chodgson45
Grain is Good
Hello fellow Rangefinder fans!
I have been looking and doing research for a rangefinder with interchangeable lens. I am a WWII reenactor and would need something that fits the part.
I had been looking at Leica Screw Mounts but I soon realized that the Name tends to inflate prices and had read a few things about shutter problems. A friend of mine who does combat correspondent reminded me of the Contax II, III, IIA and the IIIA - apparently known for their reliability, better shutters and can be a bit cheaper in price (and from what I have read the II and the III were a bit more advanced than the Leicas of the Pre-War Era).
So I have been searching and reading for the last week. I have read from Harry Sherer's website to Avoid Contax's coming out of LA on eBay (Assuming Kevin's Cameras...frankly the listings are shifty to me anyways) and the Netherlands. My normal site Pacific Rim has nothing in stock and I can't find a retailer I trust as I have found no up-to-date reviews.
So my questions:
1) Should I try and obtain a II/III or a IIA/IIIA? I'm concerned about reliability and the requirements for maintenance. Are the Post-War camera's more likely to fail compared to the Pre-War's. I will not be using the built in light meter on the III/IIIA so that is not a factor to me (I have a camera App and a lightmeter that are more accurate...at least for me
).
2) Where is a reliable source to obtain a Contax in great mechanical condition. I don't exactly care about the exterior chrome and what not...I just want to sink 400-800 dollars into a camera that has a correctly functioning shutter and has a film mechanism that works! (So if the seller says the shutter speeds fire correctly - I get a camera as described.)
3) I am familiar to the ways of the Rangefinder (I own a Kodak Retina II Type 142 - and love it!) and would like to know how bright the rangefinders are on the Post and Pre-War models. I had read that the Pre-War Cameras had larger Finders? (Might have read that incorrectly as it might have been the Viewfinder...).
Any help you can give me will be appreciated. I'm just looking right now, and when I get the money together I would very much like to pull the trigger with a lot of education on the product I am buying.
And I dare say it in this sub-forum, if anyone has a few opinions on the Contax VS the Screw-Mount Leica (for both Pre and Post War) or the early M Series Lecia, I would very much appreciate it
Thanks,
Corey
I have been looking and doing research for a rangefinder with interchangeable lens. I am a WWII reenactor and would need something that fits the part.
I had been looking at Leica Screw Mounts but I soon realized that the Name tends to inflate prices and had read a few things about shutter problems. A friend of mine who does combat correspondent reminded me of the Contax II, III, IIA and the IIIA - apparently known for their reliability, better shutters and can be a bit cheaper in price (and from what I have read the II and the III were a bit more advanced than the Leicas of the Pre-War Era).
So I have been searching and reading for the last week. I have read from Harry Sherer's website to Avoid Contax's coming out of LA on eBay (Assuming Kevin's Cameras...frankly the listings are shifty to me anyways) and the Netherlands. My normal site Pacific Rim has nothing in stock and I can't find a retailer I trust as I have found no up-to-date reviews.
So my questions:
1) Should I try and obtain a II/III or a IIA/IIIA? I'm concerned about reliability and the requirements for maintenance. Are the Post-War camera's more likely to fail compared to the Pre-War's. I will not be using the built in light meter on the III/IIIA so that is not a factor to me (I have a camera App and a lightmeter that are more accurate...at least for me
).2) Where is a reliable source to obtain a Contax in great mechanical condition. I don't exactly care about the exterior chrome and what not...I just want to sink 400-800 dollars into a camera that has a correctly functioning shutter and has a film mechanism that works! (So if the seller says the shutter speeds fire correctly - I get a camera as described.)
3) I am familiar to the ways of the Rangefinder (I own a Kodak Retina II Type 142 - and love it!) and would like to know how bright the rangefinders are on the Post and Pre-War models. I had read that the Pre-War Cameras had larger Finders? (Might have read that incorrectly as it might have been the Viewfinder...).
Any help you can give me will be appreciated. I'm just looking right now, and when I get the money together I would very much like to pull the trigger with a lot of education on the product I am buying.
And I dare say it in this sub-forum, if anyone has a few opinions on the Contax VS the Screw-Mount Leica (for both Pre and Post War) or the early M Series Lecia, I would very much appreciate it
Thanks,
Corey
bowieknife
Established
for reenactment, a Kiev copy should suffice, you don't want to drop a valuable prewar Contax ? and as Leicas are expensive, why not a FED 1 or Zorki 1, they look like a Leica II
russian lenses are fine too, and as you gain confidence, you'll be able to find a collectible Contax or Leica later
buying on the auctions sites is ALWAYS risky: a fine looking Contax 1 I bought from a German site had a seized shutter and fungus infested lens, a Leotax f I bought in the States had a shutter cloth full of pinholes, both sellers didn't answer to my complaints
russian lenses are fine too, and as you gain confidence, you'll be able to find a collectible Contax or Leica later
buying on the auctions sites is ALWAYS risky: a fine looking Contax 1 I bought from a German site had a seized shutter and fungus infested lens, a Leotax f I bought in the States had a shutter cloth full of pinholes, both sellers didn't answer to my complaints
I Love Film
Well-known
A IIA and IIIA would be post war, not correct for WWII.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
i think "400-800 dollars" should get you a well working pre-war contax with a good lens, in good shape.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
the rangefinders on the contaxes are quite bright and contrasty, easy to use, THOUGH, ther viewfinder windows are very squinty. The eye piece is very very small. I can imagine it is impossible to use for glass wearers.
But the rf itself is good.
I have no experience with screw mount Leicas but the contaxes are very well built and a pleasure to use.
None of the two is a pleasure to load (for me), though i prefer the contax loading against even the early M-leica loading. I just go nuts from bottom loaders.
On the other hand i must admit, that my M2 has a much nicer viewfinder with large eyepiece, and the film winding + rewinding is an order of magnitude nicer than on the contax due to the lever wind and the little flip-out rewind arm.
These two features are not present on the screw mount Leicas so i expect those score the same as the contax.
But the rf itself is good.
I have no experience with screw mount Leicas but the contaxes are very well built and a pleasure to use.
None of the two is a pleasure to load (for me), though i prefer the contax loading against even the early M-leica loading. I just go nuts from bottom loaders.
On the other hand i must admit, that my M2 has a much nicer viewfinder with large eyepiece, and the film winding + rewinding is an order of magnitude nicer than on the contax due to the lever wind and the little flip-out rewind arm.
These two features are not present on the screw mount Leicas so i expect those score the same as the contax.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
by the way I live in the Netherlands and i dont really understand Henry's problems with the contaxes coming from here
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I think you will find that the pre war Contax II and III are not too far behind the Leica SM camera price wise. The shutter ribbons on the Contax II and III have a tendency to break if they are the original ones. Not a flaw just age related as are dried out shutter curtains with Leicas. That is the trouble, after purchase costs to get it running properly, with real vintage equipment if you want to use it. FSU cameras like the Kiev, FED and Zorki are cheaper to buy but can have problems due to quality control issues which may require money to be spent to get them properly working too.
Two out of three post war Leica SM camera I have needed the beam splitters replaced and an overhaul to get them up to snuff. The RF patch faded to the point where you really could not see them. The Contax II had broken shutter ribbons and was over hauled by Henry with several years waiting period. The Contax III broke it's original ribbons shortly after purchase.Of the FSU cameras I have had most had issues of some sort that had to be sorted too.
No matter which of the cameras mentioned that you eventually purchase it would be prudent to set aside monies for maintenance. Just saying don't expect a 70 year old camera to work like new.
Bob
Two out of three post war Leica SM camera I have needed the beam splitters replaced and an overhaul to get them up to snuff. The RF patch faded to the point where you really could not see them. The Contax II had broken shutter ribbons and was over hauled by Henry with several years waiting period. The Contax III broke it's original ribbons shortly after purchase.Of the FSU cameras I have had most had issues of some sort that had to be sorted too.
No matter which of the cameras mentioned that you eventually purchase it would be prudent to set aside monies for maintenance. Just saying don't expect a 70 year old camera to work like new.
Bob
dexdog
Veteran
by the way I live in the Netherlands and i dont really understand Henry's problems with the contaxes coming from here
Not Netherlands in general, just a certain seller on eBay. Henry has apparently been asked to fix cameras that this seller has screwed up.
Highway 61
Revisited
by the way I live in the Netherlands and i dont really understand Henry's problems with the contaxes coming from here
Vade retro Satanas
Corey, here are a few tips :
- for WWII reenacting, you must limit your range to either Contax I, II and III or Leica Standard up to Leica IIIc cameras (first model with the step under the R lever, yet as those few "wartime" IIIc were mainly used by the German army, non-German photojournalists rather used some IIIa and IIIb models)
- avoid the Contax I (extremely unreliable)
- most of the Contax III meters which you will find won't work
- most of the Contax II / III shutters which you will find will need shutter ribbons replacement (unless already and recently done) and a deep service (interior cleaning, focusing helical cleaning and lubricating, etc)
- the Contax II / III rangefinder is the most accurate rangefinder installed inside a 35mm film camera ever
- the Contax II and III viewfinder is larger than the IIa and IIIa one and for owning one and wearing glasses, and for owning a IIa too, I can tell that what you see through it wearing glasses is equivalent were it a prewar or a postwar Contax, and anyway larger and more useful than what you see through a screw mount Leica finder
- Robert Capa documented many of the WWII episodes using two Contax II bodies but many other war correspondents of that time (example : George Rodger) used some Leica cameras (III models, mainly)
- screw mount Leicas aren't particularly prone to shutter problems unless the cloth has got holes in it, but like any old photographic machine they need to be serviced from time to time
- the Contax loads exactly like a Nikon F but for the removable take-up spool
- the Leica M cameras aren't comparable with either the Contax or the screw mount Leica cameras - this is a totally different camera. The only comparison which can be done is with the Contax II, aesthetically wise : same size, same weight, same Bauhaus design (top cover streamlines, finders windows frames, shape of the selftimer lever)
- there is a guy named Henry Scherer out there in California
chodgson45
Grain is Good
We can actually use the IIA/IIIA due to the appearance of the camera. I am aware the M Series is a different beast compared to the SM Leica and the Contax. Also - even though the M is not period correct for WWII, I'd still use it. The WWII reenacting aspect is semi-important, however I'd be using the camera for much more than reenacting.
I Don't want to waste money on a Clunky Soviet Copy, as I see it that is a chunk of Money that I could be spending on either a much better camera or even money that could be saved for Student loan repayment.
I realize that I will need to do some sort of maintenance on the camera - it's not like buying a brand new one. My only concern is finding someone to CLA and repair a Contax without a two year turn around period.
So if I were to obtain a Contax (Be it Pre-War or Post-War) who could I send it to that doesn't have a two year waiting list for a CLA and, if for a pre-war Contax, a shutter ribbon replacement.
I am aware of a YYeCAMERA for Leicas, and if get a SM Leica I will go through them (A refurbished camera and lens is mighty appealing).
Finally - thanks for the information, I really appreciate it!
Corey
I Don't want to waste money on a Clunky Soviet Copy, as I see it that is a chunk of Money that I could be spending on either a much better camera or even money that could be saved for Student loan repayment.
I realize that I will need to do some sort of maintenance on the camera - it's not like buying a brand new one. My only concern is finding someone to CLA and repair a Contax without a two year turn around period.
So if I were to obtain a Contax (Be it Pre-War or Post-War) who could I send it to that doesn't have a two year waiting list for a CLA and, if for a pre-war Contax, a shutter ribbon replacement.
I am aware of a YYeCAMERA for Leicas, and if get a SM Leica I will go through them (A refurbished camera and lens is mighty appealing).
Finally - thanks for the information, I really appreciate it!
Corey
Highway 61
Revisited
I'm afraid there are very few repairman in the USA who can do that, hence Henry Scherer's rants - preeching in the desert and being the King of an empty kingdom leads you to tell and write many stupid things, in general.
Other RFF members may tell you some repairmen coordinates in Germany. I am thinking of "Sevo" and "rmxd".
The trick with the prewar Contax is to learn how to do it yourself. This is heavily time consuming but very affordable, without special tools. I am not a repair person, yet since 2001 I successfully fully overhauled five Contax II bodies myself, including shutter ribbons replacement, and all of them are still running strong, including mine.
Of course you will hear and read, from people earning their living with those repairs, that somebody performing such a job at home as a hobby can't do a proper job, and that DIY instructions are junk, etc etc .
There is a wonderful website from Canada, The Kiev Survival Site (click on the link) which perfectly describes how to service a Kiev camera. Remember - prewar Contax and Kiev cameras are truly identical.
furcafe
Veteran
There are actually quite a few places where you can get a Contax fixed: Jerry Sorin in Bronx, NY, Essex (aka Camerarepair.com) in Carlstadt, NJ, Ken Ruth of Bald Mountain, CA, Frank Marshman of Harrisonburg, VA are a few.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
KEH has several early Contax cameras and a large selection of lenses. S
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
http://www.klassik-kameras.com/, first of all - a source for fully refurbished Contax cameras, and he does repairs too. Most good generic/Leica repair men I know will do Contax too - but only as long as they don't need a spare part, in which case they'll usually throw in the towel.
Personally I've gone over to fix my own - once you've got a cupboard full, that is the only way to keep it in control (and wasting a camera or two to learn on and as a future parts spender grows economically feasible).
oftheherd
Veteran
If you decide to go with a FSU camera, FEDKA ( http://www.fedka.com/catalog/ ) always gets good reviews. I have never bought from him personally, but according to RFF members who have commented, he seems to either sell good equipment, or repair/replace if for free.
Good luck in your search.
Good luck in your search.
chodgson45
Grain is Good
Thanks for the links guys.
I have decided on the IIA, with an attachable light meter (pulling out my phone at events isn't smiled upon and my Period GE light meter is far from accurate considering it was made in 1941....http://www.cameraquest.com/voivcmet2.htm)
Two last questions:
Reading Harry's site he talks a lot about Mold and non-lubrication....making the Contax sound like a portable Dirty-Bomb that has the functionality of a seized up truck engine.
To be frank: Is he full of bull and simply trying to get more customers?
The camera will be taken apart and lubed as I have found the instructions on Rick Oleson's glorious website (And after having had contact with him on my horrible 521/12 Ikonta Shutter experience - I trust his word as good as gold) and I will be purchasing a nice set of German (or whatever kind will not strip the delicate screws in my cameras.....) Screwdrivers along with some proper lubricant that will last a while.
The shutter - if it needs calibrated - will be researched on how to properly do so.
And finally: Are Contax Mount lenses hard to obtain/ do they make a Leica adapter that will provide me with a large variety of lens choices.
I am asking a lot of questions I know - but I just want to be prepared for everything when I obtain my camera. This is an amazing community and I greatly appreciate all the help that has been given to me.
-Corey
I have decided on the IIA, with an attachable light meter (pulling out my phone at events isn't smiled upon and my Period GE light meter is far from accurate considering it was made in 1941....http://www.cameraquest.com/voivcmet2.htm)
Two last questions:
Reading Harry's site he talks a lot about Mold and non-lubrication....making the Contax sound like a portable Dirty-Bomb that has the functionality of a seized up truck engine.
To be frank: Is he full of bull and simply trying to get more customers?
The camera will be taken apart and lubed as I have found the instructions on Rick Oleson's glorious website (And after having had contact with him on my horrible 521/12 Ikonta Shutter experience - I trust his word as good as gold) and I will be purchasing a nice set of German (or whatever kind will not strip the delicate screws in my cameras.....) Screwdrivers along with some proper lubricant that will last a while.
The shutter - if it needs calibrated - will be researched on how to properly do so.
And finally: Are Contax Mount lenses hard to obtain/ do they make a Leica adapter that will provide me with a large variety of lens choices.
I am asking a lot of questions I know - but I just want to be prepared for everything when I obtain my camera. This is an amazing community and I greatly appreciate all the help that has been given to me.
-Corey
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I own a post-war Contax IIa, and I love it. Its a beautiful machine.
That being said, I bought it realizing that it was more or less a dead-end in terms of acquiring more lenses or accessories.
IMHO there are very few Contax II/III lenses available in the used market. On RFF they appear only rarely, it seems. When they do appear, people seem to ask exorbitant prices for them.
About a year ago I contemplated expanding my lens collection for the Contax IIa, but after a few months I realized it was a fool's errand. Either I had to pay far too much money to buy a handful of hard-to-find lenses, or be satisfied with the stock 50mm Sonnar. I chose the latter.
In terms of adapters, I am not sure of this -- I wish I could give advice about it. From what I remember reading, there are lens adapters for the Contax G-series, but I'm not sure about the earlier IIa/IIIa series.
If I remember correctly, there are lens registration problems with using other Contax / Zeiss designs with a Leica body, specifically the 35mm lens, but I could be wrong. At any rate, they're not easy to find, which makes an adapter a moot point.
That being said, I bought it realizing that it was more or less a dead-end in terms of acquiring more lenses or accessories.
IMHO there are very few Contax II/III lenses available in the used market. On RFF they appear only rarely, it seems. When they do appear, people seem to ask exorbitant prices for them.
About a year ago I contemplated expanding my lens collection for the Contax IIa, but after a few months I realized it was a fool's errand. Either I had to pay far too much money to buy a handful of hard-to-find lenses, or be satisfied with the stock 50mm Sonnar. I chose the latter.
In terms of adapters, I am not sure of this -- I wish I could give advice about it. From what I remember reading, there are lens adapters for the Contax G-series, but I'm not sure about the earlier IIa/IIIa series.
If I remember correctly, there are lens registration problems with using other Contax / Zeiss designs with a Leica body, specifically the 35mm lens, but I could be wrong. At any rate, they're not easy to find, which makes an adapter a moot point.
fbf
Well-known
I prefer II over III, IIa over IIIa. If I have to choose one, I will choose IIa.
It's beautifully made and IMHO it's as good as Leica in the same era. The viewfinder is not as bright as Leica and few technicians can do the cleaning job right. 50mm lens is generally very cheap. Anything wider will cost you some money. contax IIa + 50/1.5 sonnar is a sweet combo and will probably meet 95% of your need anyway.
It's beautifully made and IMHO it's as good as Leica in the same era. The viewfinder is not as bright as Leica and few technicians can do the cleaning job right. 50mm lens is generally very cheap. Anything wider will cost you some money. contax IIa + 50/1.5 sonnar is a sweet combo and will probably meet 95% of your need anyway.
chodgson45
Grain is Good
I've noticed the severe lack of lens porn for the Contax. I think I'd just want a collapsible 50mm, a 135mm (or something that'll reach a bit further) and a 35mm. Mainly the First and last ones.
On the adapter I mean putting Leica Mount Lenses on a Contax - to provide me with a larger selection
On the adapter I mean putting Leica Mount Lenses on a Contax - to provide me with a larger selection
Highway 61
Revisited
Question 1 : there are some valuable information on his website here and there, but there is also some total BS, and although the style he writes with won't give you sinus cancer
you may be in for a serious headache after a few minutes reading at the very least. Were I living in NYC, I'd call it schmitz-schmutz or something
All in all, you can't take what he writes for granted, because the few valuable and checked data are surrounded by, say, funny things.
Question 2 : the Contax IIa is a very nice camera, yet some of them won't work @1/1250 and 1/500 even after a full overhaul. This is due to some dumb design of some internal parts which have too much drag and friction and which make that camera not tolerant to the least machining errors of some gears and shafts. This is well documented on Rick Oleson's pages. So, once you've got yours, have it tested at 1/1250 and 1/500. If the shutter runs closed at these speeds, you may be in a real mess.
If you find one that works well at the two highest speeds even when using the selftimer, get stuck with it.