Godfrey
somewhat colored
Thank you!
I see the problem of square sensors as simply being economics ... The demand is low and it's expensive to jigger fabs to make square sensors.
So with a 2:3 sensor, I just use 2/3 of the sensor area, and with a 3:4 sensor I use 3/4 of the sensor, to get my square. With the Leica CL or SL, this translates roughly to 16 Mpixel—with the Hasselblad X1D it would translate to 39 Mpixel—(the same as when I use a negative copy method of scanning 6x6 film, if I fit the whole negative as tightly as possible to the frame). Experience has shown me that even 16 Mpixel has enough data for me to make prints much larger than I normally do at the quality level I want, so I'm good with that.
Someday I'll buy one of those Hasselblad options (either the X1D or the new CFV50CII back, and 907x body) and get the XCD 21mm lens, I suspect. Have to say that, as cameras go, my Hasselblads have always worked well for me and I have a fairly complete 500CM outfit already. The back, body, and that lens would bring it all to a new life as a digital system.
I could see trading off my M-D and most of my excess Leica gear to fund that. Not all of it, the CL is much more handy for mobility and travel purposes, and works better as a copy camera for small objects and negatives. No one camera (or camera system) does everything best..
G
raid
Dad Photographer
Yes, but do your images display "The SWC Magic" ? 
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
When I compare the coverage of two formats, I go by the horizontal coverage. So for example from 6 x 6 SWC to 35mm cropped square, we need to use the short (24mm) dimension: (24/54)38mm = 16.9mm. So we would need a 17mm lens; or an 18mm or 16mm, if 17mm is not available.
I use 54mm for my Hasselblad, as that is the width of my Hasselblad negatives as measured with my mm scale. I believe the use of 56mm may be based on the width of Rolleiflex images, which if memory serves are 56mm.
I use 54mm for my Hasselblad, as that is the width of my Hasselblad negatives as measured with my mm scale. I believe the use of 56mm may be based on the width of Rolleiflex images, which if memory serves are 56mm.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
(bolded) I presume you meant to write "vertical" rather than "horizontal". Your results are correct for that. A 17mm would emulate the SWC FoV exactly, but there are no M-mount 17mm prime lenses I've found (of course the WATE is a true zoom so you could set the focal length setting to between 16 and 18 and get a 17mm focal length...).
I prefer to get a little more coverage for digital because it has no rebate. If I want to add a little border effect to do what the rebate with film does, I can do so on a digital frame without losing the SWC FoV in the image domain; with an SWC I usually left the rebate in the image. So on FF I've used 15mm and now on APS-C I'm using 10mm, and both net about 77° square format when cropped (about 4° more than the SWC, almost invisible). A little more coverage also gives me the ability to square up the horizon when I'm working hand-held.
BTW: Considering 6x6 format film, 54 vs 56 mm is an insignificant difference in my opinion, but whatever. I've not measured it explicitly, and of course the actual negative coverage on film changes depending on what focal length lens you use since the angle of incidence at the edges/corners of the frame make wide lenses cover a bit more and tele lenses cover a bit less, since the film gate is a couple of mm in front of the recording medium. That difference can vary by more than 2mm depending on the lens involved: Biogon 38mm frames are larger than Distagon 50mm frames on my Hasselblads. (This is one of the reason that frame spacing on film changes a bit depending on the lenses used ...
) I use the Angle of View calculator I mentioned up-thread. It's proven to be very accurate ... and accurate is significantly more than "close enough" for this kind of stuff to my eyes.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Yes, but do your images display "The SWC Magic" ?
Hi Raid,
I'm not exactly what you're saying "yes" to, but thus far I'm very pleased that my photos with the Leica CL and the Voigtländer 10mm display the "SWC Magic" to my satisfaction, as did my photos with the SL fitted with the Super-Elmar-R 15mm lens. The CL+10 lens configuration is a third smaller and less than half the weight of the SL+15 lens configuration, which is also extremely pleasing.
I bought the WATE for this use with the M-P 240 and SL, but it never pleased me as much as the Super-Elmar-R 15 did, or this Voigtländer 10 does on the smaller format.
The only big difference with either, compared to the real SWC, is that from a DOF perspective, the lens is never open more than f/11 to f/16 since these small format cameras have such short focal lengths to achieve the coverage. It's not a big deal to me because with the SWC itself, I mostly always had the lens at f/11 to f/16 anyway; it's just that there really aren't any options with the small format cameras and an 15/3.5 or a 10/5.6 lens. I've found that I usually set the Voigtländer at f/8 and just leave it there, and with the Super-Elmar-R 15 I used to set it at f/5.6 and leave it there.
Fun stuff indeed.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
It was a joke, Godfrey. Often, Leica fans mention The Leica Glow. I made up The SWC Magic.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Catching up on a little of my backlog of photos to render ...
All of these with the Leica CL and Voigtländer Hyper-Wide 10mm. Some more heavily processed than my usual.
---
From last Sunday's cycle ride around and in San Jose, it was Father's Day and the restaurant next door to the cafe I stopped at was hosting a private family party. A few minutes after I sat down with my snack/lunch, the party broke and a huge wave of folks spilled onto the sidewalk...
One of the musicians from the party pulled his rental scooter over and sat down to rest a moment. I guess he was tuckered out by the party.
I was having a grand day's ride and pushing ... realized I hadn't eaten since an early breakfast and needed some calories ... so a quick cafe snack for lunch.
Next stop on my ride was Japan Town. I wanted to make a photograph of the memorial there to see how the ultrawide lens would work, but I couldn't help a little beauty shot of my bicycle parked on the corner.
This is really what I stopped for. I've often tried to get a good photograph of the memorial but it's difficult because the ideal place to stand is right in the middle of a busy intersection. The ultrawide lens allowed me to be closer and still capture the whole thing, albeit not with my usual square crop but with the full format, then cropped to a long 16:9 proportion. I decided a diptych was the right way to present it, showing the small but critical element: the date of Executive Order 9066, which gave the U.S. Army the authority to remove civilians from the military zones established in Washington, Oregon, and California during WWII.
Borrowing from https://jacl.org/events/day-of-remembrance/
This has some personal significance to me: One of my good friends from college days spent some twenty-plus years of her life working with the effort to obtain some compensation and restitution for the losses of her mother and father, and the whole Japanese-American community by extension, which were only finalized a little over a decade ago, half a century later.
Whenever I ride through Japan Town and see the memorial standing there in its mute testimony, I think of her and of what it stands for.
onwards! G
All of these with the Leica CL and Voigtländer Hyper-Wide 10mm. Some more heavily processed than my usual.
---
From last Sunday's cycle ride around and in San Jose, it was Father's Day and the restaurant next door to the cafe I stopped at was hosting a private family party. A few minutes after I sat down with my snack/lunch, the party broke and a huge wave of folks spilled onto the sidewalk...
One of the musicians from the party pulled his rental scooter over and sat down to rest a moment. I guess he was tuckered out by the party.
I was having a grand day's ride and pushing ... realized I hadn't eaten since an early breakfast and needed some calories ... so a quick cafe snack for lunch.
Next stop on my ride was Japan Town. I wanted to make a photograph of the memorial there to see how the ultrawide lens would work, but I couldn't help a little beauty shot of my bicycle parked on the corner.
This is really what I stopped for. I've often tried to get a good photograph of the memorial but it's difficult because the ideal place to stand is right in the middle of a busy intersection. The ultrawide lens allowed me to be closer and still capture the whole thing, albeit not with my usual square crop but with the full format, then cropped to a long 16:9 proportion. I decided a diptych was the right way to present it, showing the small but critical element: the date of Executive Order 9066, which gave the U.S. Army the authority to remove civilians from the military zones established in Washington, Oregon, and California during WWII.
Borrowing from https://jacl.org/events/day-of-remembrance/
This has some personal significance to me: One of my good friends from college days spent some twenty-plus years of her life working with the effort to obtain some compensation and restitution for the losses of her mother and father, and the whole Japanese-American community by extension, which were only finalized a little over a decade ago, half a century later.
Whenever I ride through Japan Town and see the memorial standing there in its mute testimony, I think of her and of what it stands for.
onwards! G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I really love square photos, and square photos made with the field of view of an ultra wide lens just hit the numbers for me. That's not to say that it is easy ... It always takes a bit of time for my to calibrate my mind to seeing with such a wide field of view.
I carried the camera on yesterday's cycle ride to lunch at Roy's Station Cafe in Japan Town and became inspired when I got there to play with some hand-held still life photos...
All taken with Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6.
Enjoy!
G
I carried the camera on yesterday's cycle ride to lunch at Roy's Station Cafe in Japan Town and became inspired when I got there to play with some hand-held still life photos...
All taken with Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6.
Enjoy!
G
farlymac
PF McFarland
Some wonderful images there, Godfrey. I always wondered how the new CL would handle the 10mm. Makes me wish I had one right now.
PF
PF
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Thank you! I'm loving this lens...
Here are five more photos... These were taken while I was riding on two different bicycle rides last week. Focusing on trees along the paths.
All: Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6, f/8 aperture setting
What's truly great about this setup is how small and light it is. It fits with tons of room to spare in the Wotancraft Mini Rider and is extremely handy for carrying with me on my bicycle rides. The camera and lens together with the half case weighs 1 lb, 4 ounces.
Another thing I'm pretty delighted with is that all of the photos I've shown so far were made hand-held, and they're very sharp with lovely texture and tonal scale. I know that once I go out for a session and use a tripod too they'll be even better quality!
enjoy!
G
Here are five more photos... These were taken while I was riding on two different bicycle rides last week. Focusing on trees along the paths.
All: Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6, f/8 aperture setting
What's truly great about this setup is how small and light it is. It fits with tons of room to spare in the Wotancraft Mini Rider and is extremely handy for carrying with me on my bicycle rides. The camera and lens together with the half case weighs 1 lb, 4 ounces.
Another thing I'm pretty delighted with is that all of the photos I've shown so far were made hand-held, and they're very sharp with lovely texture and tonal scale. I know that once I go out for a session and use a tripod too they'll be even better quality!
enjoy!
G
shawn
Veteran
Great shots. I gave this a try today. Definitely need to work on recalibrating my brain (haven't shot a lot of 1:1) but I did enjoy the wide FOV and square format. A7RII and either the Voigtlander 15mm or Kobalux 21mm.
Shawn
Godfrey
somewhat colored
A good start, Shawn! The more the merrier! Ultrawide squares are just too much fun not to work on...
This is one of the four exposures I made on today's cycle ride...
Always Another Cafe Stop on the Ride
Caffe Frascati, San Jose 2019
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 400 @ f/8 @ 1/60
enjoy!
G
This is one of the four exposures I made on today's cycle ride...
Always Another Cafe Stop on the Ride
Caffe Frascati, San Jose 2019
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 400 @ f/8 @ 1/60
enjoy!
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
My single photo made in Guadalupe River Park on yesterday's cycle ride:
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
enjoy, G
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
enjoy, G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
My bicycle ride today brought me right up past this little thing:
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/160
It's a monstrosity, but eh? It's only obnoxious when they close the trail during events.
enjoy!
G
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 100 @ f/8 @ 1/160
It's a monstrosity, but eh? It's only obnoxious when they close the trail during events.
enjoy!
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
From one of my downtown cafe stops last week...
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15
enjoy!
G
Leica CL + Voigtländer 10mm f/5.6
ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15
enjoy!
G
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
No, I meant horizontal, because when comparing formats, in general, I use the horizontal dimension (some folks would rather compare the diagonal of two disparate formats Not I). I think my remarks about that must have been misleading, since they don't really directly apply to this issue. In this case, we have to use the smaller dimension to make a square out of the 24 x 36mm format, so in this case 24mm refers to the height (assuming the 35mm camera is being held horizontally), i see why you are saying this. Of course, if the 35mm camera is being held vertically, then the 24mm figure would refer to the horizontal. It's all relative.
By the way, the difference between 576 square millimeters versus 2,916 square millimeters of negative area could be a limiting factor, depending on the size of enlargement that is wanted.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
In film, sure: of course it is. But the whole premise of my thread is a "compact digital SWC" ... and in digital it's the pixel count per unit area of output product that's what's important rather than the magnification of the original to output product.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Another fabulous structure is the parking garage at San Jose International Airport. The Guadalupe River Trail runs right next to it: I stopped to take this shot on Sunday while out on my bicycle ride.
Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
ISO 200 @ f/8 @ 1/200
Enjoy!
G
Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
ISO 200 @ f/8 @ 1/200
Enjoy!
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
A good friend from my work days had lunch with me yesterday. He's another photo head ... I had the CL+V10 with me and he snapped this shot of me.
"... and never mind my big hands, and nose."
Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15
This photo points out that when shooting people with an ultra-ultra-wide lens, you really have to be careful about the planes of elements and the subject to camera distance or foreshortening will bite you...!
G
"... and never mind my big hands, and nose."
Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6
ISO 160 @ f/8 @ 1/15
This photo points out that when shooting people with an ultra-ultra-wide lens, you really have to be careful about the planes of elements and the subject to camera distance or foreshortening will bite you...!
G