Elmar Lang
Well-known
Hello,
on the coming Saturday, Westlicht (Vienna), will take its usual, beautiful auction of vintage and historical cameras.
Looking at the pages with the RF Contax cameras, I've noticed lot no. 309, titled as "Contax II special", with the following description:
"Unengraved body, no serial number on shoe or inside, in very good condition, late winding knob, sync post on front, with uncoated Sonnar 2/5cm no.2273209, possibly made for field testing purposes without revealing the brand name".
Where "unengraved" means no "Contax" logo, or serial number on the accessory-shoe.
The position of the flash synch, made me more curious, so I've better checked the fine pictures completing the description: the removable back, immediately reveals that it's the one of a Kiev-4/4A.
More, the rewind-knob, although being a Contax-type one, is fixed with a screw not consistent with those used on a Contax; the focusing-wheel, is of Kiev-type and the leather cover, is typical of the Kievs made in the late 60s.
Here: http://www.auction2000.se/auk/w.MegaPic?inC=WLPA&inA=20170531_1638&inO=309&inSO=1 the pictures can be seen.
In other words, I think that this camera is a "No-Name Kiev", possibly "upgraded" with an unnumbered, Contax accessory shoe, a Contax, rewind knob and an uncoated, collapsible Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50/2; all easy to cannibalize from a unrepairable Contax-II.
I am surprised, because Westlicht's descriptions are usually very well, and accurately done.
This is why I'd be glad to read the opinion of the Contax-experts in this room.
Best wishes,
E.L.
on the coming Saturday, Westlicht (Vienna), will take its usual, beautiful auction of vintage and historical cameras.
Looking at the pages with the RF Contax cameras, I've noticed lot no. 309, titled as "Contax II special", with the following description:
"Unengraved body, no serial number on shoe or inside, in very good condition, late winding knob, sync post on front, with uncoated Sonnar 2/5cm no.2273209, possibly made for field testing purposes without revealing the brand name".
Where "unengraved" means no "Contax" logo, or serial number on the accessory-shoe.
The position of the flash synch, made me more curious, so I've better checked the fine pictures completing the description: the removable back, immediately reveals that it's the one of a Kiev-4/4A.
More, the rewind-knob, although being a Contax-type one, is fixed with a screw not consistent with those used on a Contax; the focusing-wheel, is of Kiev-type and the leather cover, is typical of the Kievs made in the late 60s.
Here: http://www.auction2000.se/auk/w.MegaPic?inC=WLPA&inA=20170531_1638&inO=309&inSO=1 the pictures can be seen.
In other words, I think that this camera is a "No-Name Kiev", possibly "upgraded" with an unnumbered, Contax accessory shoe, a Contax, rewind knob and an uncoated, collapsible Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50/2; all easy to cannibalize from a unrepairable Contax-II.
I am surprised, because Westlicht's descriptions are usually very well, and accurately done.
This is why I'd be glad to read the opinion of the Contax-experts in this room.
Best wishes,
E.L.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Flash sync contact is a dead give-away that the camera is a Kiev.
Would not a real Contax II have a logo embossed on the back door leather ?
Would not a real Contax II have a logo embossed on the back door leather ?
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
The focus wheel is another clue
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Perhaps another thing that persuaded the author of the catalogue description, to write: " (...)possibly made for field testing purposes without revealing the brand name." ...
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
But it's still listed as a Contax II. I'd say Westlicht has some further evidence to provide that this is a Contax.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
*If you have any questions regarding a particular lot, please contact us*, they write:
Chuffed Cheese
Established
Contact 'em.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
I will contact them.
They usually reply with excellent information and detail.
They usually reply with excellent information and detail.
Chuffed Cheese
Established
Yeah, they would probably appreciate the concerns you present. An auction house relies on reputation.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Except Catawiki, they don't care as long as they make money from both the seller and the buyer...
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Well, they're humans, so mistakes can occur...
by the way, if an auction house intentionally writes incorrect descriptions (and this isn't the case), only to improve their income from the sellers' and buyers' commissions, such a firm, won't last long.
P.S.: I've never checked Catawiki sales: how are they, regarding quality, accuracy etc.?
by the way, if an auction house intentionally writes incorrect descriptions (and this isn't the case), only to improve their income from the sellers' and buyers' commissions, such a firm, won't last long.
P.S.: I've never checked Catawiki sales: how are they, regarding quality, accuracy etc.?
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
That sounds more like a cop-out on their part, to absolve them from the possibility that the camera is intentionally mis-described.
I would expect a bit better product research from a hoity-toity auction house of renown. And that is an easy thing to do in the age of the internet and google, not 100% accurate, yes I agree, but better than a thinly disguised Caveat emptor to protect their posterior.
Many collectors ( and that is who this camera is aimed at) are fully aware of the No Name Kiev from around 1963, sold with the f2 Zeiss Jena Sonnar and also aware about the few rare and desirable and labelled post-war Dresden made Contax II .
Highway 61
Revisited
That's one of the famous "No name Contax" which used to be sold with a Zeiss-Opton Sonnar in 1963-1964. Those were "no name Kiev 4A" actually.
Here the accessory shoe has no serial number, so it can come from a Contax body. It also can be a blank Kiev part.
Otherwise, this is a Kiev 4A from the 1960 era with, here, a genuine prewar collapsible uncoated Sonnar. It's worth $25 for the body and $90 for the lens if all the lens elements are genuine Zeiss ones with a perfect, unscratched front element.
Read this (scroll down the article chapters) :
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
Here the accessory shoe has no serial number, so it can come from a Contax body. It also can be a blank Kiev part.
Otherwise, this is a Kiev 4A from the 1960 era with, here, a genuine prewar collapsible uncoated Sonnar. It's worth $25 for the body and $90 for the lens if all the lens elements are genuine Zeiss ones with a perfect, unscratched front element.
Read this (scroll down the article chapters) :
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
johank
Established
The bottom plate is a Kiev giveaway too.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
I see that all comments, perfectly coincide with my own observations, written in my opening post.
Due to the very good reputation of Westlicht, I am sure that it was just a human mistake. I haven't seen any other problem, reading the catalogue.
Best wishes,
E.L.
Due to the very good reputation of Westlicht, I am sure that it was just a human mistake. I haven't seen any other problem, reading the catalogue.
Best wishes,
E.L.
Paul T.
Veteran
That level of ignorance is pretty shocking.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Sold for 2.000,- Euro, plus buyer's commission.
Chuffed Cheese
Established
wow...........
David Hughes
David Hughes
ROFL...
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. OK"
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. OK"
Highway 61
Revisited
There is one idiot waking up on every morning.