graywolf
Well-known
No idea where in the world you are located, so it is kind of hard to make firm recommendations pricewise.
$200US ought to buy you a recently serviced non-rf camera with a decent lens. It also ought to buy you one of the uncouple-rf cameras, but the camera will probably need at least a CLA. Unless you are lucky the only coupled-rf camera that will buy is and Iskra. An Iskra in good condition is a really nice camera. You will see other coupled-rf in that price range, but they will usually only be good as parts mules. Besides that coupled-rf cameras are usually heavy and bulky.
Do you really need a rangefinder? Actually, you only need one if you shot a lot of close up (less than 10 feet) at wider f/stops (f/8 or less). Otherwise an estimate and a DOF table will get most shots in focus.
Shutters. If you need the 1/400 or faster shutter speed you need a top of the line shutter. Luckily you do not usually need that unless you are shooting sports or a film too fast for the lighting. Mostly I find shutters without the slow speeds useless for about 1/2 my tripod work. If you only shoot handheld the slow speeds are not needed either.
Lens: In the old days the limitation was the film not the lens except on the very cheapest cameras. Anything you find on the type of cameras we are talking about is probably better than you expect, so the choice of lens is not too important. Anything in good condition with a f/4.5 or faster is going to be good enough for most work.
Uncoupled-rf: The trick with these cameras is to preset the focus, then move the camera until the rf shows in foclus. With experience you will find that that is fast and accurate.
Non-rf: The trick with these is to learn about "zone focus" and to practice estimating distance. Once you do that, you will find that you get about as many in focus shots as you do with the rf cameras.
Most of the non-rf and uncoupled-rf cameras will fit in your pants pocket. None of the coupled-rf cameras I have handled will fit in anything smaller than a largish coat pocket, so you will have to carry them over your shoulder with a strap in the summer; that means the camera will need to have strap lugs or a decent condition ever ready case.
When it comes down too which particular camera, that is really a personal choice. With the info above you can decide if what you are looking at will work for you, beyond that it is a case of do you like the look and feel of the camera.
$200US ought to buy you a recently serviced non-rf camera with a decent lens. It also ought to buy you one of the uncouple-rf cameras, but the camera will probably need at least a CLA. Unless you are lucky the only coupled-rf camera that will buy is and Iskra. An Iskra in good condition is a really nice camera. You will see other coupled-rf in that price range, but they will usually only be good as parts mules. Besides that coupled-rf cameras are usually heavy and bulky.
Do you really need a rangefinder? Actually, you only need one if you shot a lot of close up (less than 10 feet) at wider f/stops (f/8 or less). Otherwise an estimate and a DOF table will get most shots in focus.
Shutters. If you need the 1/400 or faster shutter speed you need a top of the line shutter. Luckily you do not usually need that unless you are shooting sports or a film too fast for the lighting. Mostly I find shutters without the slow speeds useless for about 1/2 my tripod work. If you only shoot handheld the slow speeds are not needed either.
Lens: In the old days the limitation was the film not the lens except on the very cheapest cameras. Anything you find on the type of cameras we are talking about is probably better than you expect, so the choice of lens is not too important. Anything in good condition with a f/4.5 or faster is going to be good enough for most work.
Uncoupled-rf: The trick with these cameras is to preset the focus, then move the camera until the rf shows in foclus. With experience you will find that that is fast and accurate.
Non-rf: The trick with these is to learn about "zone focus" and to practice estimating distance. Once you do that, you will find that you get about as many in focus shots as you do with the rf cameras.
Most of the non-rf and uncoupled-rf cameras will fit in your pants pocket. None of the coupled-rf cameras I have handled will fit in anything smaller than a largish coat pocket, so you will have to carry them over your shoulder with a strap in the summer; that means the camera will need to have strap lugs or a decent condition ever ready case.
When it comes down too which particular camera, that is really a personal choice. With the info above you can decide if what you are looking at will work for you, beyond that it is a case of do you like the look and feel of the camera.
SteveM
Established
Both of my folders (Ercona II and Franka Solida IIIe) were less than $200, and neither needed a CLA. The Franka Solida is a 6x6 and is quite a bit smaller than the Ercona, which is 6x9. Weight is not that much different, but the 6x6 folder is surprisingly compact if space is an issue. Other factors: a rangefinder is useful for close up photos but it’s easy enough to guess distance accurately enough in most cases. The Ercona has a top shutter speed of 1/250th second, which might appear limiting but in practice I’ve not found it to be. The most significant difference is lens quality. The Ercona has a very nice Tessar lens, which on 6x9 produces amazingly detailed and sharp negatives. The 3 element Radionar on the Franka Solida is good but produces that classic dreamy lower contrast look even though it is coated like the Tessar. Of the two, I prefer to use the Ercona because of the better lens.
Steve
Steve
Rodchenko
Olympian
If I can piggy back on this thread, I'd like to ask about folders.
I love folding cameras, and my favourite 35mm is the Minox. I have had an Ikonta in the past, and currently own a Nettar, but neither are rangefinders. I much prefer the 645 format, which my Ikonta had, to the 6x6 of my Nettar 518, beautiful camera though it is. I had three TLRs in the past, too, so I think I've given the square format a chance, but I have to admit I'm no good at composing for it.
My ideal would be the Fuji GS645 folding (I used to have a GS645S, which was wonderful to use), but that's beyond my budget.
My understanding from the web is that I should be looking for a Super Ikonta A or a Moskva, but I am wondering if there are any others I should be looking out for?
In summary: 645 folder with rangefinder (coupled or uncoupled is fine) for regular use on a budget. I know that might be challenging, but I know there's a lot of knowledge hereabouts.
I love folding cameras, and my favourite 35mm is the Minox. I have had an Ikonta in the past, and currently own a Nettar, but neither are rangefinders. I much prefer the 645 format, which my Ikonta had, to the 6x6 of my Nettar 518, beautiful camera though it is. I had three TLRs in the past, too, so I think I've given the square format a chance, but I have to admit I'm no good at composing for it.
My ideal would be the Fuji GS645 folding (I used to have a GS645S, which was wonderful to use), but that's beyond my budget.
My understanding from the web is that I should be looking for a Super Ikonta A or a Moskva, but I am wondering if there are any others I should be looking out for?
In summary: 645 folder with rangefinder (coupled or uncoupled is fine) for regular use on a budget. I know that might be challenging, but I know there's a lot of knowledge hereabouts.
ZeissFan
Veteran
Certain Zeiss Ikon and Voigtlander folders allow for the use of a mask in the film chamber that converts the 6x9 cameras into 6x4.5 format.
There also is an uncommon Kodak (Nagel) Duo 620 with a rangefinder. It is a 620 camera (obviously). The model II Duo 620 doesn't have a rangefinder and is an excellent camera. I've never paid more than $40 for one of these.
I own a lot of folders and have never paid more than $200 for any of them. Last summer, I bought six folding cameras for $300. The group included:
- Late model Super Ikonta 531/2 with a coated Tessar
- Certo Six
- Bessa I 6x9 with a coated Skopar
- Agfa Super Isolette
- Agfa Isolette III with a coated Solinar and leather bellows
- Baldax (6x6) with a Schneider Radionar
This was the best deal that I've ever encountered in 13 years of buying cameras.
There also is an uncommon Kodak (Nagel) Duo 620 with a rangefinder. It is a 620 camera (obviously). The model II Duo 620 doesn't have a rangefinder and is an excellent camera. I've never paid more than $40 for one of these.
I own a lot of folders and have never paid more than $200 for any of them. Last summer, I bought six folding cameras for $300. The group included:
- Late model Super Ikonta 531/2 with a coated Tessar
- Certo Six
- Bessa I 6x9 with a coated Skopar
- Agfa Super Isolette
- Agfa Isolette III with a coated Solinar and leather bellows
- Baldax (6x6) with a Schneider Radionar
This was the best deal that I've ever encountered in 13 years of buying cameras.
Rodchenko
Olympian
That was a very good deal!
I hadn't considered cameras with masks. That should open up the field a bit.
I hadn't considered cameras with masks. That should open up the field a bit.
jnoir
Well-known
Cameras with mask aside, these are the 6x4.5-only folders that I have kept over the years:
- Welta Weltur, 4-element single coated lens, CRF and unit focusing
- Super Ikonta A (there were several models, mine is post-war), 3- or 4-element single or multicoated lens, CRF and front cell focusing
Probably over your requirements - tend to be pricey - but worth mention:
- Ensign Auto-Range 16-20, 4-element multicoated lens, CRF with front cell focusing
- Minolta Auto Semi (actually it is "heavily inspired" on the Weltur) 4-element non- or single coated lens, CRF with unit focusing
Pioneer
Veteran
Over the past few years I have gone through a lot of folders and have settled in on two of them that I personally like. Depending on whether I am in the mood for 6x6 or 6x9 I now shoot an Agfa Super Isolette (square) or an Agfa Billy Record III (rectangle.) Both were cleaned up and set right by Certo6 and I highly recommend him. He seems to be a little pricey but once you have gone the other route you realize his services are certainly worth every penny.
I also shoot a very nice little Super Regent, fixed lens rangefinder, that folds up and literally fits in my pants pocket on my hikes, but that is a 35mm folder so is outside your interest.
Too many cameras, not enough time!
I also shoot a very nice little Super Regent, fixed lens rangefinder, that folds up and literally fits in my pants pocket on my hikes, but that is a 35mm folder so is outside your interest.
Too many cameras, not enough time!
ibcrewin
Ah looky looky
I bought an ansco viking that has leaky bellows for $10..I wrapped the bellows in light tight plastic (photo paper bag) and shot with it anyway.. I'll post some pics on Monday.
Rodchenko
Olympian
Oooh, that Ensign is a good looking camera! I may have to save up for a bit and get one.
I got the first couple of rolls back from the Nettar. Some decent shots, but it confimed that I don't do square. Just a failing on my part, I suppose. Perhaps, though, I should persevere for a bit...
Rodchenko
Olympian
Since I'm a Minox lover, that may be off topic for this thread, but not outside my interests at all. Nice little camera. Reminds me of an Agfa I saw once (I think at Jessops Photographica when that was still open)
archeophoto
I love 1950's quality
+1 for the Zeiss Nettar. I bought a 6x6 Nettar with Novar lens for $10 on Ebay. Stopped down the Novar lens is every bit as sharp as a Tessar. Wonderful camera! If you are on a budget, you can't do better.
vidgamer
Established
It so happens that a Minolta Semi (II?) fell into my hands recently. It has a couple of flaws, so I was considering trying to find another folder to try. (The shutter speed is off, lower speeds don't work at all, and the viewfinder won't stay down, I guess are the worst problems. It's actually in pretty good condition. If I can correctly guess as to the actual shutter speed, I can kind of make use of it.) Maybe I should try to make do with what I have, but what's the fun in that?
jnoir
Well-known
That sounds pretty much like what happens to one of my Konica Semi Pearl... I ended up buying a second camera and I always intend to make one fully working Semi Pearl out of the two, but it seems that I always have better things to do (like, 6x4.5 is not a format I really use much and have better cameras around in working order...)
A cheap shutter speed tester should not set you back more than 30 dollars or so, and you'd get a rough idea of the actual speeds. A Romanian guy used to sell them through the *bay, if you don't want to mess with the actual components and soldering and DIY.
A cheap shutter speed tester should not set you back more than 30 dollars or so, and you'd get a rough idea of the actual speeds. A Romanian guy used to sell them through the *bay, if you don't want to mess with the actual components and soldering and DIY.
ibcrewin
Ah looky looky
Alright.. So.. My ansco viking had pinholes in the bellows so I really wasn't using it. I had looked into getting new bellows a while back but that proved difficult or it cost too much for such a cheap camera. So I was tooling around the house one day and it occured to me that I could wrap the bellows in lightproof plastic (the plastice paper comes in), and bam, I had a MF folder(ish since it doesn't actually fold with the plastic).
It's not pretty..
but it seems to work!
It's not pretty..
but it seems to work!
ZeissFan
Veteran
Alright.. So.. My ansco viking had pinholes in the bellows so I really wasn't using it. I had looked into getting new bellows a while back but that proved difficult or it cost too much for such a cheap camera. So I was tooling around the house one day and it occured to me that I could wrap the bellows in lightproof plastic (the plastice paper comes in), and bam, I had a MF folder(ish since it doesn't actually fold with the plastic).
It's not pretty..
but it seems to work!
Oh, cool. You made a lens cone -- a bit like those that were used for Omega D enlargers.
I like the thinking and how you pulled it off!
vidgamer
Established
I wasn't thinking of getting a 2nd Minolta, like to swap parts or anything. The shutter on this one just needs servicing, but it doesn't seem worth it. I was thinking of getting something different just because I'm curious as to what else is there, etc.
What format do you prefer? 6x6?
I videotaped the shutter to get an idea. (I estimated that the speeds were about 1/3 what they should be, but even that only seems reliable at the higher speeds.) I might look into the shutter tester, but I dunno.....
jnoir
Well-known
I would say so, yes. Actually I am not that fussy about the format, but I find 6x4.5 a wee bit too small for my liking. Sometimes the vertical composition of the format on old folders may help, but usually I'd rather use 6x6 or 6x9 and crop when in the darkroom. Lately I find that I use my M7II a lot - probably the fact that it is an expensive piece of gear makes one to try to justify the purchase to oneself by using it as frequently as possible... However it is, I also like 6x7. WTH, medium format is gorgeous.
The tester is kind of "buy once, use forever", since it is not designed to work with one specific camera you can test any camera or shutter you come across. It is basically a torch in front of a photocell with the shutter in the middle, connected to a tablet or computer via audio jack. You record the audio input, and when tripping the shutter the torch shines through the lens, and the photocell transfers the reading to the computer via the audio I/O. You simply have to measure the duration of the peak caused by the photocell and voilà, you know the actual speed. Doing it a dozen times and taking the average should work fine, and if you ever do a CLA on a shutter it will become quite handy.
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vegard_dino
Established
Thank you all for the reply and good information.
I have got my folder now, a Voigtlander Perkeo I, from one here on the forum.
It is just great. So compact, feels well made and looks really cool.
But, I have LOTS of questions....so I will ask them in a new tread.
I have got my folder now, a Voigtlander Perkeo I, from one here on the forum.
It is just great. So compact, feels well made and looks really cool.
But, I have LOTS of questions....so I will ask them in a new tread.
vidgamer
Established
I had looked at testers before but I guess I wanted to hurry up and get film into the folder.
I researched again, and I bought some parts for this design. It is simplified over some other designs. I need to finish this roll....
http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0044cW?start=10
I researched again, and I bought some parts for this design. It is simplified over some other designs. I need to finish this roll....
http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0044cW?start=10
vidgamer
Established
The Perkeo sounds like a great model that I might have preferred except for price. Well, this is the "folders on a budget" thread.... I guess that depends on how much of a budget!
I got myself an Agfa w/Apotar lens for super-cheap. It's in the mail. Hmm, I hope it works. ;-)
I looked up information on the various lenses. It appears that if you don't go for the most expensive high-end lenses (tessar, solinar, etc.), you can sometimes get a good deal on folders.
I was going to say that if you don't get one with a rangefinder it'll be cheaper, but I saw a Mess Ikonta go for $40 on fleaBay. Was tempted, but I don't need a 3rd folder. Well, not yet anyway. ;-) I'm curious to find out if there's a difference between the ones that I have...
I got myself an Agfa w/Apotar lens for super-cheap. It's in the mail. Hmm, I hope it works. ;-)
I looked up information on the various lenses. It appears that if you don't go for the most expensive high-end lenses (tessar, solinar, etc.), you can sometimes get a good deal on folders.
I was going to say that if you don't get one with a rangefinder it'll be cheaper, but I saw a Mess Ikonta go for $40 on fleaBay. Was tempted, but I don't need a 3rd folder. Well, not yet anyway. ;-) I'm curious to find out if there's a difference between the ones that I have...