens makes it a cinch.
The lens. It is very nice, though not as nice as Sigma's amazing 28mm DP1 prime. The in-camera JPEG engine renders lovely photos, though I would like to be able to turn the NR all the way off (it goes to -2, but it's still on). The low-ISO JPEGs are very, very good; 400 and 800 are quite nice too, for a compact, with a bit of touching up. Above there, I'd stick to black and white, and in fact I will.
Here's the one bothersome thing though. I want to use RAW. But the supplied SilkyPix SE doesn't get you anything much better than the JPEGs. I don't understand why this should be--in some cases the JPEGs are actually superior to anything I could get out of SilkyPix. So I went online and downloaded dcraw and RawDrop. This gives you ABSOLUTELY UNPROCESSED TIFFs, albeit extremely flat ones. I actually put together a quickie web page illustrating this:
http://inverseroom.creotia.com/lx3
OK, so, the colors and white balance and contrast and gamma and what have you are way off on my hastily processed TIFF. But check out the detail in that (yes, heavily shapened) crop. There really is a ton of it, and you can't get at it in SilkyPix. I have no idea why.
This experiment caused me to realize, as well, that the lens suffers from tremendous barrel distortion--you need to go to +15 in Photoshop to fix it. The JPEG engine does this automatically, and so, interestingly, does SilkyPix. What I'm waiting for, of course, is for Adobe to add the camera to ACR, and I'm hoping the profile will include a lens correction but will NOT obliterate the nice RAW detail. Time will tell.
Meanwhile, this is a really good camera. If you like the Ricohs, you will like this too. If you liked how well the Fujis do in low light, you'll like this too. It looks awesome, feels good, and is generally a big winner. I suspect you can get some nice 8x10 prints out of it, esp. at low ISOs and in B&W. Oh yeah there are a bunch of fun film modes on it, too, though I usually prefer to keep things neutral and mess with 'em later in Lightroom.
Remember, though, IQ remains stridently small-sensor. It's a very good small sensor which the DP1 nevertheless murders in IQ. But at half the price and four times the usability, you might well prefer this camera. And when you want to make giant prints, use your M8, DSLR, or film.
Cheers
John
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Erik L
Well-known
so you are saying the DP1 is the next best thing?
kshapero
South Florida Man
Ricoh GX200 on auto ISO (64-154) rocks.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Er...no...it's a different thing. If you don't have another large-sensor digital camera, and you want one, the DP1 is the only way to get it in a very tiny package. (For now.) For me, I've got a DSLR and the R-D1 now, and all I was using the DP1 for was low-ISO street photography. And for that, the LX3 is a very nice, but much more affordable, alternative.
Oh BTW if you prefer the DP1's price, but don't need its better sensor, you can pay Leica that much for its insanely expensive version of the LX3. ;-)
Akiva, the LX3 is right up there with the GX in out-of-camera JPEGs...does the GX have a dedicated ISO dial? I wish the LX3 did. I think the new Canon compact does...
kshapero
South Florida Man
GX200 does not have a dedicated ISO dial. What is a out-of-camera JPEG? I have never heard that term before? I also own the Pany LX-2 and I find the controls on the GX200 much more user friendly for manual and aperture preferred.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
As in, having the camera set to output JPEGs, rather than RAW. As opposed to JPEGs you get by converting the RAW files yourself. Most cameras, you can get nicer pictures the latter way, but it takes a little work.
ampguy
Veteran
Nice review John. I'm guessing that most of the distortion is at full wide, what about if you creep the zoom out towards 28/35 (35mm equivalent focal length), does it flatten out well?
As you probably know, the F30 (and virtually all small sensor zooms) has barrel distortion at the full wide end of the zoom.
As you probably know, the F30 (and virtually all small sensor zooms) has barrel distortion at the full wide end of the zoom.
Arvay
Obscurant
I wonder how it performs on high ISO.
Is it possible to show some pics (processed/un-)?
Is it possible to show some pics (processed/un-)?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
BW shows a pretty nice "grain" at 1600 and up, but color noise is awful for color pics. Color is swell up to 400. It's been raining here for days so I haven't gotten to get out and about, but will try to get some pics up soon.
And yeah, Ted, I hadn't thought to check the wider focal lengths, but I am sure it will straighten out some...in any event, if you're shooting JPEG, as I will be for now, it doesn't much matter.
And yeah, Ted, I hadn't thought to check the wider focal lengths, but I am sure it will straighten out some...in any event, if you're shooting JPEG, as I will be for now, it doesn't much matter.
allen_a_george
Established
I would like to try the LX3 out - am waiting until it makes it to the local chains - but I'm really wary of the single back joystick. I would strongly prefer a dual-dial setup like those on DSLRs, or on the Ricoh GX/GRD.
That said, from what I've seen the out-of-camera color JPGs above ISO 200 are noticeably better than those from a GX-200.
That said, from what I've seen the out-of-camera color JPGs above ISO 200 are noticeably better than those from a GX-200.
sweathog
Well-known
I would still love to give the LX3 a try.
Just have to wait until a) we get one in at work or b) I can afford one...
Just have to wait until a) we get one in at work or b) I can afford one...
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
FWIW, here are a few ISO3200 pics, with a little contrast adjustment in Lightroom. In fact two of them have exposure boosted a little, so the ISO is even higher.
allen_a_george
Established
John - how does the joystick on the LX3 operate in "M" mode, with manual focus? In plain "M" mode, moving the joystick up/down changes shutter speed while moving left/right changes aperture. But when manual focus is turned on, it looks like moving the joystick changes the focal distance. Is there a way to preset the focal distance once, and then using the joystick to control f-stop/shutter speed as usual?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Allen, I misspoke earlier about the way manual focus works. In M mode, with manual focus engaged, moving the joystick from left to right selects among aperture, shutter speed, and focal distance; and moving it up and down adjusts the parameters. So yes, you can absolutely preset the focal distance, then move over and set the shutter speed, then move over and set the f-stop.
The joystick is more comfortable to use than I had anticipated--I'm not in general a joystick fan, and prefer the DP1's thumbwheel, but it works very well.
The joystick is more comfortable to use than I had anticipated--I'm not in general a joystick fan, and prefer the DP1's thumbwheel, but it works very well.
allen_a_george
Established
Thanks John.
That sounds OK, though I can foresee problems when I want to quickly change aperture/shutter speed and forget which camera control I'm currently on. In the "M mode + AF" setup this wouldn't happen, since one direction always controls shutter speed, and the other always aperture. It would have been great if I could lock the focal distance once, and have the joystick return to the "M mode + AF" configuration.
That said, I'm not going to knock the LX3 because of this; the operation still sounds well though out, and I'd like to try it in a store to see how it feels. It still think the LX3 have benefited from at least one control dial and the GX series' ability to step zoom to commonly-used focal lengths. The latter is probably why the external viewfinder only comes in 24mm . . .
That sounds OK, though I can foresee problems when I want to quickly change aperture/shutter speed and forget which camera control I'm currently on. In the "M mode + AF" setup this wouldn't happen, since one direction always controls shutter speed, and the other always aperture. It would have been great if I could lock the focal distance once, and have the joystick return to the "M mode + AF" configuration.
That said, I'm not going to knock the LX3 because of this; the operation still sounds well though out, and I'd like to try it in a store to see how it feels. It still think the LX3 have benefited from at least one control dial and the GX series' ability to step zoom to commonly-used focal lengths. The latter is probably why the external viewfinder only comes in 24mm . . .
kshapero
South Florida Man
i have a Pany LX-2 and a Ricoh GX200. I never could get comfy with the joystick thing. The Gx200 works more like I am used to.
kshapero
South Florida Man
The ERF on the GX200 works throughout the step zoom from 24mm - 70mm.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
Is it possible to set the focal length to a desired value?
In other words, can I set it to 35mm equivalent, or do I just have to zoom till I'm happy?
I'm wondering because I'd like to put an external finder on it and then forget the controls.
In other words, can I set it to 35mm equivalent, or do I just have to zoom till I'm happy?
I'm wondering because I'd like to put an external finder on it and then forget the controls.
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achi4
Member
John,
I alrady had Silkypix and picked it up again for the LX3 Raw files but was not very pleased with the results.
I just downloaded and tried Raw Developer and the results I get are much better.
Maurice
I alrady had Silkypix and picked it up again for the LX3 Raw files but was not very pleased with the results.
I just downloaded and tried Raw Developer and the results I get are much better.
Maurice
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Yeah, I think you would be disappointed in this as a full-manual camera. For that, one would want separate analog controls, and they are just not there. For manual focusing in aperture or shutter priority, though, it works very well.
Zoom until happy. When you change focal length there's a little bar that shows how far along the scale you are, but instead of telling you the equivalent focal length, it just says 1x, then 2x, then 2.5x--very crude estimates at best. This would be a good thing to add in a firmware upgrade, and I hope they do.