A Tweet about why Agfa and Fuji are getting out of the film business.

[Ste_S]

That is patently untrue. Anything can be sold to anyone with enough skill. A good product is worth using. How can people use film if they dont know about it?



No one is talking about Fujifilm getting film use to how it was back in the day. Those days are gone forever. But film can grow in use if it is marketed properly. Fujifilm does nothing to promote film aside from INSTAX film. They are VERY successful promoting that film. They do nothing to promote their other films. Then, when there are no sales, they claim no demand and then discontinue the emulsions. If they dont try, there will NEVER be sales to justify their films.

I'm not sure what it's like in the rest of the world, but here in the UK it seems as though Fuji are actively trying not to get their films sold.

There's an interview with Matt from Ag Photographic (a UK lab / film seller) on the Sunny 16 podcast who talks about the difficulties of getting Fuji to sell him some film. Finally took an introduction from one of the Ilford directors for him to be able to get a good amount of stock at a reasonable price.

With other UK sellers, Ilford and Kodak are always present, Fuji less so. My local lab didn't stock Fuji for a long time until I started badgering him to get some Superia 400 in.

Superia was everywhere in the UK at one point, even as recently as last year, and was my go to colour stock - especially when you could pick up three packs at £12.
Now, it does feel as though Fuji are slowly withdrawing as their stored film stocks start to dry up. Instax by comparison is everywhere.

I really want to shoot some Fuji but it appears they either don't make the products I want, or for those they do they're more difficult to get hold of than Kodak or Ilford.
Bought a Nikon F4s from Aperture the other week, and they kindly threw in a free roll of ISO200 colour film. Kodak or Fuji they asked ? Fuji I said.... but of course they had no stock of the Fuji.

 

[Ted Striker]

Are you sure about that? I mean think about the investment needed in order to gain a tiny bit more users. In the old days most folks shot a roll a year, at least this was the norm as I remember it. Now the same people use their smart phones. What marketing could persuade them to use the medium of the past?

Why do people paint?

Why do people sculpt?


Why do people do anything artistic?


Why do people enjoy doing things with their hands? More so than ever in today's relentlessly digital world.


Film's future is not to compete with cell phones. It's to create new users who enjoy film for film's sake.


It can be done. If only Fujifilm would try.


Sadly, Fujifilm has no interest in still photography.

 

[Ted Striker]

I'm not sure what it's like in the rest of the world, but here in the UK it seems as though Fuji are actively trying not to get their films sold.

There's an interview with Matt from Ag Photographic (a UK lab / film seller) on the Sunny 16 podcast who talks about the difficulties of getting Fuji to sell him some film. Finally took an introduction from one of the Ilford directors for him to be able to get a good amount of stock at a reasonable price.

With other UK sellers, Ilford and Kodak are always present, Fuji less so. My local lab didn't stock Fuji for a long time until I started badgering him to get some Superia 400 in.

Superia was everywhere in the UK at one point, even as recently as last year, and was my go to colour stock - especially when you could pick up three packs at £12.
Now, it does feel as though Fuji are slowly withdrawing as their stored film stocks start to dry up. Instax by comparison is everywhere.

I really want to shoot some Fuji but it appears they either don't make the products I want, or for those they do they're more difficult to get hold of than Kodak or Ilford.
Bought a Nikon F4s from Aperture the other week, and they kindly threw in a free roll of ISO200 colour film. Kodak or Fuji they asked ? Fuji I said.... but of course they had no stock of the Fuji.

Pretty sad story. Speaks volumes about Fujifilm's "commitment" to the future of film photography.

 

[miha]

Why do people paint?

Why do people sculpt?


Why do people do anything artistic? I don't think it is.

So you are suggesting film is artistic? Since when?

Why do people enjoy doing things with their hands? More so than ever in today's relentlessly digital world.

Not sure people are more eager today but I get your point, however I fail to see where film kiks in 😕

Film's future is not to compete with cell phones. It's to create new users who enjoy film for film's sake.

I very much agree with you. No one knows for sure how to create new users I'm affraid.

It can be done. If only Fujifilm would try.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this very point.

Sadly, Fujifilm has no interest in still photography.

True.

Me? I'm quite selfish. I hope to be able to obtain all sorts of film from 135 to LF sheet film to feed my cameras. I fear the day when 4x5 colour becomes a thing of the past.

 

[Skiff]

Blah, blah, blah....I'm sure that we will see more and more discontinuations of film from Fuji in 2019. Their "commitment" to film is flimsy at best. A few shiny brochures do not change this fact.

I bet against that.
I bet that latest in five years from now we will have a bigger standard film portfolio from Fujifilm than today.
Because Fujifilm is now seeing slowly increasing demand for their standard films. With the ongoing film revival that will increase in the coming years.
And Fujifilm is very "opportunistic" concerning market trends: They don't ignore growing markets in the long term.
There is enough evidence for that:
- when the market for instant film has turned they invested heavily in instax
- when the market for silver-halide RA-4 turned into positive they have made strong investments in new RA-4 products
- they have invested heavily in their X-system cameras when they saw the chances in that market.

The official and very clear commitment from Fujifilm at Photokina was just the first small step. More will follow in the future. Especially if we do our part and support them by buying their excellent films. Demand is the most important factor, and we can and should do our part.
Monopolys are never good for a market. And having both Kodak and Fujifilm for color films is best for us all.

 

[Skiff]

Sadly, Fujifilm has no interest in still photography.

Which is just completely wrong.
They are meanwhile the biggest producer of still cameras (more than 8 million in their last fiscal year, and more of 95% of that being film cameras - instax).
They are also by far the biggest film producer worldwide. Their instax production alone is bigger than the film production of all others together. And they are not only producing more instax film every year, but also X-ray film.
At last Photokina they did a huge print exhibition (which is also on a world tour) on real photo paper. No other company had such a good presentation and support for traditional photography at this biggest worldwide photofair.
They have started promoting film use and their films successfully on instagram, gaining lots of subscribers there every week.
They have just already re-introduced some reversal films in sheet film formats (4x5" and 8x10").
And they have just re-introduced new 3-packs of C200 and Superia 400 in North America.
They are also slowly increasing their local "Fujifilm Wonder Store" shops. Neither Kodak, nor Ilford nor Foma has that.
So there are significant signs of a positive change. The stronger the film revival becomes, the higher the chance for more activities from Fujifilm.

 

[Skiff]

From the picture posted by Skiff - only 6 emulsions left, down from 15 since 2010, quite miserable:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/5042362476/
There is simply not enough demand to justify more.

In the last years Fujifilm was hit more severly by the decreasing demand than all the other manufacturers. For two reasons:
- Fujifilm had for years the by far biggest film portfolio of all producers, including lots of special niche market films like Superia 1600 and slide films - film types Kodak stopped producing long before
- Fujifilm was hit severely by all the Fujifilm haters in social media which said Fuji had to be boycotted.

Some manufacturers like Ilford experienced the market change first (around 2015/16). Some followed a bit later (Kodak).
And from what I have heard at Photokina this year from Fujifilm and some international distributors is that this year was the first year Fujifilm has experienced an increase in their sales, too (mainly in CN film). They reacted quite fast with the re-introduction of the 3-packs and the official statement at Photokina that they continue standard film production.

And:
Having 6 excellent films (5 of them being best in their class) is much much better than having no films at all.
And if I have a choice e.g. between 3 excellent films and 10 mediocre films I will always prefer the three excellent films.
Too much photographers are focussed on the sheer number of films on the market, and not on the quality.

I am very thankful that Fujifilm has saved reversal film! They have been the only company which has been so brave to continue the production of several reversal films in different formats, and also continued the production of E6 chemistry both for home users and professional labs.
Only because of Fujifilm's permanent support of the whole E6 infrastructure Kodak now has the chance to re-introduce Ektachrome.
If Fujifilm has had the same ignorant behaviour Kodak had in 2012, than reversal film would be dead today!
Therefore a big "thank you" to Fujifilm. They saved color reversal film!

I am convinced that in 5 years from now we will have more standard films from Fujifilm. They will not ignore the film revival in the long term.

 

[Ted Striker]

I am convinced that in 5 years from now we will have more standard films from Fujifilm. They will not ignore the film revival in the long term.

I'll gladly eat my hat if Reala, Acros, and Astia return.

 

[joe bosak]

A Tweet about why Agfa and Fuji are getting out of the film business.

Would be cool if the success of instax and the continued interest in some level of 35mm film led to instant slide film being resurrected.

 

[Ste_S]

I am convinced that in 5 years from now we will have more standard films from Fujifilm. They will not ignore the film revival in the long term.

I hope you're right, but a lot of your posting looks like white knighting for Fuji as you're a fan.

All we can do is look at the facts. Fuji has been culling film stocks over the past few years. They recently pulled Acros, leaving them in the unique position of being the only film manufacturer without a B&W stock.

Outside of the facts we have industry insiders stating the Fuji stopped making non-Instax film a while ago and we're just getting the remains from the freezer. On the other hand we have a vague statement from Fuji at Photokina about film - something that's not even mentioned on their website
http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n180911.html

I guess we'll see.

 

[Ted Striker]

I hope you're right, but a lot of your posting looks like white knighting for Fuji as you're a fan.

All we can do is look at the facts. Fuji has been culling film stocks over the past few years. They recently pulled Acros, leaving them in the unique position of being the only film manufacturer without a B&W stock.

Outside of the facts we have industry insiders stating the Fuji stopped making non-Instax film a while ago and we're just getting the remains from the freezer. On the other hand we have a vague statement from Fuji at Photokina about film - something that's not even mentioned on their website
http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n180911.html

I guess we'll see.

Well noted. Fujifilm has discontinued a lot of films, despite making the claim that they are committed to the future of film. I expect more products from them to disappear in 2019.

 

[Skiff]

I hope you're right, but a lot of your posting looks like white knighting for Fuji as you're a fan.

I am not a fan. I am using films from all major manufacturers.

All we can do is look at the facts. Fuji has been culling film stocks over the past few years.

As has Kodak. In total Kodak has even discontinued more films in the last ten years. I don't critizise that, because the drop in demand was huge.

They recently pulled Acros, leaving them in the unique position of being the only film manufacturer without a B&W stock.

The decision concerning Acros was made already last year. Just the announcement was this year. The problem with Acros was / is that some raw material is not available anymore.

We have first actions of Fujifilm supporting their recent statement:
- 3-packs are back
- reversal sheet film is back
- a clear statement on the biggest photo fair worldwide.
If you are changing your direction, you have to make first, small steps. Especially if you are such a big company like Fujifilm. They cannot be so fast and flexible as the much smaller Kodak, Ilford, Foma. They need time to change. We should be patient.

Outside of the facts we have industry insiders stating the Fuji stopped making non-Instax film a while ago and we're just getting the remains from the freezer.

Which insiders? Please tell the names!
I have never heard that from any real insider. Just from same stupid film bloggers well known for telling lies. Not reliable sources at all!

 

[HHPhoto]

Outside of the facts we have industry insiders stating the Fuji stopped making non-Instax film a while ago and we're just getting the remains from the freezer.

This clearly shows that these people don't know what they are talking about. They don't have any knowledge of film manufacturing. Because:
Film manufacturers do not freeze film after production! None of them! After coating the master rolls are stored at around 8°C. Agfa Belgium has explained that in former times on their homepage. Simon Galley of Ilford has explained that on apug. The CEO of Adox has said the same, former FF employees, too. At Photokina former Agfa Germany engineers confirmed that. In the Book "Making Kodak Film" it is also described.

I have been at Photokina, too (we've had also a very nice meeting with several other rff members there).
I have visited the Fujifilm booth, too. I have also picked up that flyer with the Commitment to film.
Photokina is mainly a B2B fair. The big distributors are coming there. Companies that buy hundreds of thousands of rolls film per order. To them this statement has been now given at Photokina.
Can Fujifilm go behind that in the future? No, not really. They would "loose their face". In Japanese culture a real problem.
And the news at Photokina was that Fujifilm has big backorders = the demand is significantly surpassing the current supply so far this year. So probably the demand situation for Fujifilm has changed to the positive. In this context their official statement / commitment makes sense and seems to be an indicator that Fujifilm starts to slowly change its strategy.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Faintandfuzzy]

I'll gladly eat my hat if Reala, Acros, and Astia return.

I wish you'd eat your hat and be quiet. You anti film trolling here, photrio, photo.net and DPReview with various User IDs like this one, Rattymouse, etc, is tiring. Would be nice if the mods here silenced you for once

 

[Argentia1]

We have first actions of Fujifilm supporting their recent statement:
- 3-packs are back
- reversal sheet film is back
- a clear statement on the biggest photo fair worldwide.
If you are changing your direction, you have to make first, small steps. Especially if you are such a big company like Fujifilm. They cannot be so fast and flexible as the much smaller Kodak, Ilford, Foma. They need time to change. We should be patient.

+1.

Another indicator that Fujifilm is slowly and step-by-step changing direction to a stronger support of normal films (besides instax films) is that they just recently invested in an additional marketing for standard film by this new internet portal for film beginners:
https://www.ishootfujifilm.com/

Would you spend money for new marketing if you intend to stop production?
Certainly not.

 

[Ste_S]

+1.

Another indicator that Fujifilm is slowly and step-by-step changing direction to a stronger support of normal films (besides instax films) is that they just recently invested in an additional marketing for standard film by this new internet portal for film beginners:
https://www.ishootfujifilm.com/

Would you spend money for new marketing if you intend to stop production?
Certainly not.

I think the true test for Fuji being serious about film production would be re-launching it's B&W range. Not a website done by it's North American arm.

 

[Argentia1]

I think the true test for Fuji being serious about film production would be re-launching it's B&W range. Not a website done by it's North American arm.

No, the first hard test is going on with the current film line for the next years. If demand for these films is increasing (that is our part as photographers!) then a re-introduction of products make sense.
Whether it makes sense then to go in the overcrowded and extremely competitive BW market........
Adox has just introduced its new HR-50 (excellent film by the way). Their CHS 100 II is scheduled for beginning of 2019. They are also working on further films and papers for the coming years.
Film Ferrania is currently working on BW emulsions, too.

At first step for re-introduction the much larger and much less competitive color film market is probably the better option. There is only one real competitor.

 

[jawarden]

I have a soft spot for Fuji and I wish the best for them. It seems inconceivable that they have no black and white offerings at all after making so many great films, but here we are. I hope they re-enter the b&w marketplace before there is a talent drain in their company (something that I suspect has hampered Kodak for some time now).

It's a tough business for sure. I'd love to have Neopan 1600 back, but can a solid case be made for investing in it? It seems Kodak thought so and introduced P3200 to compete with Delta3200. Time will tell if they were right. (I love P3200 and use it regularly, but I'm just one data point.)

 

[Eugen Mezei]

Which is the slide Fuji brings back in sheets?

 

[Skiff]

Which is the slide Fuji brings back in sheets?

Provia 100F in 8x10".
And Velvia 100 in 4x5" and 8x10".
Go back in this thread and have a look at my posting, it is no. 8 in this thread. Look at the attachment with Fujifilm's current commitment to standard film from Photokina this fall. There is the current film program including reversal sheet film.