jmooney
Guy with a camera
Hi All,
I was hoping if someone were to have a Bronica RF645 and Mamiya 6 and/or 7 they could post some pics of them side by side and from the front and back just to get an idea of their sizes in relation to one another. Any pics are much appreciated!
Take care,
Jim
I was hoping if someone were to have a Bronica RF645 and Mamiya 6 and/or 7 they could post some pics of them side by side and from the front and back just to get an idea of their sizes in relation to one another. Any pics are much appreciated!
Take care,
Jim
W
Way
Guest
Here they are. Hope they give you an idea of the sizes. From left to right: Mamiya 6, Bronica RF, Mamiya 7. First two pics show the M6 with lens collapsed and extended. The M6 is fited with the 50mm lens (the 75mm lens is a bit shorter). The M7 is fitted with the 80mm lens and the Bronica has the 65mm lens.
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W
Way
Guest
jmooney
Guy with a camera
AWESOME!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, I really appreciate it!
Jim
Jim
kuzano
Veteran
It's very puzzling....
It's very puzzling....
Coming as very mild criticism, this is not the first time I have seen people comparing the Mam 6/7 with the Bronica 645RF.
The Mamiya is at a distinct disadvantage in such a comparison of physical size only.
The Bronica offers a negative that is only 2.7 times the area of a 35mm, while the 6 square or 6X7 negative is more like 4 times the area of 35mm, or roughly 1.5x the area of 6X4.5.
Personally, I rank Mamiya, Bronica and Fuji lens quality somewhat the same. The Bronica 645 is not a particularly small camera, and would be better compared to a 6X4.5 camera, but that's difficult to do in 6X4.5 media
It seems to me that the closest one can get to a true apples to apples would be the Fuji GA645Zi which gives a zoom range of 55-90, approximating the use of interchangable lenses (and far more expensive for that selection in the Bronica) than the lens selection for the Bronica 645RF.
Additionally the Fuji ZI is a one camera carry.. no bag and extra lenses...Need a new focal length.... press the zoom button.
I used to shoot Bronica MF and was hard on the trail of buying a 645RF, until I saw the price and difficulty of finding the 100mm lens.
I opted for the Fuji GW 690 and later the GA645Zi, after using 3-4 of the GS645 series. I have had 3 of the GA645Zi's and never regretted the switch to Fuji. I actually believe the EBC coatings on Fuji lenses were formulated to enhance Fuji's various emulsions.
Just another look at the exercise.
It's very puzzling....
Coming as very mild criticism, this is not the first time I have seen people comparing the Mam 6/7 with the Bronica 645RF.
The Mamiya is at a distinct disadvantage in such a comparison of physical size only.
The Bronica offers a negative that is only 2.7 times the area of a 35mm, while the 6 square or 6X7 negative is more like 4 times the area of 35mm, or roughly 1.5x the area of 6X4.5.
Personally, I rank Mamiya, Bronica and Fuji lens quality somewhat the same. The Bronica 645 is not a particularly small camera, and would be better compared to a 6X4.5 camera, but that's difficult to do in 6X4.5 media
It seems to me that the closest one can get to a true apples to apples would be the Fuji GA645Zi which gives a zoom range of 55-90, approximating the use of interchangable lenses (and far more expensive for that selection in the Bronica) than the lens selection for the Bronica 645RF.
Additionally the Fuji ZI is a one camera carry.. no bag and extra lenses...Need a new focal length.... press the zoom button.
I used to shoot Bronica MF and was hard on the trail of buying a 645RF, until I saw the price and difficulty of finding the 100mm lens.
I opted for the Fuji GW 690 and later the GA645Zi, after using 3-4 of the GS645 series. I have had 3 of the GA645Zi's and never regretted the switch to Fuji. I actually believe the EBC coatings on Fuji lenses were formulated to enhance Fuji's various emulsions.
Just another look at the exercise.
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W
Way
Guest
The Mamiya 6 is a very compact MF camera when the lens is collapsed into the body. I think the Bronica's controls, ergonomics and VF LEDs are well laid out and that's where the Bronica excels. That said, I use the Mamiyas more, though I need to exercise the Bronica more too. Both are wonderful cameras and it boils down to if you like 6x6 or 645.
(I also like using the old Fuji folder, GS645. )
(I also like using the old Fuji folder, GS645. )
katgut@earthlink.net
Established
Way,
I know it's off-subject, but what do you think of your Whedbee? I'm waiting for a Tschu Ho Lee to sell, then I'm looking for a good-sounding modern fiddle (I'm CM of a regional orchestra).
thanks
Back on subject: In my experience, the image quality difference between 645, 6x6, and 6x7 is minimal. I doubt most viewers could pick one over the other.
I know it's off-subject, but what do you think of your Whedbee? I'm waiting for a Tschu Ho Lee to sell, then I'm looking for a good-sounding modern fiddle (I'm CM of a regional orchestra).
thanks
Back on subject: In my experience, the image quality difference between 645, 6x6, and 6x7 is minimal. I doubt most viewers could pick one over the other.
Turtle
Veteran
The RF645 and Mamiya 7 are very different camera. I posted a comparison here ages ago in MF RF I think. IMHO the mamiya lenses resolve more highly than the Bronica's, while the Bronica's have a more classical look. Its up to you to decide which is best, but to say the Mamiya is only handicapped by size is to completely miss the point. Handling has a huge impact on your ability to get the shot, when shooting handheld. Here the RF645 has some fairly large advantages.
645 may only be 2,7x bigger than 35mm, but thats still 2.7x bigger than 35mm, which makes quite a big difference, but not as much as 4.5x (or whatever 6x7 is)... but thats pretty obvious.
I own both, though one RF645 body is on hold for later sale. I will probably keep one body as the handling of this camera is so darned good.
645 may only be 2,7x bigger than 35mm, but thats still 2.7x bigger than 35mm, which makes quite a big difference, but not as much as 4.5x (or whatever 6x7 is)... but thats pretty obvious.
I own both, though one RF645 body is on hold for later sale. I will probably keep one body as the handling of this camera is so darned good.
W
Way
Guest
Katgut - I sent you a PM.
jmooney
Guy with a camera
Not feeling criticized at all and I do appreciate your insight and the mention of the Fuji's as I sometimes forget they are out there.
I guess I should clarify my intent a bit. I'm a big fan of rangefinders and of Mamiya and Bronica. The biggest disadvantage for me with the Bronica is the vertical orientation as standard. I wanted to see if it was significantly smaller though that the Mamiyas because I might be inclined to live with it if it was a lot smaller. Feature-wise I think the Bronnie would be a near perfect camera for me if it was oriented horizontally but since that's not the case and it isn't that much smaller than the Mamiyas I'll probably forgo it .
The 645 vs 6x7 isn't a terribly big issue for me in this case as this camera would be carried instead of a 35mm RF so even with 645 I'm still ahead of the game.
I'm basically torn now between the 6 and 7. Pro's of the 6 being it's lower cost, lower cost to get a good range of lenses, and being able to hold off on the vertical/horizontal decision till I'm standing in front of the enlarger or having the choice to print square. Downside to the 6, the 50 is a little wider than I'd like (the 35mm FL on 35mm is my most used FL by far.) Pro's of the 7 is the extra real estate, downside is the cost of the lenses.
I love the idea of the bigger Fuji RF's but need a meter. I will give the Fuji 645's another look now though.
Pablito
coco frío
M6 folds very compact, the other's don't.
brian steinberger
Established
Jim, the fuji 645 rangefinders are also vertically oriented. To be honest, it took me a few weeks to adjust for my Bronica RF645. But now I wouldn't have it any other way. It makes it unique in a way.
kuzano
Veteran
The vertical orientation consistent
The vertical orientation consistent
I think you will find that all of the 645 rangefinders will be portrait orientation. As I can currently recall, I don't think 645 will be found in any 645 camera until you include SLR cameras, where the film back rolls the film up and down. Those are the more bulky cameras like the Mamiya, Pentax and Bronica ETR bodies for 645. These are system cameras, with many lens, back, and metering options, but they are bulky.
I can't think of any MFR that makes a 645 Rangefinder where the film rolls vertically (portrait mode) rather than horizontally (landscape).
That's a function of the format.... 645 puts 15/16 frames on a roll of film rolling sideways, while 6, 6X7 and 6X9 put 12, 10 and 8 landscape image on that same roll rolling sideways.
So, if needing a horizontal image is the deal maker, and within the cameras you prefer, the Mamiya 7 is a natural choice.
I'd still likely choose a Fuji GW690III, and put a VCII meter in the hot shoe. However, no lens choice. My option for lens choices was to have a GW690II and a GSW690III, but I surely never packed both of them around at the same time.
It sounds like you will be disappointed in any system beside the 7. Discriminating searching will help on lens prices. However the best bet would be to find a nice 7 with at least two of the lenses you ultimately want. The price will be less of a hit on a package deal, most likely.
The vertical orientation consistent
I think you will find that all of the 645 rangefinders will be portrait orientation. As I can currently recall, I don't think 645 will be found in any 645 camera until you include SLR cameras, where the film back rolls the film up and down. Those are the more bulky cameras like the Mamiya, Pentax and Bronica ETR bodies for 645. These are system cameras, with many lens, back, and metering options, but they are bulky.
I can't think of any MFR that makes a 645 Rangefinder where the film rolls vertically (portrait mode) rather than horizontally (landscape).
That's a function of the format.... 645 puts 15/16 frames on a roll of film rolling sideways, while 6, 6X7 and 6X9 put 12, 10 and 8 landscape image on that same roll rolling sideways.
So, if needing a horizontal image is the deal maker, and within the cameras you prefer, the Mamiya 7 is a natural choice.
I'd still likely choose a Fuji GW690III, and put a VCII meter in the hot shoe. However, no lens choice. My option for lens choices was to have a GW690II and a GSW690III, but I surely never packed both of them around at the same time.
It sounds like you will be disappointed in any system beside the 7. Discriminating searching will help on lens prices. However the best bet would be to find a nice 7 with at least two of the lenses you ultimately want. The price will be less of a hit on a package deal, most likely.
Debusti Paolo
Well-known
My MF RF kit is Bronica rf645 with 45/65/100 lenses ,flash,double shoe,pol filter and a 903 swc with a12 & a16 backs..........
you'll need a pair of weeks to use the vertical VF but you'll love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
you'll need a pair of weeks to use the vertical VF but you'll love it!!!!!!!!!!!!