A pretty nice bag for a sensible price

loquax ludens said:
It's a sensible price because it is widely available for that price, in competition with goods of similar manufacture. Goods don't sell for a loss, excepting extraordinary circumstances. You don't know whether or what corners were cut and how. On a forum like this, without investing energy to research fully, you can only surmise. Any person could choose to investigate further, demand answers from the manufacturer, make assumptions based on his own experience or on the hearsay of others, and choose whether or not to purchase based on conscience with regard to discovery or belief, or on the simple economics of the deal, or based on desire.

The concept of "fair trade" is laudable, but no one owes anyone anything that they do not contract for or wish to give.
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Fair enough, but as Frances covers bags for Shutterbug at trade shows, and as we spend quite a lot of time talking to bag manufacturers, from top-end to OEM, I probably have a better idea than most of what it costs to make a decent bag. There's no doubt that mark-ups can be VERY big, but not big enough, from what I know (which is quite a lot) to make a good bag at $15 retail without something unusual going on.

As for 'no one owes anyone anything that they do not contract for or wish to give', I'm not sure that you mean. Surely it cannot be that exploitation and corner cutting are unknown, or that exploitation is acceptable.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Fair enough, but as Frances covers bags for Shutterbug at trade shows, and as we spend quite a lot of time talking to bag manufacturers, from top-end to OEM, I probably have a better idea than most of what it costs to make a decent bag. There's no doubt that mark-ups can be VERY big, but not big enough, from what I know (which is quite a lot) to make a good bag at $15 retail without something unusual going on.

As for 'no one owes anyone anything that they do not contract for or wish to give', I'm not sure that you mean. Surely it cannot be that exploitation and corner cutting are unknown, or that exploitation is acceptable.

Cheers,

R.
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I have to agree with Roger on this. "No one owes anyone anything ..." statement is pretty callous, and yes on a purely capitalistic slash everyone has equal bargaining power, then that does seem most fair. But as anyone surely knows, child labor and sweat shops are 21st century slavery. It's not like those forced into it are too lazy, ignorant or dumb to negotiate higher wages. I think it is way oversimplified and mostly wrong to say otherwise.

The only way I could see $15 is massive economies of scale. I defer to Roger who has the actual experience, but this bag does not seem that abundant. To be fair though, maybe these are just being closed out for a loss.
 
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Looks like a decent little bag. I have a Scaramanga leather satchel that fits a Domke 3-cell insert well, but this might be just the ticket for my OM-4, 28/3.5, 35/2.8 and 50/1.4 kit. Couple rolls of film and a notebook and I'm good for the day!

In regards to the prices and arguments about why they're so cheap:
a) Amazon typically is at least 25% cheaper on most items than other resellers. And it's not uncommon for them to be way cheaper than the manufacturer's website itself.

b) If you're worried about "underpaid, 21st century slaves" then I suggest you throw out every garment, television, camera and electronic item you own because they were ALL made in Indonesia, Korea, Japan, China, Singapore, India, Botswana, etc (except for Leica, everyone knows they were made in Germany, haha!). You name it, they made it and in assuredly less-than-desirable conditions.

So, buy American and spend the extra money. Or save a few bucks and get what you want at a savings.

In regards to that bag, I just double-checked and it gets some spotty reviews on Amazon. Have any of you guys that own it had any problems with the bag tearing or coming loose at seams, etc.?
 
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matthewm said:
Looks like a decent little bag. I have a Scaramanga leather satchel that fits a Domke 3-cell insert well, but this might be just the ticket for my OM-4, 28/3.5, 35/2.8 and 50/1.4 kit. Couple rolls of film and a notebook and I'm good for the day!

In regards to the prices and arguments about why they're so cheap:
a) Amazon typically is at least 25% cheaper on most items than other resellers. And it's not uncommon for them to be way cheaper than the manufacturer's website itself.

b) If you're worried about "underpaid, 21st century slaves" then I suggest you throw out every garment, television, camera and electronic item you own because they were ALL made in Indonesia, Korea, Japan, China, Singapore, India, Botswana, etc (except for Leica, everyone knows they were made in Germany, haha!). You name it, they made it and in assuredly less-than-desirable conditions.

So, buy American and spend the extra money. Or save a few bucks and get what you want at a savings.

In regards to that bag, I just double-checked and it gets some spotty reviews on Amazon. Have any of you guys that own it had any problems with the bag tearing or coming loose at seams, etc.?
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You are, I think, conflating low wages (in a poor country) with slave wages (from an unscrupulous employer im any country).

Cheers,

R.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
You are, I think, conflating low wages (in a poor country) with slave wages (from an unscrupulous employer im any country).

Cheers,

R.
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I was being sarcastic and essentially saying that it's strange to just assume that a bag is only $15 because some poor kid is being paid with a bowl of rice for a day's work after his boss has beat him senselessly for only making 126 bags that day and not meeting his quota of 230.

It's like this: Buy the bag, or don't, but I think it's a little foolish to completely change the course of a thread about a decent bag because someone assumes that the bag was made by slaves or child-laborers, etc.

I'm assuming it's that low in price because they're trying to get rid of them to make room for new inventory or because they really are made cheaply and it will fall apart in 3 months (some of the Amazon reviews complained about items not staying in the bag and the bag ripping after a short time).
 
matthewm said:
I was being sarcastic and essentially saying that it's strange to just assume that a bag is only $15 because some poor kid is being paid with a bowl of rice for a day's work after his boss has beat him senselessly for only making 126 bags that day and not meeting his quota of 230.

It's like this: Buy the bag, or don't, but I think it's a little foolish to completely change the course of a thread about a decent bag because someone assumes that the bag was made by slaves or child-laborers, etc.

I'm assuming it's that low in price because they're trying to get rid of them to make room for new inventory or because they really are made cheaply and it will fall apart in 3 months (some of the Amazon reviews complained about items not staying in the bag and the bag ripping after a short time).
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It's the phrase 'sensible price' I was questioning. This is, frankly, a cheap bag. Exactly why it is cheap is another matter: government surplus and bankrupt stock were two I mentioned, and your suggestion of stock clearance is another possibility. I also mentioned 'red hot needles and burning thread', i.e. being put together is a slapdash manner, regardless of what the workers are paid.

The point is, it's not 'sensible', as you yourself admit. It's cheap. I don't see how this is changing the course of a thread.

Cheers,

R.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
It's the phrase 'reasonable price' I was questioning. This is, frankly, a cheap bag. Exactly why it is cheap is another matter: government surplus and bankrupt stock were two I mentioned, and your suggestion of stock clearance is another possibility. I also mentioned 'red hot needles and burning thread', i.e. being put together is a slapdash manner, regardless of what the workers are paid.

The point is, it's not 'reasonable', as you yourself admit. It's cheap. I don't see how this is changing the course of a thread.

Cheers,

R.
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Ah, understood. I think there was a miscommunication. Perhaps I took some of these messages too literally.

I do think that this is a cheap bag and that is why it is being sold as such. And probably has more to do with them trying to get rid of them. Perhaps to make room for a new model with some better features?

For $6 I'm tempted to get one to see how it is... Then again if my OM kit falls off my shoulder because the strap was haphazardly sewn on, I'm going to be mad...

On second thought, I'll stick to my regular bag... I do like the looks of this one though.
 
matthewm said:
Ah, understood. I think there was a miscommunication. Perhaps I took some of these messages too literally.

I do think that this is a cheap bag and that is why it is being sold as such. And probably has more to do with them trying to get rid of them. Perhaps to make room for a new model with some better features?

For $6 I'm tempted to get one to see how it is... Then again if my OM kit falls off my shoulder because the strap was haphazardly sewn on, I'm going to be mad...

On second thought, I'll stick to my regular bag... I do like the looks of this one though.
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Dear Matthew,

This is one of the things I like about RFF. We misunderstood one another, but were able to sort it out, instead of turning it into a slanging match.

Like you, I'd be nervous about build quality, but as you say, perfectly good old stock, or stuff that just wasn't popular for some reason, is often 'outed' cheaply.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Matthew,

This is one of the things I like about RFF. We misunderstood one another, but were able to sort it out, instead of turning it into a slanging match.

Like you, I'd be nervous about build quality, but as you say, perfectly good old stock, or stuff that just wasn't popular for some reason, is often 'outed' cheaply.

Cheers,

R.
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Totally! I like it here. I wouldn't want to make any enemies. And unless I know 100% that I'm right, I won't sling anything and will (usually) accept other's opinions for what they are, opinions. We all have them and should be able to share them sensibly. :)

Thanks for a good debate. Got my blood flowing early on a Saturday morning. :D
 
I was more than a little surprised when I saw the pic of this bag. I've had one for five or six years, bought it in a surplus store for about $15. Once in a while I try a different, more traditional bag and go back to my "sensible" bag.
Yes it is "sensible" it's reasonable price and you can't expect Mercedes quality for a Yugo price
If someone drops something out of the bag because it doesn't have a zipper, I'd suggest carelessness rather than poor workmanship. We Americans won't take responsibility for misusing or mishandling things so things fall out of the bag because it's cheap?
Buy your shoes at Macy's or Kmart? Which one is more "sensible"?
Remember the original canvas Leica bag for $20? That was sensible, the new one for $150? I don't know.
 
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