ZeissFan
Veteran
EBay has become like most towns in Pennsylvania. That is, they take a small piece of you on every turn.
They've become too big for their own good. They can't police themselves, and there are too many people willing to cheat you.
I rarely sell anything expensive on eBay, and I hate it when a newcomer buys something from me, because they're expecting a "like new" camera when in fact it's 15, 20, 30 years old -- sometimes even older.
I still buy, but try to avoid selling. This is a better board.
They've become too big for their own good. They can't police themselves, and there are too many people willing to cheat you.
I rarely sell anything expensive on eBay, and I hate it when a newcomer buys something from me, because they're expecting a "like new" camera when in fact it's 15, 20, 30 years old -- sometimes even older.
I still buy, but try to avoid selling. This is a better board.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Its not fleabay that lacks ethics, its many of the buyers and sellers. Been down that alley. What did you sell and where?
acheyj
Well-known
Well Brian you have just confirmed my thoughts about selling stuff on 'bay.
I have quite a little pile of film stuff I no longer use much but looks like I get to keep it for my heirs to put in the dumpster!. I sold all my gear in the late sixties to rear my family etc (full leica + leica darkroom mf & lf stuff) got back into the game late 90's then digital got me in a weak moment.
Lotsa OM stuff Mamiya MF old collectables inc Bertram + enlargers and darkroom, not to mention the bloody FSU stuff inc Kiev no thanks to Ruben BTW where the hell is he ?.
Ok got that off my chest, feel better. Maybe send the OM stuff to Keith to photograph his burka ladies.
ron (grumpy old fool).
River Dog
Always looking
eBay is great for selling, I have sold thousands of dollars worth of kit on there. You did the right thing in refunding the buyer (can't blame them getting jittery) and a little bit of negative feedback is no biggie - especially if you politely explain in your response to their feedback. These things happen.
My partner successfully overturned some negative feedback that a clothing item "smelled funny" - turned out the buyer was complaining about the detergent in which it had been freshly washed.
My partner successfully overturned some negative feedback that a clothing item "smelled funny" - turned out the buyer was complaining about the detergent in which it had been freshly washed.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
The arguments in favor of selling here on RFF as opposed to eBay are good. After all, we are a more tightly knit, and smaller community than eBay. We are more likely to know each other than are eBay members. There is a counter-argument, though.
The smaller membership in RFF works not only for us, but also against us. Auctions on the big site simply have a larger audience, and therefore a better chance of selling; as well as bringing in a higher price. Also (and this is big for me) the RFF thumbnails only stay on the front page for a matter of hours. After that, one mouse-click will bring all recent items back into visibility for several days. Following that, one can browse or search through older listings for a while--longer than typical eBay auctions, actually. Still, I seldom poke through the listings once they are more than a few days old. I don't know why. I'm more likely to do an eBay search if I want something. Habit, maybe? Wider selection?
I wonder if anyone else has this mind-set? Maybe I should make it a point to offer my next item or two here.
The smaller membership in RFF works not only for us, but also against us. Auctions on the big site simply have a larger audience, and therefore a better chance of selling; as well as bringing in a higher price. Also (and this is big for me) the RFF thumbnails only stay on the front page for a matter of hours. After that, one mouse-click will bring all recent items back into visibility for several days. Following that, one can browse or search through older listings for a while--longer than typical eBay auctions, actually. Still, I seldom poke through the listings once they are more than a few days old. I don't know why. I'm more likely to do an eBay search if I want something. Habit, maybe? Wider selection?
I wonder if anyone else has this mind-set? Maybe I should make it a point to offer my next item or two here.
robklurfield
eclipse
Years ago when I did sell tons of high-end wristwatches on eBay, I did have a couple of good experiences with Square Trade removing unwarranted negative feedbacks. Nevertheless, I am glad that I am not in that business any longer.
I was only ripped off once where I wasn't made whole by PayPal and, at $5,100, it hurt enough that I stopped selling on eBay and closed my business. The US Attorney, after convicting the thief, was kind enough to extract a portion of the restitution from him over a period of about two years (I think they sent me three checks totally maybe $1800 or $2000). About a two years ago they sent me a letter announcing that the thief had been released from prison and was in a halfway house. Then, about six months after that, the US Atty sent another letter warning that the culprit had escaped the halfway house. Given that this guy had ripped off at least 60-70 people I was able to identify, I'm not overly concerned as I guess he has plenty of others to seek revenge on for putting him where he belongs. The means of his fraud was home-made bank treasurer's checks that were so good, that they fooled my bank for more than a month.
PayPal's sellers' protection program did reimburse me in another instance of fraud for about $1800 once.
The stress of dealing with individual items that expensive finally drove me over the edge (I had numerous five-figure eBay transactions over the years).
Now, I'm happy to be an occasional buyer and rarely a seller. I only try to sell things on eBay that I could afford to suffer a total loss on without tears. And, it's only for personal use. No more business transactions there for me.
I've bought many things on eBay with only a few minor disappointments.
I once sold a 31-foot sailboat on eBay. A long story to be shared another. I'll just say that it was an adventure I wouldn't ever want to repeat.
I was only ripped off once where I wasn't made whole by PayPal and, at $5,100, it hurt enough that I stopped selling on eBay and closed my business. The US Attorney, after convicting the thief, was kind enough to extract a portion of the restitution from him over a period of about two years (I think they sent me three checks totally maybe $1800 or $2000). About a two years ago they sent me a letter announcing that the thief had been released from prison and was in a halfway house. Then, about six months after that, the US Atty sent another letter warning that the culprit had escaped the halfway house. Given that this guy had ripped off at least 60-70 people I was able to identify, I'm not overly concerned as I guess he has plenty of others to seek revenge on for putting him where he belongs. The means of his fraud was home-made bank treasurer's checks that were so good, that they fooled my bank for more than a month.
PayPal's sellers' protection program did reimburse me in another instance of fraud for about $1800 once.
The stress of dealing with individual items that expensive finally drove me over the edge (I had numerous five-figure eBay transactions over the years).
Now, I'm happy to be an occasional buyer and rarely a seller. I only try to sell things on eBay that I could afford to suffer a total loss on without tears. And, it's only for personal use. No more business transactions there for me.
I've bought many things on eBay with only a few minor disappointments.
I once sold a 31-foot sailboat on eBay. A long story to be shared another. I'll just say that it was an adventure I wouldn't ever want to repeat.
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River Dog
Always looking
Sheesh, what was the postage like on that? Thanks for your experiences.
JohnTF
Veteran
I too have heard crazy stuff happening, one of my friends (not allowed to leave negative feedback) left positive feedback that spelled out the situation.
Another friend had a camera returned with no insurance, or registration,-- was lost and he could not refund the money as there was no way to trace anything-- buyer/ sender was understanding (something like $600 of understanding).
Fast forward a few years, the post office finds the package-- a Leica body-- and returns it with a note, it had fallen behind something. Dealer then refunds the money.
Dealing with two honest guys--
OTOH, a buyer from a forum (not this one) told me there was something wrong with a $100 camera I sold him, I said I was sorry, I had had the camera serviced, should have been OK, but I refunded the money and told him to keep the camera in case he could get it serviced. (A type of camera I have since concluded is not reliable in general)
Guy flamed me for years, using my full name-- he got the camera and his money back?
I guess you recall the bad deals much more than the normal deals between honest folks.
--- Then there is that bad battery I bought----
Glad it was about a relatively low amount of money in this case.
I am like Brian, I give away more than I sell, or I sell to a dealer, but I have lots of stuff really needing a good sale, I am not sure I am up to all the efforts to sell anything. I have been holding an M6 for a friend for 3 years. ;-)
Regards, John
Another friend had a camera returned with no insurance, or registration,-- was lost and he could not refund the money as there was no way to trace anything-- buyer/ sender was understanding (something like $600 of understanding).
Fast forward a few years, the post office finds the package-- a Leica body-- and returns it with a note, it had fallen behind something. Dealer then refunds the money.
Dealing with two honest guys--
OTOH, a buyer from a forum (not this one) told me there was something wrong with a $100 camera I sold him, I said I was sorry, I had had the camera serviced, should have been OK, but I refunded the money and told him to keep the camera in case he could get it serviced. (A type of camera I have since concluded is not reliable in general)
Guy flamed me for years, using my full name-- he got the camera and his money back?
I guess you recall the bad deals much more than the normal deals between honest folks.
--- Then there is that bad battery I bought----
Glad it was about a relatively low amount of money in this case.
I am like Brian, I give away more than I sell, or I sell to a dealer, but I have lots of stuff really needing a good sale, I am not sure I am up to all the efforts to sell anything. I have been holding an M6 for a friend for 3 years. ;-)
Regards, John
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deirdre
Well-known
In the intial post scenario, I would have waited for the USPS refund on insurance. Frankly, it sounds like a dishonest buyer.
I've never lost things as a seller, and only twice as a buyer, and this is shipping to 30-40 countries (including some with dodgy postal systems). I insure everything worth more than $50.
I've sold about 200 eBay items, bought about 500 over the years. Also done other business and no troubles to speak of.
I've never lost things as a seller, and only twice as a buyer, and this is shipping to 30-40 countries (including some with dodgy postal systems). I insure everything worth more than $50.
I've sold about 200 eBay items, bought about 500 over the years. Also done other business and no troubles to speak of.
David Murphy
Veteran
eBay has recently introduced anti-seller policies under the guise of price decreases. Of course they are actually price increases, although the mainstream media laps up their press releases often without any investigation. They continue to antagonize their sellers, except the very large ones that get special rates. Here's the real story:
http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2011/03/16/ebays-latest-bonehead-move.aspx
I only sell things there that I just need to get rid of, or that I have acquired at low or no cost for some reason, i.e. rarely. It's not worth it any more -- too bad since it was once a nice place to buy and sell.
By the way, there is an international boycott of eBay planned on April 1 (see the facebook page for this).
http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2011/03/16/ebays-latest-bonehead-move.aspx
I only sell things there that I just need to get rid of, or that I have acquired at low or no cost for some reason, i.e. rarely. It's not worth it any more -- too bad since it was once a nice place to buy and sell.
By the way, there is an international boycott of eBay planned on April 1 (see the facebook page for this).
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JohnTF
Veteran
I had a month where postal packages were stolen from my porch, for the first times in 33 years.
From the response of the Police and the Post Office, seems as if it is no big deal anymore, not deserved of much attention.
This magnifies the problems in buying through the mail.
I now have a $110 locking mailbox.
Regards, John
From the response of the Police and the Post Office, seems as if it is no big deal anymore, not deserved of much attention.
This magnifies the problems in buying through the mail.
I now have a $110 locking mailbox.
Regards, John
monochromejrnl
Well-known
Sorry to hear your ebay misery. Consider RFF or Craigslist.
For sales, I advertise on my local craigslist and transact in person for cash only... perfect track record
For sales, I advertise on my local craigslist and transact in person for cash only... perfect track record
cwcunningham
Newbie
Well, there's lots of things not to like about ebay. As a seller, even if the transaction goes ok and the buyer is happy and you got paid, there's a charge for everything.
An ebay listing fee to list the item, an ebay final transaction fee when you sell the item, a paypal fee when you get paid (which of course goes to eBay), calculated shipping never seems to calculate enough to cover all the shipping fees. At least Amazon just takes one cut of the amount, even though it's a pretty big cut.
I've quit selling much on eBay, partly because of eBay and partly because of buyer skittishness. The thing is, I do understand buyer's being afraid of getting ripped off, since I've been ripped off by three sellers on eBay. In one case I finally got half of my money back (PayPal only covered $250 at the time, so I was out the other $250), but I got nothing in the other cases. In one of them I never received the camera (it was a Canonet), but the seller had the delivery confirmation, so they closed the claim, and of course PayPal wouldn't cover it, since there was delivery confirmation. Now, keep in mind, I still never received the camera, or any money. When I checked at the Post Office (since that was the only thing I could do) they had delivered it to some other address, so it was really their responsibility, but they wouldn't do anything to get the camera or replace it, and they wouldn't give me any money since it wasn't insured (it was around $50). I could have achieved the same result by just taking $50 and throwing it in the street.
So from a buyer's perspective and a seller's perspective (unless you're part of the eBay seller elite), it's really not worth dealing with eBay except for little cheap stuff. And yet I still find myself bidding on something I have trouble finding. Ah, well. I suppose it beats getting robbed or raped or killed by the other buyer or seller you meet on Craigslist.
Hey! There's something in favor of eBay, at least getting ripped off there doesn't occur at knife or gun point like on Craigslist! See you can find silver a lining if you look hard enough!
An ebay listing fee to list the item, an ebay final transaction fee when you sell the item, a paypal fee when you get paid (which of course goes to eBay), calculated shipping never seems to calculate enough to cover all the shipping fees. At least Amazon just takes one cut of the amount, even though it's a pretty big cut.
I've quit selling much on eBay, partly because of eBay and partly because of buyer skittishness. The thing is, I do understand buyer's being afraid of getting ripped off, since I've been ripped off by three sellers on eBay. In one case I finally got half of my money back (PayPal only covered $250 at the time, so I was out the other $250), but I got nothing in the other cases. In one of them I never received the camera (it was a Canonet), but the seller had the delivery confirmation, so they closed the claim, and of course PayPal wouldn't cover it, since there was delivery confirmation. Now, keep in mind, I still never received the camera, or any money. When I checked at the Post Office (since that was the only thing I could do) they had delivered it to some other address, so it was really their responsibility, but they wouldn't do anything to get the camera or replace it, and they wouldn't give me any money since it wasn't insured (it was around $50). I could have achieved the same result by just taking $50 and throwing it in the street.
So from a buyer's perspective and a seller's perspective (unless you're part of the eBay seller elite), it's really not worth dealing with eBay except for little cheap stuff. And yet I still find myself bidding on something I have trouble finding. Ah, well. I suppose it beats getting robbed or raped or killed by the other buyer or seller you meet on Craigslist.
Hey! There's something in favor of eBay, at least getting ripped off there doesn't occur at knife or gun point like on Craigslist! See you can find silver a lining if you look hard enough!
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anthony_semone
Established
You all know the ****e these guys pull and you know about it in advance. If you regard it as "just the cost of doing business," then don't bleat and moan about getting screwed. If it's a problem for you, why not just quit f***ing with eBay and PayPal? I have and I've still purchased and sold everything I've wanted. Pizzon'em. +2 to monochromejrnl
tony
tony
MC JC86
Negative Nancy.
uhoh7
Veteran
495 positive transactions, and one bad one because you did not get a signature on delivery.
I'm not sure what there is to complain about. That is a pretty high success rate, and the problem was avoidable.
As others stated above, so he writes a negative--you write an answer. Above 98%, you are fine.
Ebay is a big giant company--I never heard of one that wasn't unreasonable in one respect or another.
Nobody's perfect.
I do find that RFF is more pleasant to buy at than EBAY, for sure. The most annoying thing to me is being outbid at the last second, hehe. You never count on winning anything. It's days before you know, once you've seen the lens.
I was shocked last night to come home and find nobody outbid me on a 50mm CV 1.1 at 100 below average. Now it has to get here--uhoh.
Brian Puccio
Well-known
Can I ask if eBay is so bad, what sorts of promises RFF makes me if I were to pay the fee to sell here?
MC JC86
Negative Nancy.
enasniearth
Well-known
ebay
ebay
for a long time they were the only game in town .
since puchaseing paypal and requireing you accept paypal , suprise another 3-4 % on top of the 9% ebay and listing fee . this is big bussiness .
they are a bussiness and will take any steps to maximize profit .
its sad , there are so many scams everywhere now .
in reality many of the ebay items never sell and very few are of any interest .
so they keep getting more agressive in their policys to protect the bottom line .
its kinda like a big online garage sale now .
ebay
for a long time they were the only game in town .
since puchaseing paypal and requireing you accept paypal , suprise another 3-4 % on top of the 9% ebay and listing fee . this is big bussiness .
they are a bussiness and will take any steps to maximize profit .
its sad , there are so many scams everywhere now .
in reality many of the ebay items never sell and very few are of any interest .
so they keep getting more agressive in their policys to protect the bottom line .
its kinda like a big online garage sale now .
MC JC86
Negative Nancy.
While there are a lot of items people regularly list for a fixed price that is way too high, this statement just simply isn't true.