A few questions about my new Canonet QL-17 GIII

[CiggyTardust]

Hi all,

I am completely new to photography, film and rangefinders. I've been doing plenty of research about shooting with manual settings on my new (to me) Canonet QL-17 but I still have a few basic questions as I've never done this before.

The Canonet QL-17 comes with Automatic or Shutter Priority Mode which I understand will adjust the F-stop according to the ISO and shutter speed that I choose. Now as a beginner, I'm still learning what the best settings are for each situation, but from what I understand depth of field will change depending on the F stop... so if the camera is selecting the F stop for me in automatic mode, how can I have any control over the depth of field? I'd like to shoot a landscape, for example, and maybe later a portrait with the background more blurred... is there any way to have control over this in Shutter Priority mode? If I shoot in Shutter Priority, I don't want to get blurry landscapes on my very first roll, for example. Should I just avoid that and go totally manual?

Are there some basic all-around settings I can start with as I experiment and learn how to do this? Like, an optimal shutter speed/F stop for a few basic situations in overcast or sunny weather? I've been reading as much as I can but it's still the kind of thing that most people assume you already understand, either through digital photography or years of shooting film.

I'll be starting with ISO 400 film and shooting street photography, landscapes and portraits outside as I figure this all out.

Thanks for your help!

 

[zian]

The QL17 has Shutter Priority Auto Exposure (you pick shutter speed, camera picks aperture), or you can shoot with full manual control.

The QL17 has a match needle indicator in the viewfinder to indicate what the aperture the meter deems as correct. In order to have the camera select a smaller aperture to increase your DoF, you can decrease your shutter speed.

You could benefit from reading about the Triangle of Exposure (how film ISO, shutter speed, and aperture affect exposure).

 

[CMur12]

Welcome CiggyTardust!

With shutter-priority automation, you select shutter speed and it shows you in the finder which aperture has been chosen by the camera for proper exposure. When you change the shutter speed, it will automatically change the aperture to maintain the same exposure.

So, you would change the shutter speed until the needle in the finder shows the aperture that you want. Then you would check the shutter speed you ended up with, to make sure that it is okay for the purposes of the photo.

- Murray

 

[btgc]

Hey, dude! Nothing wrong with your camera, it has packed decades of knowledge and technology into it. You just have to get used to its capabilities and limitations.

It depends on speed of film you have loaded and light conditions out there. If you have set, say 1/125 with ISO100 film, yet sun is low and/or sky is overcast, camera may open aperture to, say f/4 or wider (lower f-stop number). Is it an issue? It depends. If you want landscape with an object in close foreground focused to, then background will not be sharp. Is this bad or not? It depends on your merit. If you don't include close objects into frame, depth of field will let you have more or less sharp picture, assuming camera is steady during exposure (I mentioned 125, but generally it can be much slower speed, depending on light).

That said, you'll use some of DOF charts/calculators to get idea of how "thick" slice of DOF you are getting at distinct aperture and distance from camera to object, these two are related. This and your evaluations of light will lead you to conclusion on how fast film you have to use to get comfortable shutter speeds and apertures. These all depend on area you live, month of year, time of day because amount of light changes. Also shoot location means a lot as at dusk one can appear in woods or brightly lit venue, so it's not really possible to offer ready figures.

Using Tv camera is like always starting to move from left feet, and using Av camera (like automatic Yashicas) would be right feet. Nothing wrong with either, just have to memorize it and don't miss a start signal. With Canonet you control depth of field by changing speed and distance to object, with any Av camera one would directly change aperture but have to keep in mind according speed change and visualize if that speed is appropriate for exposure of a given scene.

 

[CMur12]

Our new member and photographer may not know what Tv and Av are.

Tv = "time value" or shutter-priority automation (you set the shutter speed and the camera automatically selects and sets the aperture).

Av = "aperture value" or aperture-priority automation (you set the aperture and the camera automatically selects and sets the shutter speed).

- Murray

 

[Dawid]

Hi and welcome!

If you are going to shoot street photography you should learn how to shoot in manual mode (estimating exposure with Sunny 16 rule is quite easy) and if you wish to have full control over DOF read about zone focusing system.

Btw, Canonet QL-17 GIII is really nice camera. It has a great viewfinder with parallax correction and razor sharp lens. 🙂

 

[dmr]

I actually have two of these and use both semi-regularly, most recently with Cinestill 800 film. (Respooled and de-remjetted Eastman motion picture film.)

I got the first one maybe 12 years ago at the urging of the gang here when I was just getting back into rangefinder photography. I then picked up a black one a few years later when I unexpectedly won an Ebay auction for it. I successfully re-calibrated the chrome one to handle the then-commonly-available ISO 1600 film.

If you are going to shoot street photography you should learn how to shoot in manual mode (estimating exposure with Sunny 16 rule is quite easy) and if you wish to have full control over DOF read about zone focusing system.

I might suggest that you use the auto exposure as a "suggestion" and adjust things if the sanity check seems a bit wonky. There's really a lot of room for exposure error with both B&W and color negative film. Slide film can't take a joke, so it's far more important to carefully watch the exposure (and bracket!) when shooting slides.

My one complaint about the GIII is the lack of a true match-needle mode. Auto mode shows you what the f-stop is gonna be and you can't tweak the iris to adjust for conditions. You can, sorta, with the shutter speed and you can fake it by holding the exposure (half-press the button) while moving the camera to where it agrees more with what you think it should be.

You'll learn to tweak the exposure and the film type to get the depth of field you want. Use slower films and faster shutter speeds when you want to shoot close to wide open for the "bokeh" effects, which are very nice on that camera. Here's an example shot with the GIII using Kodachrome:

Btw, Canonet QL-17 GIII is really nice camera. It has a great viewfinder with parallax correction and razor sharp lens. 🙂

I agree 110% here. There's a real sweet spot when you combine 1970s vintage glass with 21st. century film! You have the newer emulsions which are cleaner and faster plus the optics which were designed when more light was needed.

(Shameless plug) 🙂 Click on the New Gallery link just below and select the "Canon GIII" tag in the tag cloud for many examples of shots using this camera.

 

[splitimageview]

Yes, it's a shutter priority camera, but it's easy to adjust the shutter speed dial until you get the aperture you want. Of course, don't let the speed get too low if it's not on a tripod, and be careful not to overexpose if it is bright outside (I use an ND filter on mine if i want to shoot at wide apertures in daylight.)

Most people should be able to hand-hold down to 1/30 or so with this camera, maybe lower if you haven't had any coffee.

 

[dmr]

Most people should be able to hand-hold down to 1/30 or so with this camera, maybe lower if you haven't had any coffee.

My experience with the GIII is that I can almost always hand-hold at 1/60, usually at 1/30, sometimes at 1/15, and seldom, but I've tried it, at 1/8. The shorter lens of the GIII makes it a bit more forgiving as far as hand-holding.

I very seldom drink coffee, but I make up for it with Diet Coke. 🙂

 

[splitimageview]

Bear in mind at ISO 400 in bright sunlight, that's about 1/500 at f/8. No problem hand-holding at that speed, if you want a wider aperture in that situation, you'll need slower film and/or an ND filter.

 

[Dawid]

Bear in mind at ISO 400 in bright sunlight, that's about 1/500 at f/8.

So, with ISO 400 film loaded up, on a bright sunny day, just set the shutter speed to 1/250, aperure to f/11, prefocus the lens to 5 meters (15 feet) and everything will be in focus from 2,5 meters (8 feet) to infinity. Now you can be really fast, just frame and shoot.

 

[Dwig]

Bear in mind at ISO 400 in bright sunlight, that's about 1/500 at f/8. No problem hand-holding at that speed, if you want a wider aperture in that situation, you'll need slower film and/or an ND filter.

Possibly in modern polluted cities and/or far from the equator in winter, but in clean air at mid-latitudes the proper exposure would be more like 1/500 @ f/14. Using f/8 would produce nearly 2 stops overexposure.

With leaf shutters you need to compensate when using very small apertures (~f/11 and smaller with 60mm and shorter lenses, smaller f/stops with longer FL). Since the shutter blades start to open at the very center and the last portion to close is also the very center the exposure time at very small apertures is longer than the effective exposure at full aperture, often by a full stop.

 

[splitimageview]

For reference, I was using EV 15 which is 1/500 at f/8, but the point is relevant in either case, that an ND filter is handy as well as lower ISO film if shooting at wider apertures is desired.

 

[Dwig]

... an ND filter is handy as well as lower ISO film if shooting at wider apertures is desired.

Quite true, and it should be noted that the meter cell in the QL17 is mounted just above the lens elements and within the filter thread. This means that it would be "looking" through the filter and automatically taking in to account the light attenuation of an ND filter. You wouldn't have to manually adjust for it.

 

[Dawid]

Possibly in modern polluted cities and/or far from the equator in winter, but in clean air at mid-latitudes the proper exposure would be more like 1/500 @ f/14. Using f/8 would produce nearly 2 stops overexposure..

Fortunately, film is very tolerant of overexposure (two stops is not a big deal). In general, it is better to overexpose film than to underexpose it. 🙂

CiggyTardust, If you want your Canonet's light meter to measure accurately, you need to find proper battery. It was designed to work with discontinued mercury cells (1.35 volt). I suggest 1.4 volt zinc air battery as a replacement.

 

[Dwig]

Fortunately, film is very tolerant of overexposure (two stops is not a big deal). In general, it is better to overexpose film than to underexpose it. 🙂...

Somewhat true of negative films, particularily C-41 chromagenic films, but totally false in general.

Two stop over exposure will destroy images on transparency/slide fillms. It will also compress highlight detail on negative films. It will reduce both grain and sharpness on C-41 films, but on conventional B&W negative films it will often increase grain.

 

[CiggyTardust]

Thanks so much for all the helpful replies. What a great community 🙂

I just finished shooting my first roll outside yesterday and learned quite a bit by just jumping in. I did come to find, as several have mentioned here, that adjusting the shutter speed did help me have some control over f-stop so I just did that. Thing is, I was using 400 ISO film and found that, most of the time it was too bright outside to get the f-stop under anything but 11 or so unless I went into shady areas. And to get it to an acceptable range (otherwise it wouldn't shoot), I had to get the shutter speed up to 500 or 250th of a second, which brings me to my next question... is there any disadvantage to always shooting at a high shutter speed in a situation like that?

I think in the future I will work with 200 ISO or less because I like to go out during the day and have a little more flexibility.

Also, am I to understand that most people shooting rangefinders like the Canonet tend to stick with manual mode when doing street photography? I think I might use the Automatic mode while I learn how all this works but am happy to go 100% manual in time if that's the best approach.

 

[splitimageview]

Thing is, I was using 400 ISO film and found that, most of the time it was too bright outside to get the f-stop under anything but 11 or so unless I went into shady areas. And to get it to an acceptable range (otherwise it wouldn't shoot), I had to get the shutter speed up to 500 or 250th of a second, which brings me to my next question... is there any disadvantage to always shooting at a high shutter speed in a situation like that?

Umm...yeah.

ISO 200 is only one stop, you might try even slower film and/or ND filter as suggested earlier. 🙂

Sure, you could use manual. Use what you prefer, there is no reason to shoot manual just because other people might. There is no 'best', use what you prefer and what works for you.

 

[dmr]

which brings me to my next question... is there any disadvantage to always shooting at a high shutter speed in a situation like that?

I always think faster is better except when trying for some kind of motion blur effect or something. Getting that "bridal veil" look to a waterfall comes to mind immediately.

 

[thawkins]

My QL17 has a great meter. I never tweak the exposure and always get a great picture.