squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
OK, let's just say I'm in the market for an M8/M8.2. I'm not at the moment, but I might be, later this year.
I keep thinking that perhaps I prefer the M8 to the M8.2, primarily for the 1/8000 shutter speed, which would allow me to shoot wide open with very fast lenses in broad daylight--a nice option. How does this work out in practice?
I don't think I'm too concerned with the framlines issue, as I usually assume that framelines on my cameras are conservative. Am I correct that, at middle distances (ie., 2 meters and out), the M8's framelines are smaller than the actual field of view?
What's the hubbub on upgrades? Is there any chance that the M8 will get a firmware update that features the same manually-selectable lens list as the M9, thus obviating the need to have my lenses coded?
And what of the coding? My widest current RF lens is a 28. Will it need coding? Will my other lenses? (They are currently a 28/2.8, a 35/1.8, a 50/1.1, a 50/1.8, a 53/1.8, and a 90/4.) Does the vignetting correction apply only to JPEG, or does the camera apply it to RAW as well?
Finally, the IR-cut filters. Presumably I'd pick up a few, but is this only a color issue, or does it affect B&W shooting in some way as well? Does the lack of integral IR filtering mean that I can shoot infrared photos with an M8, using the proper filter? How simple is this, in practice?
Aside from the framelines and shutter noise, are there other disadvantages to choosing an M8 over an M8.2?
Thanks a lot.
I keep thinking that perhaps I prefer the M8 to the M8.2, primarily for the 1/8000 shutter speed, which would allow me to shoot wide open with very fast lenses in broad daylight--a nice option. How does this work out in practice?
I don't think I'm too concerned with the framlines issue, as I usually assume that framelines on my cameras are conservative. Am I correct that, at middle distances (ie., 2 meters and out), the M8's framelines are smaller than the actual field of view?
What's the hubbub on upgrades? Is there any chance that the M8 will get a firmware update that features the same manually-selectable lens list as the M9, thus obviating the need to have my lenses coded?
And what of the coding? My widest current RF lens is a 28. Will it need coding? Will my other lenses? (They are currently a 28/2.8, a 35/1.8, a 50/1.1, a 50/1.8, a 53/1.8, and a 90/4.) Does the vignetting correction apply only to JPEG, or does the camera apply it to RAW as well?
Finally, the IR-cut filters. Presumably I'd pick up a few, but is this only a color issue, or does it affect B&W shooting in some way as well? Does the lack of integral IR filtering mean that I can shoot infrared photos with an M8, using the proper filter? How simple is this, in practice?
Aside from the framelines and shutter noise, are there other disadvantages to choosing an M8 over an M8.2?
Thanks a lot.
elshaneo
Panographer
I'm also in the same situation as you, I might get a second hand Leica M8 later, the main difference to me at the moment between the M8 and the M8.2 is the second hand price difference 
gdi
Veteran
I have an M8 and have seen no reason to have it upgraded - or especially to buy a new M8.2. I guess it is quieter and has a better skin and LCD cover - important to others I suppose.
I had one problem with the M8 - a discoloration of the LCD. I sent it back during the last week of warranty and had it back, fixed, in 2 weeks. They also put a new sensor in it - though I don't know why, it had a couple of dead pixels but nothing more.
I use the 1/8000 SS pretty often with fast lenses, and I don't need the snapshot mode
I had one problem with the M8 - a discoloration of the LCD. I sent it back during the last week of warranty and had it back, fixed, in 2 weeks. They also put a new sensor in it - though I don't know why, it had a couple of dead pixels but nothing more.
I use the 1/8000 SS pretty often with fast lenses, and I don't need the snapshot mode
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f16sunshine
Moderator
The 1/8000 is of more benifit than the quiter shutter for me.
The shutter noise is nothing compared to the noise from the shutter re-charge which is the same for both models.
Considering the iq being equal, why not take the extra stop.
Most M8 versions that are going to fail have already.
Leica has done a good job of backing this camera. That statement comes from personal experience. They sure did take swift and proper care when I had an issue. Kudos for that.
The shutter noise is nothing compared to the noise from the shutter re-charge which is the same for both models.
Considering the iq being equal, why not take the extra stop.
Most M8 versions that are going to fail have already.
Leica has done a good job of backing this camera. That statement comes from personal experience. They sure did take swift and proper care when I had an issue. Kudos for that.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I often do portaits of people with whom I'm having a conversation, so the framelines on the M8 work out pretty well for me.
It would be really cool to see another firmware upgrade on the M8.
You will probably want IR filters for all your lenses (or those that will be your mainstays on the M8), but most of them won't require coding gven the FLs you work with.
I think you will like the M8!
It would be really cool to see another firmware upgrade on the M8.
You will probably want IR filters for all your lenses (or those that will be your mainstays on the M8), but most of them won't require coding gven the FLs you work with.
I think you will like the M8!
leicashot
Well-known
I'd buy the M8.2, it is noticeably quieter, framelines are much better, sapphire glass is sweet and the only time I want to shoot wide open in daylight is when the sun is setting or rising, when light is the softest and 1/4000 sec is more than enough...and while it sounds like a lot, it's only 1 stop difference with many more benefits. Plus the M9 is 1/4000sec should you ever upgrade....this coming from an M8 owner, not m8.2.
M8 owners will tell you to buy an M8 and that the shutter is barely quieter when it really is.
M8 owners will tell you to buy an M8 and that the shutter is barely quieter when it really is.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Good info, thanks, everyone. Did any of you "upgrade" to the M8 from the R-D1? I assume the shutter sound is quieter than the R-D1's, in which case it'll sound better to me either way.
Ultimately, I love using my film M's more than any other cameras I've owned, and though I adore the R-D1, I can't help but wonder if the M8/8.2 might give me some of the Leica feel I love so much. One concern is that perhaps much of what I like about Leicas is the feel of their mechanical action, which of course is missing on the M8. But I think it's worth a try, now that they're more affordable.
Ultimately, I love using my film M's more than any other cameras I've owned, and though I adore the R-D1, I can't help but wonder if the M8/8.2 might give me some of the Leica feel I love so much. One concern is that perhaps much of what I like about Leicas is the feel of their mechanical action, which of course is missing on the M8. But I think it's worth a try, now that they're more affordable.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
I agree with Noimmunity's comment on the framelines - for my use.
I prefer the 1/8000 shutter, but YMMV. The M8 and M8.2 camera bodies (which is only a couple) do not sound different at equivalent shutter speeds.
I would strongly consider buying a refurb which (1) will have had a hopefully thorough inspection and (2) will have a Leica warranty. You may (or may not) currently be able to save some money buying used, but if the camera needs work, you will have lost an expensive bet. However, since you're talking about later this year, it's hard to predict the future...
I had an RD-1. The M8 feels like a Leica; the Epson didn't. Also, my Epson needed continual RF calibration. So far the M8 is fine, and I expect it to stay that way.
Make sure you upgrade the firmware on any M8 you buy. The improvements are significant.
I prefer the 1/8000 shutter, but YMMV. The M8 and M8.2 camera bodies (which is only a couple) do not sound different at equivalent shutter speeds.
I would strongly consider buying a refurb which (1) will have had a hopefully thorough inspection and (2) will have a Leica warranty. You may (or may not) currently be able to save some money buying used, but if the camera needs work, you will have lost an expensive bet. However, since you're talking about later this year, it's hard to predict the future...
I had an RD-1. The M8 feels like a Leica; the Epson didn't. Also, my Epson needed continual RF calibration. So far the M8 is fine, and I expect it to stay that way.
Make sure you upgrade the firmware on any M8 you buy. The improvements are significant.
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noimmunity
scratch my niche
I'm one of those who upgraded.
I'd say the R-D1 is quieter, actually. But they are just different kinds of sounds. Like the difference between an electric stapler (M8) and a punch hole press (R-D1).
Ergonomically, the R-D1 obviously wins in most respects (although I prefer the M8 body, the R-D1 has the hard ISO wheel, 1:1 finder, and film advance). But the M8 is satisfying enough for its VF and RF.
Bottom line is that I think the IQ on the M8 is generally much better, especially for color at lower ISOs, than on the R-D1. You should try to borrow one before you take the plunge. Somebody in Ithaca has gotta have one!
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
This is the M8 with a B&W infrared filter on it:
Somehow the result when converted to B&W wasn't that funky, so I kept it like this. There's more at my Flickr account, username buzzardkid. The set is called Pretty Red.
Somehow the result when converted to B&W wasn't that funky, so I kept it like this. There's more at my Flickr account, username buzzardkid. The set is called Pretty Red.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Yeah, ultimately the IQ--and the slightly better crop factor--are two of the main things. And the lower profile body. I think there was an Ithacan RFF'er here a year ago or so who had one, but I can't remember his name and haven't seen him around (at least I don't think I have).
As for used vs. refurb, I have to see if this project I'm working on comes through--if it does I'll be able to afford the latter. Should know pretty soon. I definitely prefer to do the refurb route, perhaps buying from Tony.
gdi
Veteran
I really liked the images from the R-D1 and the shutter was quieter - but a tinny clink. But I continually waited for something to go wrong. The RF really stinks compared to the M8 and my shutter failed less than a year after buying it (refurb from Epson).
That said - if people are right about the bottom falling out of the M8 market due to the M9 (they may not be - considering the existing $3000 difference in new price!), I may pick up another Epson really cheap.
semordnilap
Well-known
Regarding IR–it's very simple. Just swap the UV/IR filter (you'll want them for all of your lenses!) for a b+w 093 (all visible blocking) or 092 (some blocking). Some lenses have hotspots... there's a partial list in this thread:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=257
I would definitely code the 28, and maybe the 35, though uncoded 35s never bothered me.
And if you want a nice standard lens on the M8, the 40mm cron works really well: it matches the 35mm frame lines reasonably well and together they make a small outfit.
Anyway, the M8 definitely doesn't sound or feel like an M3... it's definitely bigger and not as smooth feeling. I don't know how the M8.2 shutter compares to the mechanical, cloth shutter cameras.
I've been happy with my M8, for sure.
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=257
I would definitely code the 28, and maybe the 35, though uncoded 35s never bothered me.
And if you want a nice standard lens on the M8, the 40mm cron works really well: it matches the 35mm frame lines reasonably well and together they make a small outfit.
Anyway, the M8 definitely doesn't sound or feel like an M3... it's definitely bigger and not as smooth feeling. I don't know how the M8.2 shutter compares to the mechanical, cloth shutter cameras.
I've been happy with my M8, for sure.
ampguy
Veteran
some info.
some info.
Yes, if you have 1.4 lenses and plan to use them wide open outdoors, the 1/8000 is needed and original M8 has the advantage. The 1/4000 M8 upgrades are stuck there. The M9 has an ISO pull mode to give the equivalent exposure of 1/8000, but reduced S/N, image quality of the base 160 ISO of the sensor.
Framelines on the M8 are optimized for .7m, so get loose (wide) at further distances. Upgraded M8s go too far I think, they are optimized for 2m, meaning that shooting anything closer than 2m, and you are not getting what are in the framelines. M9 goes back to 1m (.3m further than M8) to cover most anything you're going to shoot, including close.
Before you shell out hundreds on filters, I'd recommend subscribing to Sean Reid's reviews. There are some cases and lenses where you might not want to use filters, even for color. While using them can sometimes give more correct colors, they can inject corner color issues, along with the usual problems of filters - flare, vignetting, etc. In my experience coding and lens detection just isn't needed for the image, especially for b/w.
IR with the M8 is easy, put an R72 filter on. May want to set WB to tungsten, and adjust exposure to taste, use a tripod when you can, as exposures will be longer. Focus will need experimenting as you need to focus closer than what you are viewing, even closer than the red dot on older lenses indicate. Check my blog for IR examples with the M8.
I hope to get an M9 someday, but won't give up the M8. I have an RD1 as well. RD1's ISO 1600 is better than the M8s 1250, but other than that the M8 is built better and handles better with less crop and more resolution.
some info.
Yes, if you have 1.4 lenses and plan to use them wide open outdoors, the 1/8000 is needed and original M8 has the advantage. The 1/4000 M8 upgrades are stuck there. The M9 has an ISO pull mode to give the equivalent exposure of 1/8000, but reduced S/N, image quality of the base 160 ISO of the sensor.
Framelines on the M8 are optimized for .7m, so get loose (wide) at further distances. Upgraded M8s go too far I think, they are optimized for 2m, meaning that shooting anything closer than 2m, and you are not getting what are in the framelines. M9 goes back to 1m (.3m further than M8) to cover most anything you're going to shoot, including close.
Before you shell out hundreds on filters, I'd recommend subscribing to Sean Reid's reviews. There are some cases and lenses where you might not want to use filters, even for color. While using them can sometimes give more correct colors, they can inject corner color issues, along with the usual problems of filters - flare, vignetting, etc. In my experience coding and lens detection just isn't needed for the image, especially for b/w.
IR with the M8 is easy, put an R72 filter on. May want to set WB to tungsten, and adjust exposure to taste, use a tripod when you can, as exposures will be longer. Focus will need experimenting as you need to focus closer than what you are viewing, even closer than the red dot on older lenses indicate. Check my blog for IR examples with the M8.
I hope to get an M9 someday, but won't give up the M8. I have an RD1 as well. RD1's ISO 1600 is better than the M8s 1250, but other than that the M8 is built better and handles better with less crop and more resolution.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I had the sensor replaced in warranty-barely in warranty, and had the frameline upgrade done at the same time. Note my M8 was above the generally reported list of serial numbers with problems. I like the 8000 shutter speed, for ISO 160 is pretty high for one who often shoots PanF+ at 32. I also much prefer the black chrome finish, that would be my first choice with an M9 if it was available. I guess I can hope for the M9.2!
My biggest dislikes of the M8 are the crop factor with my wides, and the mass to volume ratio being so different than a film M. The shutter/cocking noise isn't that big a deal- it's quieter than a Contax G, and the cocking delay seems work well for me when trying to be discreet. But it does sound hollower than any film M I've ever used.
True.
M8 / 28/2.0 ASPH w/IR filter
My biggest dislikes of the M8 are the crop factor with my wides, and the mass to volume ratio being so different than a film M. The shutter/cocking noise isn't that big a deal- it's quieter than a Contax G, and the cocking delay seems work well for me when trying to be discreet. But it does sound hollower than any film M I've ever used.
True.
M8 / 28/2.0 ASPH w/IR filter
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