MadMan2k
Well-known
Just make sure you don't get distracted and forget the lens cap is on, and proceed to shoot away... heh
a burning question
- Thread starter sepiareverb
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x-ray
Veteran
A friend of mine who once worked for me left my employment and got a job with a TV station. He left a $70,000 video camera in the door of his van with the lens facinf the sun and forgot to cap the lens. This was in the day of Plumicon video tubes. There were 3 tubes at a cost of $9,000 each destroyed by the sun. Ouch!!!
maitrestanley
Established
Today, I performed a quick test on how fast a lens will burn something. Instead of using the M6, I used a sheet of paper with black print on it.
With a 50/1.4 focused at infinity, burning occured within 3-4 seconds.
A 35/2 focused at infinity started burning a hole within 5-7 seconds.
Then I just started playing around and eventually had to stop because my entire room stunk of smoking paper haha
Pretty crazy.. so yeah. If you're ever stuck on a deserted island w a lens, you know what to do : P
With a 50/1.4 focused at infinity, burning occured within 3-4 seconds.
A 35/2 focused at infinity started burning a hole within 5-7 seconds.
Then I just started playing around and eventually had to stop because my entire room stunk of smoking paper haha
Pretty crazy.. so yeah. If you're ever stuck on a deserted island w a lens, you know what to do : P
nagroth
Newbie
So does that mean if i was composing an image with a lot of sunlight I would get a hole burned in?! That's horrible! 😉
laptoprob
back to basics
wide open and close focus.
wide open and close focus.
In my test, about 2 years ago I think, I had a black shutter curtain at the proper distance on the bare body of a deceased camera. Trust me, the difference between infinity and closest focus is dramatic. The projected sun disc is much smaller with the lens at close focus.
Now all this does not mean a photo with the sun in it is dangerous or impossible - ofcourse not.
Usually the aperture will not be set very large and the focus will not be at close focus. If the lens is stopped down to above f4 roughly, burning occurs only after a longer time, over 10 seconds.
Here is my original test:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909&highlight=shutter+burning+test
wide open and close focus.
maitrestanley said:
In my test, about 2 years ago I think, I had a black shutter curtain at the proper distance on the bare body of a deceased camera. Trust me, the difference between infinity and closest focus is dramatic. The projected sun disc is much smaller with the lens at close focus.
Now all this does not mean a photo with the sun in it is dangerous or impossible - ofcourse not.
Usually the aperture will not be set very large and the focus will not be at close focus. If the lens is stopped down to above f4 roughly, burning occurs only after a longer time, over 10 seconds.
Here is my original test:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909&highlight=shutter+burning+test
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
nagroth said:
Usually you either shoot sunsets 😀 where the sun's brightness is ignorable (you can look into it), OR you shoot into the Sun with small aperture and very short shutter time.
But if you people are really really that concerned, just ditch your outdated cloth shutter equipped gear and get a metal shutter, or even better, a leaf shutter camera/lens. :angel:
sepiareverb
genius and moron
MadMan2k said:
One real tangible bonus of a meter in the camera! You don't do that when your indicated shutter speed is 32 seconds in the sun.
maitrestanley
Established
laptoprob said:
I just figured that at infinity focus, the sun would be more focused since it is located at an 'infinite' distance? I was planning to test it at close focus today but it became completely overcast!!! : (
One thing I noticed is that it was near impossible to burn the white parts of the paper. I used printer paper (96 whiteness) with black text printed on it. The white parts reflected most of the sun's energy and refused to burn whereas the black printed areas burned rather easily.
In practical terms, if you're using a camera with a white spot printed on the curtain for lightmeter use (eg. Leica M6 and onward), make sure your shutter is c*cked so the white spot is exposed. It won't burn AS FAST as it would if your shutter wasn't c*cked; It will still burn eventually though, just not as readily.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Stan- I do always walk around cocked, and the white spot would of course reflect- hadn't thought of that. But today I made sure the lenscap was on the camera over the shoulder- even walked back two blocks to find it when it wasn't on the lens. There it was on the sidewalk. Thanks for the real-world experience. I'll be keeping the caps on on days like this- full sun- better safe than sorry- I'd be really sorry if I had the shutter burst into flame.
palec
Well-known
I've been inspecting the curtain today, but I wasn't able to find any hole. I have to experiment with camera now. I'll try to reproduce it by leaving lens uncovered for two hours and make blank shot, then make another blank shot and leave the lens uncovered with camera uncocked. Maybe it's not related to curtain and there are really some strange internal reflections.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
I pretty much kee a lens cap on my camera but not always. When standing about in the hot sun if the camera is over your shoulder put the lens to the your body. The camera tends to tilt down slightly. With the shade it will only bang into the soft flesh and stay shaded. If carrying it only around the neck tilt it down. Tension against the body tends to hold it that way.
laptoprob
back to basics
Welcome to the forum, Palec. Your shot shows quite an even blue streak at the top of a frame. Probably a lot of frames. Probably most when the back of the camera has been exposed to light. No (bottom) case I guess?
I think I recognize your light leak. It might well be the back door. Streak at top of frame, starting at a few millimeters from the negative edge. That distance is like a shadow caused by the depth of the back door of the M-series cameras. I had it in my M2, only at a corner.
Check the bottom of your back door. Try to add a little felt all the way from left to right. Be careful not to put too much in to cause strain on the top hinges.
Your leak does not look like a shutter problem to me.
I think I recognize your light leak. It might well be the back door. Streak at top of frame, starting at a few millimeters from the negative edge. That distance is like a shadow caused by the depth of the back door of the M-series cameras. I had it in my M2, only at a corner.
Check the bottom of your back door. Try to add a little felt all the way from left to right. Be careful not to put too much in to cause strain on the top hinges.
Your leak does not look like a shutter problem to me.
maitrestanley
Established
Hey sepiareverb,
when walking about, I normally have the hood on. I really don't think leaving the lens cap off when the camera is hanging will present too much of a problem. If you're out around noon, the sun is pretty much overhead so there isn't much direct sun shining into the lens (less so if you have a hood on. It should be on anyways in this kinda lighting).
Even later in the afternoon when the sun is shinging at an angle, I don't see it as too much of an issue. One thing I noticed during my tests was that the lens had to be directly lined up with the sun for a quick burn to occur. Midafternoon sun (still quite intense) doesn't ever really shine directly into your camera.
The only time the sun will really be shining directly into the lens when the camera is hanging off your neck/shoulder is when it is close to the horizon at sunset. However, I speculate from personal experience that the sun is not as intense at this time and so a quick burn should not occur. I should probably add that 'should not' doesn't mean 'does not' : P I dont' want people chasing after me about misinformed advice and a hole in their curtain
When conditions allow, I'll perform the burn test at noon, 3-4pm, and 6-7pm to test the differences in intensity.
One thing to consider when you're out and shooting is that you're constantly moving about. Chances are that your camera will not have the sun shining DIRECTLY into it for more than a few fractions of a second. The most dangerous thing is leaving your camera flat on its back, aperture wide open, and shutter unc*cked on a sunny day at noon. It isn't unlikely.
When walking about, stick on a hood on your lens. It cuts down any flare, semi-protects your lens elements, and adds an extra level of protection against burned curtains.
palec, I really hope you run that test on a cheapo camera O_O
when walking about, I normally have the hood on. I really don't think leaving the lens cap off when the camera is hanging will present too much of a problem. If you're out around noon, the sun is pretty much overhead so there isn't much direct sun shining into the lens (less so if you have a hood on. It should be on anyways in this kinda lighting).
Even later in the afternoon when the sun is shinging at an angle, I don't see it as too much of an issue. One thing I noticed during my tests was that the lens had to be directly lined up with the sun for a quick burn to occur. Midafternoon sun (still quite intense) doesn't ever really shine directly into your camera.
The only time the sun will really be shining directly into the lens when the camera is hanging off your neck/shoulder is when it is close to the horizon at sunset. However, I speculate from personal experience that the sun is not as intense at this time and so a quick burn should not occur. I should probably add that 'should not' doesn't mean 'does not' : P I dont' want people chasing after me about misinformed advice and a hole in their curtain
When conditions allow, I'll perform the burn test at noon, 3-4pm, and 6-7pm to test the differences in intensity.
One thing to consider when you're out and shooting is that you're constantly moving about. Chances are that your camera will not have the sun shining DIRECTLY into it for more than a few fractions of a second. The most dangerous thing is leaving your camera flat on its back, aperture wide open, and shutter unc*cked on a sunny day at noon. It isn't unlikely.
When walking about, stick on a hood on your lens. It cuts down any flare, semi-protects your lens elements, and adds an extra level of protection against burned curtains.
palec, I really hope you run that test on a cheapo camera O_O
maitrestanley
Established
Oh yeah, I'm thinking of drilling a little hole in my lens cap so I can attach a string to it. I'll probably also make some sort of small pouch and attach that to the camera strap so I'll have someplace to store the lenscap so it isn't flailing about.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Maitrestanley-
I do keep my lenshoods on- and was under the impression that in just walking around I wouldn't need to worry so much- The direction of light certainly would be the contributing factor- noon does seem pretty safe for a shoulder hung camera. I originally posted to see if it had ever happened as I was surprised by the warning in the manual- and am glad to hear that it appears to have only happened in situations that I normally wouldn't be in. I do recall setting cameras down on tables in the sun, and this seems to be a potentially risky thing to do. I am warned.
Many thanks to all who've helped out!
I do keep my lenshoods on- and was under the impression that in just walking around I wouldn't need to worry so much- The direction of light certainly would be the contributing factor- noon does seem pretty safe for a shoulder hung camera. I originally posted to see if it had ever happened as I was surprised by the warning in the manual- and am glad to hear that it appears to have only happened in situations that I normally wouldn't be in. I do recall setting cameras down on tables in the sun, and this seems to be a potentially risky thing to do. I am warned.
Many thanks to all who've helped out!
