A question about back-in-the-day LTM conversions

[reagan]

To put myself to sleep at night, I read. At times, a Leica Manual or Leica Pocket Book does the trick in a very short amount of time. *zzzzzzzz* So last night I’m reading the Pocket Book in the Leica Conversions section and it mentions that Leica I [Standard] would not be converted by the factory above a IIIa or IIIb because the IIIc and up had an 1/8” longer body. I’ve seen not long ago a Leica Standard conv. to IIIc for sale and I realize there have been over the years many Leica conversions done by non-factory sources who didn’t necessarily concur with factory limitations.

But my question is about those factory choices/limitations: The shorter body of the I to IIIb hindered exactly what parts that were added to the IIIc and up? I mean, was the shutter assembly of the IIIc longer [or wider] than the IIIb as well? Or the winding mechanism, frame counter or something else was slightly larger and wouldn’t fit? Or what?

Yeah, this is nit-picky stuff, but it just got my curiosity aroused a little. Knowledge of these things might aid in future parts hunts or swaps and I thought someone here might have passed this way before and could enlighten me a little. Thanx!

 

[xayraa33]

the Leicas up to the IIIb were assembled from many small parts on a built up common chassis or crate, with the basic same shutter.

the IIIc had a die cast frame and a different shutter, albeit of a similar design and principle.
even the shutter curtain running time was different on the IIIc to the earlier models, as was the slow speed escapement and even how the frame counter worked.

the old Austin Mini cannot be turned into the new Mini, although they might resemble each other, you get the idea.

 

[reagan]

thanks xayraa33. so the newer/improved shutter and die cast frame of the IIIc and up just will not fit into the smaller IIIb and down 1/8" shorter body - right?

 

[xayraa33]

thanks xayraa33. so the newer/improved shutter and die cast frame of the IIIc and up just will not fit into the smaller IIIb and down 1/8" shorter body - right?

yes, they are different generations of cameras.

A Leica standard or Leica II can be built up to a III or IIIa or IIIb, as all you do is add on to the basic structure.

The IIIc was not built like that, it was totally new, more integrated and robust with redesigned mechanisms.

 

[reagan]

got it. thanks mucho. interesting. i wonder why Leica didn't go with a new number to match the all new workings? Leica.IV or whatever. but what do I know about marketing, eh? 🙄

 

[Dralowid]

However...

You can find 'short' Leicas of all ages that have been factory converted to have IIIf shutter/sync etc. Some call these 'white dial' cameras when they are black.

What you can't find is the conversion of the v/f-r/f from separate to together on a short camera. The construction won't allow it. Look back on this forum for the 'Show us your conversion' thread. There is even a table showing what the factory offered.

Michael

 

[xayraa33]

However...

You can find 'short' Leicas of all ages that have been factory converted to have IIIf shutter/sync etc. Some call these 'white dial' cameras when they are black.

What you can't find is the conversion of the v/f-r/f from separate to together on a short camera. The construction won't allow it. Look back on this forum for the 'Show us your conversion' thread. There is even a table showing what the factory offered.

Michael

The shutter remains the same as on the earlier cameras, on the conversions.
You can see that on the camera in this ad, it still has 1/20th as the slowest shutter speed on the fast SS dial.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ndexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

Checking Mr Oleson's drawing on the Leica III & IIIa versus the IIIc IIIf notes can confirm the difference in construction and assembly.

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-155.html

 

[Dralowid]

...point taken!

...point taken!

 

[reagan]

oh yeah. large difference. links/photos are a big help. thanks guys! guess i was "out for tea" during the thread on conversions. i'll have to dig up a photo of mine and add to the pile. 😎