Bill Pierce
Well-known
It’s funny. Digital cameras are too complicated and too simple. Compared to film cameras with their basic shutter, f stop, focus and film advance controls - and maybe a built in meter, the digital cameras with a plethora of dials and buttons and a near infinite series of menus and submenus are incredibly complicated. Put them on program and autofocus, just push the button and they are extremely simple.
Indeed, their complexity is such that many folks understandably revert to the simple point and push “program” mode and let the camera make the important decisions about the basic shutter speed, f stop, focus and film speed. I sympathize, but I do think when the picture is published the camera should get the credit line.
I am perhaps a little less enthusiastic about the image quality of the Leica M digitals than many, but I use them, currently an M10, because the controls are simple, allow me to make the important decisions about the basic settings and then spend time concentrating on the subject. I also use Fuji cameras with the selector buttons turned off. And I rarely change my basic menu settings during a shoot. Come to think of it, I rarely change them before I start a shoot from the personalized settings I have found work for me. The big change is going to continuous auto focus and multi frame bursts when I’m photographing my dog or football.
This Spartan approach to my digital cameras came about because I found myself spending too much time happily scanning menus and twisting knobs and spending too little time looking at my subject and the frame I was placing around them. And, yes, I’m ashamed to admit it, I was shooting in program mode.
When an elderly working stiff can be seduced by menu mania and program mode, it is his duty to warn others and, yes, to consider giving the credit line under the photographs to his camera.
Indeed, their complexity is such that many folks understandably revert to the simple point and push “program” mode and let the camera make the important decisions about the basic shutter speed, f stop, focus and film speed. I sympathize, but I do think when the picture is published the camera should get the credit line.
I am perhaps a little less enthusiastic about the image quality of the Leica M digitals than many, but I use them, currently an M10, because the controls are simple, allow me to make the important decisions about the basic settings and then spend time concentrating on the subject. I also use Fuji cameras with the selector buttons turned off. And I rarely change my basic menu settings during a shoot. Come to think of it, I rarely change them before I start a shoot from the personalized settings I have found work for me. The big change is going to continuous auto focus and multi frame bursts when I’m photographing my dog or football.
This Spartan approach to my digital cameras came about because I found myself spending too much time happily scanning menus and twisting knobs and spending too little time looking at my subject and the frame I was placing around them. And, yes, I’m ashamed to admit it, I was shooting in program mode.
When an elderly working stiff can be seduced by menu mania and program mode, it is his duty to warn others and, yes, to consider giving the credit line under the photographs to his camera.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
You have camera geeks and you have photographers. I don' think there is that much overlap. The camera geeks constantly futz with menu settings and chimp and produce little of value. The photographers set their camera to their preferences, leave them alone, and concentrate on the image. I think it has always been this way.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I just purchased a Pentax K1. I bought it because I have many lens that fit the K mount, and because I have had 3 previous Pentax digital cameras. I thought this last reason for buying the K1 would make the learning curve quicker. I have given up: I use manual, have histogram showing on playback, and set my wanted ISO and aperture, and change shutter speed to control the histogram. I'm not going to get into all this crazy stuff that I will never use and don't want in the first place.
RichC
Well-known
It's embarrassing... I've an MA in photography, so folk are always asking for help with their cameras or want me to take a photo with their point-and-shoot. And I'm clueless!
Despite learning photography with digital not film, I do what you guys do and ignore most of the functions and controls bar the basics!
Despite learning photography with digital not film, I do what you guys do and ignore most of the functions and controls bar the basics!
Takkun
Ian M.
I'm in agreement (and also someone with a photography degree who's clueless about what's out there). I like having the basics—buttons and dials for my essential functions like exposure/ISO, focus, drive modes and really little else. I was using a D850 for a project not long ago and completely overwhelmed, especially by the WiFi and in-camera RAW conversions which are mostly useless, but since they're there, I feel the need to utilize them somehow.
I appreciate some of the soft (i.e., non-hardware) functions built in to some cameras, like multiple exposure, slow-sync flash, etc that are sometimes buried in menus. But most of the time it's a lot of features and settings I either will never, ever need and just provide mental clutter, or worry if I don't tweak, I won't get the best image. The color and fine focus settings of the D3 come to mind.
Don't get me started on trying to get focus modes to work; definitely something that, 90% of the time, I spend more time trying to figure them out and hoping the camera won't outsmart me than if I just did it by hand. This weekend I took out my white-elephant D2x to a bicycle race, and almost every shot was out of focus, weirdly exposed, or both. Switched back to the M8, and almost every one was a technical keeper.
I appreciate some of the soft (i.e., non-hardware) functions built in to some cameras, like multiple exposure, slow-sync flash, etc that are sometimes buried in menus. But most of the time it's a lot of features and settings I either will never, ever need and just provide mental clutter, or worry if I don't tweak, I won't get the best image. The color and fine focus settings of the D3 come to mind.
Don't get me started on trying to get focus modes to work; definitely something that, 90% of the time, I spend more time trying to figure them out and hoping the camera won't outsmart me than if I just did it by hand. This weekend I took out my white-elephant D2x to a bicycle race, and almost every shot was out of focus, weirdly exposed, or both. Switched back to the M8, and almost every one was a technical keeper.
zuiko85
Veteran
Another down side to the complex multi function cameras is that it is so hard to determine if the camera is functioning correctly of if it's gone insane. Especially true if buying used equipment. How can a buyer know if a complex camera is working correctly?
kuuan
loves old lenses
My digital cameras all are very simple. Generally they are set to A mode and auto ISO. For 95% of my photos I have nothing to do on the camera, I focus and set aperture on the lens according to intent and liking. Opps, I am using adapted manual lenses, typically a digital camera has autofocus, is even more simple(?). Sometimes S mode is called for, fixed or higher ISO than auto ISO goes up to, sometimes I use the self timer, now and then the in-cam panorama. All is very easy to set.
I don’t see much complications. Cameras are simple in use and offer extra possibilities. Extra possibilities don't make normal operation any less simple but if used, specially if used scarcely, may demand a bit of effort
I don’t see much complications. Cameras are simple in use and offer extra possibilities. Extra possibilities don't make normal operation any less simple but if used, specially if used scarcely, may demand a bit of effort
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Wait till the Konost shows up.
Then our problems will be over.
It will be pure simplicity, just like the good old days.
Then our problems will be over.
It will be pure simplicity, just like the good old days.
Swift1
Veteran
I agree, and this is why I think it's actually more difficult for beginners to properly learn photography nowadays. Digital cameras have the benefit of instant review, but are so complex in operation that most beginners just put the camera in full auto mode, and then don't really learn the technical part of of photography.
A Pentax K1000 for example has 3 things you need to learn, while a basic digital SLR has hundreds of things to adjust, learn, memorize, etc.
I started out with a Pentax K10D, and that was my primary camera for 3 years. I'm fairly tech savvy, and I learned a lot in those 3 years, but most of what I learned was just how to operate that particular device. Once I started shooting with meterless manual film cameras, I started learning so much more about photography.
A Pentax K1000 for example has 3 things you need to learn, while a basic digital SLR has hundreds of things to adjust, learn, memorize, etc.
I started out with a Pentax K10D, and that was my primary camera for 3 years. I'm fairly tech savvy, and I learned a lot in those 3 years, but most of what I learned was just how to operate that particular device. Once I started shooting with meterless manual film cameras, I started learning so much more about photography.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
I too have been disappointed by the needless complexity of the digital cameras I have tried.
Colton's comments are spot-on. When they make a digital as simple as the K1000 I'm in.
Chris
Colton's comments are spot-on. When they make a digital as simple as the K1000 I'm in.
Chris
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Bill: I am disappointed that you are equating "credit" for a photo to the ability to correctly set f-stop, shutter speed, focus, and ISO. Is that all there is to making great photos? Certainly you do not think so.
I simply do not believe that your significant lifetime success as a photographer came from your ability to correctly set f-stop, shutter speed, focus, and ISO. Do you not agree there is something in your eye, your soul, your intuition that is the primary "credit" for photography, not simple adjustments?
I don't use program mode, but I was under the impression that the most important aspects are framing / composition and compelling content not shutter speeds and aperture choices.
kuuan
loves old lenses
generally sure, nevertheless aperture and / or shutter speed may constitute defining factors
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Bill is entertaining!
I remember how I watched Annie Leibovitz DVD and realized what she is still glueless about the gear. It is left for assistants.
Our elder daughter was the same with her venture in professional photography.
She left it without knowing what exposure is. Yet, she was capable in using of M mode and compensated TTL flash. I used her setting to take our passport like photos and it worked better than I usually have camera set for.
And here is opposite side. Those needs all of the settings in camera, then they need days to manipulate it PS by multi core CPU as RAW 50MB file to produce some over processed, unnatural dross...
Personally, then I want to be 100% sure without chimping, I use S16. And it is still the same on digital. ISO, aperture and shutter speed... Actually I only learned about exposure after switching to digital and M. I have tried program mode initially and it was giving me skunks.
I remember how I watched Annie Leibovitz DVD and realized what she is still glueless about the gear. It is left for assistants.
Our elder daughter was the same with her venture in professional photography.
She left it without knowing what exposure is. Yet, she was capable in using of M mode and compensated TTL flash. I used her setting to take our passport like photos and it worked better than I usually have camera set for.
And here is opposite side. Those needs all of the settings in camera, then they need days to manipulate it PS by multi core CPU as RAW 50MB file to produce some over processed, unnatural dross...
Personally, then I want to be 100% sure without chimping, I use S16. And it is still the same on digital. ISO, aperture and shutter speed... Actually I only learned about exposure after switching to digital and M. I have tried program mode initially and it was giving me skunks.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I have a few digital cameras, and when I purchased each one the first thing I did was read enough of the manual to know how to set the camera for aperture priority, how to make ISO settings manually, and how to set center point auto focus. That's it. And they are all still set that way.
I find digital cameras way too complicated for my aging brain to comprehend.
Best,
-Tim
I find digital cameras way too complicated for my aging brain to comprehend.
Best,
-Tim
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Two thoughts: 1) I just got a new long-zoom P&S. There are buttons on the damn thing that I just could not fathom, and I'm pretty good on this kind of stuff. Camera has a button marked "4K"; what does that do? Well, this happens as new features are introduced before they are fully worked out. I'll extend Bill's point to say just avoid such products.
2) In the old days, to make a high quality image, you had to nail the exposure, have color worked out, etc. Today, my digital cameras let me work on the image without worrying much about exposure, and color balance. Instead, the camera's automation is pretty good, and any errors are protected by the wide dynamic range and RAW capture. I can focus on the image, and sort out a lot in post. I like this kind of automation and the hardware that powers it.
2) In the old days, to make a high quality image, you had to nail the exposure, have color worked out, etc. Today, my digital cameras let me work on the image without worrying much about exposure, and color balance. Instead, the camera's automation is pretty good, and any errors are protected by the wide dynamic range and RAW capture. I can focus on the image, and sort out a lot in post. I like this kind of automation and the hardware that powers it.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I believe I reached a point of rapidly diminishing returns several decades ago in improving the quality of my photos by choosing appropriate shutter speeds and aperture choices. Yet I believe improvements in my eye, my soul, and my intuition have continued.
About ten or fifteen years ago, I first began using either aperture priority or shutter priority in determining exposure. But I always noted what the camera suggested for both aperture and shutter and made evaluations if they were what I would have manually chosen. Then I made manual adjustments if I thought they were necessary. Now I find I often use Program mode but still look to see if I agree with the program decisions, again making manual adjustments if needed. I still never shoot blindly without checking the camera suggestions. To me, that transition has been similar to moving from an automobile with a manual shift transmission to an automatic shift one.
Ronald M
Veteran
All true, but I find it nice to have some settings programs set up such a studio flash with perfect white balance, shutter speed etc. That way no need to root through menus to change things and the F and SS can be locked on Nikons.
The leicas can also have some specialized user settings but they are not so difficult to change as with Nikons.
When it come to real world use, put the camera on M 99% of the time.
The leicas can also have some specialized user settings but they are not so difficult to change as with Nikons.
When it come to real world use, put the camera on M 99% of the time.
pluton
Well-known
All those complicated settings are there if you need their functions.
Luckily, I don't.
Occasionally, I play with multi-exposure and other effects.
My digital Nikons and Fujifilm-Xs are always set the same way: Daylight WB, raw files, etc.
I set the stop, ISO, and either I or the camera meter sets the shutter speed. About 50% of the time, the camera meter is incompetent and I have to take control of shutter speed.
Being able to instantly switch the ISO setting is the miracle of digital.
Luckily, I don't.
Occasionally, I play with multi-exposure and other effects.
My digital Nikons and Fujifilm-Xs are always set the same way: Daylight WB, raw files, etc.
I set the stop, ISO, and either I or the camera meter sets the shutter speed. About 50% of the time, the camera meter is incompetent and I have to take control of shutter speed.
Being able to instantly switch the ISO setting is the miracle of digital.
PKR
Veteran
Bill Allard takes on a few students each year. I think about 8. Recently, he had to require a portfolio to be submitted for review for acceptance. And, all students must use their digital cameras in manual mode during the course work.
It seems many have the $ but can't cut the requirements. Also, those too advanced, who he doesn't think will benefit from his shepherding, are rejected.
It seems many have the $ but can't cut the requirements. Also, those too advanced, who he doesn't think will benefit from his shepherding, are rejected.