A flash question

philipus

philipus

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I am very occasionally using a simple National PE-1405 flash with my M4 and TTL but I'm interested in using more flash, both fill during the day and in the evenings, and my flash is too simple.

I'm looking for a flash that has Auto but preferably also a manual mode, and allows adjusting the power level at least a bit. I'd like it to be fairly small, akin to the 1405. Great if it could tilt up but not necessary as I'd be using it with a cord and possibly a bracket.

Edit again: To show that I've done a bit of homework I should have added that I've had a look at the Nikon SB-30 which is interesting since it can adjust the power. But perhaps there are other options too?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Philip

Edit: The flash looks much larger on the below picture than it is. It's the height of the TTL approximately.
19662124079_6478836595_c.jpg
 
I use a Leica SF20. Can be used in TTL mode with my M7, Auto mode with my M4. Has power setting in 1/3 stops and is reasonable small. Output is limited with a guide number of 20 but sufficient for small sized rooms.
 
I use both the Sunpak PF20 and the Metz 34 C's when I want a small but capable flash on my M4. I much prefer the Metz because it does not hit my forehead like the Sunpak. The Sunpak does not have a PC socket so you need a cold sore PC adapter (unless your M4 has a modified shoe.

Also, you might already know this, but forget fill flash unless you shoot slow film.
 
Leica SF24d plus a Leicagoodies Sfill. Put the TTL circuit in your camera to use! You would need a hot shoe adapter for it to work with the M4 but it's small enough to carry with you and it works well enough to throw a little light when you need it. It doesn't offer bounce or many features of bigger flashes but I have found if I want more power or control, I'll use a Pocket Wizard and off camera lighting. Metz flashes works fine but are just too big on the M bodies.
 
When you get both Manual and Auto the flashes get large. I found a Vivitar 2600 and its brother with tilt head that isn't much bigger than yours. They are really not strong enough to do fill in bright sun unless you use really slow film. But I use it outside all the time (open shade, twilight fill, etc).

Some guy that everyone is hot for on RFF, when he was using film, had a set up like you have but he did use the Vivitar 2600 (the one with tilt head).

You can see it used on this video @ 3:30 minutes into the video.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=29a969a41e07cf605f7cabf3c662c133&action=view
 
Whichever flash you get check that it's trigger voltage is compatible with the TTL (some older units have pretty high trigger voltage).

I use as a small and kinda expendable flash a Vivitar 252: two auto settings + manual. It looks completely beat up but it just never dies. It has a small cord folded underneath, so it's possible to hold the flash with your hand and do some rudimentary flash bounce. Slightly bigger is an SB-20 Speedlight, with three auto settings + manual and a proxy bounce setting. About the same height but bulkier. Best of all (but more expensive) the SF-20/24D. When my SF24D dies I am definitely getting another one. Use it also with a Nikon SC-17 cord for off camera flash. I also have the Sfill but never really used it as it makes for a slightly cumbersome setup. Metz flashes have a great reputation -- the Metz 32 seems particularly well-suited for an M. That said the only two flashes that have ever died on me were two Metz 36s.

.
 
Thank you very much for all the replies and the wealth of info. I was unaware of most of the flashes you mention.

I only posted the photo to show the relative size of the flash. Ideally I wouldn't want a much larger flash. My M4 has a connector for the flash and triggers it without an adapter, so I guess it was modified at some point. And the one in the picture is the TTL Millennium (well spotted MadNBad - I suspect you recognise them easily 😉 )

Perhaps just a few follow-up questions regarding some of the flashes.

The SF20 and the SF24D, what is really the difference between them? I'm not so keen on TTL because I used TTL with my EOS before but disliked the pre-flash. But if the SF-20/24D offer 1/3 stop, which is very fine-tuned, adjustment of the output then I might simply go for one of those. I've seen them for 100-150 Eur used in good condition. It's a lot for a flash if I only use Auto or Manual, but perhaps they'd be worth it.

The Vivitar 2600 with swivel head looks very cool. I've never seen a swivel head flash that small. And the SB-20 looks great as well with that tilting reflector. How heavy are they? The SB-20 looks a bit "chunky", as does the Olympos T-32?

Speaking of remote triggering, is this doable with Leicas and if so which triggers work with older flashes?

I've also looked into flash brackets. There's the CTOOM but it only tilts sideways. Is there some simple ballhead solution perhaps?

Thanks again for your help
Philip
 
"The Vivitar 2600 with swivel head looks very cool. I've never seen a swivel head flash that small."

It is actually the 2800-D I can never remember which flash is which. The 2600 is a fixed head. The 2800-D does not swivel just tilt. At 100 ISO one auto setting is f-4 and the other is f-2. I recently used it on auto in open shade with a mirrorless digital and the setting where very accurate. It is small which makes it great for a small camera. My other main flash is the Minolta 320x; it is much more powerful, it is much heavier and bigger.
 
For bracket solutions there is a thread on LUF where a member devised a tilting option for the SF-24d for use on his M9. Several different bracket manufactures were mentioned but if you want something simple just to move the flash from the top of the camera, there are less expensive options. Unlike more advanced TTL systems, I believe Leica simply shuts off the flash when enough light had reached the sensor. I have not noticed any pre flash when using the SF-24d or any of TTL capable Metz 54 MZ flashes I've used with the M6 TTL. When used off camera, a Nikon SC-28 sync cord will send the TTL signal, preserving TTL functionality. As for the small Leica flash: the SF-20 was introduced as a companion to the M6 TTL offering a guide number of about 80. When attached to the M6 TTL, the ISO will be set automatically and in TTL mode a small lighting bolt in the viewfinder will confirm proper exposure by flashing. The SF-24d adds a bit more power but is designed to work with digital cameras. You can use either but digital Leica users need to use the SF-24d. If you move the flash off camera to a bracket, there is a world of different units out there. The venerable Vivitar 283 or any number of other offerings. The little Nikon or Vivitar flashes offer a lot for not much money but do be careful of trigger voltage. It won't be a problem with the M4 and may not be a problem with the M6 TTL but a Wein Safe Sync is a good investment. Good luck on this adventure.
 
Get one with low enough trigger voltage so as to not damage camera electronics.

Or use Wein Safe Sync which acts as a relay and keeps flash from connecting directly with camera.

Buy a Leica flash. I use Nikon SB 010 in auto mode, not TTL , on Leica. I find very little difference between TTL and Auto when used on the Nikons. They work nicely for off camera bounced into umbrellas. You need SB 27 connector chord.

They also work manual down to 1/128 power.

Frankly M cameras are not the best for creative flash. Best used for a bit of fill only.
 
Thank you for the clarification and for describing the 2800-D's functions. I meant tilt but for some reason wrote swivel. Need more coffee. I'm wondering if those Auto settings won't be a bit limiting though.

charjohncarter said:
"The Vivitar 2600 with swivel head looks very cool. I've never seen a swivel head flash that small."

It is actually the 2800-D I can never remember which flash is which. The 2600 is a fixed head. The 2800-D does not swivel just tilt. At 100 ISO one auto setting is f-4 and the other is f-2. I recently used it on auto in open shade with a mirrorless digital and the setting where very accurate. It is small which makes it great for a small camera. My other main flash is the Minolta 320x; it is much more powerful, it is much heavier and bigger.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this info. I'll search for that LUF thread.

Thinking a bit freely here, it would be great to have one of those flexible but sturdy spiral-looking things (often found on lamps; no idea what they're called) attached to a baseplate with tripod screw. That would give great freedom to tilt the flash in all directions (a bit like this one but shorter). Perhaps I could even build one, hmm.

I had read at Dante Stella's site and also here, I think, that the SF24D does pre-flash though it's not as close to the main flash as other manufacturers' flashes.

About the sync cord, is it the SC-28 or the SC-17 that's needed for TTL functionality?

madNbad said:
For bracket solutions there is a thread on LUF where a member devised a tilting option for the SF-24d for use on his M9. Several different bracket manufactures were mentioned but if you want something simple just to move the flash from the top of the camera, there are less expensive options. Unlike more advanced TTL systems, I believe Leica simply shuts off the flash when enough light had reached the sensor. I have not noticed any pre flash when using the SF-24d or any of TTL capable Metz 54 MZ flashes I've used with the M6 TTL. When used off camera, a Nikon SC-28 sync cord will send the TTL signal, preserving TTL functionality. As for the small Leica flash: the SF-20 was introduced as a companion to the M6 TTL offering a guide number of about 80. When attached to the M6 TTL, the ISO will be set automatically and in TTL mode a small lighting bolt in the viewfinder will confirm proper exposure by flashing. The SF-24d adds a bit more power but is designed to work with digital cameras. You can use either but digital Leica users need to use the SF-24d. If you move the flash off camera to a bracket, there is a world of different units out there. The venerable Vivitar 283 or any number of other offerings. The little Nikon or Vivitar flashes offer a lot for not much money but do be careful of trigger voltage. It won't be a problem with the M4 and may not be a problem with the M6 TTL but a Wein Safe Sync is a good investment. Good luck on this adventure.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ronald. I'm not able to find the Safe Sync here in Europe unfortunately.

Ronald M said:
Get one with low enough trigger voltage so as to not damage camera electronics.

Or use Wein Safe Sync which acts as a relay and keeps flash from connecting directly with camera.

Buy a Leica flash. I use Nikon SB 010 in auto mode, not TTL , on Leica. I find very little difference between TTL and Auto when used on the Nikons. They work nicely for off camera bounced into umbrellas. You need SB 27 connector chord.

They also work manual down to 1/128 power.

Frankly M cameras are not the best for creative flash. Best used for a bit of fill only.
Click to expand...
 
I use a SC-28. There are earlier versions, SC-17 is one or there are plenty of cords from secondary sources but SC-28 has a locking knob for securing the transmitter to the hot shoe. Either one will work.
 
"I'm wondering if those Auto settings won't be a bit limiting though." Yes, they are; ISO 100 the GN is 56. On the other flash I mentioned the Minolta 320x: it has three auto settings @ ISO 100; f-2.8, f-5.6, and f-11. But shooting in bright sun and trying to get rid of face shadows, if you are using 100 ISO, you will have to shoot 1/125 (camera synch) at f-16 so you could use either f-5.6 or f-11 depending on the amount of fill you want. Or you can fine tune with the power level to anything on manual.

I usually take my 2800-D for events like parties and use it on the f-4 and shoot ambient with the camera @ 1/125-f-16 which give very little fill but some. I will also bring the Minolta 320x for brighter scenes.

I find that trying to adjust these levels on the run is difficult, so which ever I use I put it on auto and set the ambient and forget about the math.

I've use TTL flash units and I find that they are really brainless but they get fooled exactly the same as auto mode on my other flashes.
 
Thank you, I didn't know about the locking knob. That sounds practical actually.

madNbad said:
I use a SC-28. There are earlier versions, SC-17 is one or there are plenty of cords from secondary sources but SC-28 has a locking knob for securing the transmitter to the hot shoe. Either one will work.
Click to expand...
 
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