A word about the forums growth and members

[Andy K]

I don't mind a friendly flamewar over a photography related topic as long as nobody is hurt.
The problem is where to draw the line between friends making fun of each other and name calling. Especialy when those friends haven't met personaly.

So I try to take nothing personal but sometimes write in the way I understood anothers writing.

I'm pretty thick skinned and often forget that others are more sensible so better don't take me serious. After all, I'm the guy who didn't know that beeing called a "Kraut" is offensive because I like eating Sauerkraut 🙂

Ditto.

And yes Socke, 'kraut' is considered offensive. In fact here in Britain the affectionate text abbreviation for 'honey' (hun) as in 'Hi honey, I'm home' or 'Hi hun', is also considered offensive.

I hope the new moderators will be more even handed than the current moderator has been in recent threads.

 

[dcsang]

After the "fiasco" that was the overnight/this morning's water cooler talk I was a bit behooved to see the type of vitriol that flew back and forth within that thread. I come here to discuss what I consider is a "fun" topic per se. RangeFinder Cameras.

If I want politics, I'll stick to any number of political forums online.

With that in mind, and knowing that unlike what others may say, the internet (and sites) is ONLY "free speech carte blanche" if the site where you're spouting off is your own. Other than that, you follow the rules or if you don't like it, you leave.

As someone who has to moderate a number of journal communities (one with 2600 members and another with upwards of 6800 members) I know how difficult and demanding such a job can be; and although it's been said by others I'd like to echo that sentiment and say that both you Jorge and Joe have done an incredible job with only 2 resources running such a large and extremely active forum.

Cheers
Dave

 

[bmattock]

"And gathered at the Cenotaph, all agreed with hand on heart, to sheath the sacrificial knives." - Roger Waters

 

[back alley]

'I hope the new moderators will be more even handed than the current moderator has been in recent threads.'


perhaps you'd like to discuss this in a p.m.?

joe

 

[Andy K]

perhaps you'd like to discuss this in a p.m.?

joe

I see no reason to. Anything I have to say I'm happy for others to read.

I am not the only one who has noticed you pretty much 'take sides' in recent disagreements. One example would be the ''anyone who bad mouths bill will have to deal with me" comment you made in one thread. In another a member had to remind you that the behaviour you were displaying was the very same behaviour you are supposed to moderate, you replied to them rather curtly, and closed the thread thus stifling any further debate.

There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. In a couple of recent instances you have been more censor than moderator. The mark of a good moderator is that the moderation goes unnoticed.

I am sorry if this does not go along with the general air of mutual backslapping going on here.

 

[back alley]

points well taken.
i think there is room for disagreement here with how i do what i do.

i am the moderator and i do think that entails a certain degree of censorship.
jorge has said how he likes things here and he has asked me to help ensure that that happens.
at times it's a judgement call, and i will defend those that i believe are being attacked.
much of what i do remains unseen , like the private messeges sent out to some this morning.
thebackslapping is not as much as it seems. i also receive p.m.'s from trusted members with a word or 2 of admonition re. my beahaviour or tactics.

believe me, i make no claim on perfection, be it judgement or behaviour.
i try my best to decide on how to moderate, it is not an easy job.
it's interesting to see the diverse viewpoints though.
i also get some emails that say that i am too wimpy and not nearly as hard assed as i should be.
there really is no winning sometimes.

so i trust my gut and hope my emotions do not enter into it too much.

i am very open to these types of posts/discussions as i think it may help to educate all members as to the process involved in my moderator style.
i think you were right to keep it open.

hope this helps to explain 'me' a bit more.
joe

I see no reason to. Anything I have to say I'm happy for others to read.

I am not the only one who has noticed you pretty much 'take sides' in recent disagreements. One example would be the ''anyone who bad mouths bill will have to deal with me" comment you made in one thread. In another a member had to remind you that the behaviour you were displaying was the very same behaviour you are supposed to moderate, you replied to them rather curtly, and closed the thread thus stifling any further debate.

There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. In a couple of recent instances you have been more censor than moderator. The mark of a good moderator is that the moderation goes unnoticed.

I am sorry if this does not go along with the general air of mutual backslapping going on here.

 

[sbug]

I’ll throw my thoughts in here since I’ve had a free couple of minutes to collect them. Note that I missed whatever discussions/threads went on recently that prompted this thread and an increase in moderators. Also, these are my thoughts and I in no way expect anyone to abide by them. I’m sharing for the sake of discussion only. That being said…

If you have an issue with a member here, I’m a fan of the PM to flush that stuff out. I liken it to deciding to discuss an issue with you have with your wife/husband/significant other at home rather than waiting to bring it up in the middle of the family reunion.

If you have an issue with the site or the larger community of RFF members, by all means post it. However come not just with complaints but with suggestions and ideas for improvement. Know that none of them may come to fruition and be able to find satisfaction in the efforts you make for the betterment of a place you obviously like to frequent.

I’ve not been involved in any overly heated or nasty discussions here or on other forums that I can think of. (There are other forums? 🙂 ) It’s likely I should credit that to being a horrible typist and being willing to read and re-read before posting to weed out spelling errors and sometimes deciding to not post after all, but I would guess that my above thoughts are a contributing factor as well.

If nothing else, we’re obviously not ignoring the elephant in the room with us all and that's a real good thing.

 

[lmd91343]

Jorge and Joe,

This is a great and well run forum. Thank you for fashioning it in that way.

I agree with your announcement. It is unfortunate that it had to be done. I have seen a couple of rude postings and replies that mock the poster's language skills. No one should be insulted, even more so when English is not their first language. I have enough trouble with English and it is my mother tongue. 😉

This is a good path you have chosen. As internet groups get larger, they can become infected with "internet disease" where acrimony and disrespect quickly explodes because of the anonymous nature of the internet. I have seen a couple of very good camera groups lapse in to that abyss.

Thank you again,

 

[Fred]

I didn't read what has caused this and to be honest I won't try and find out. Now and again things get out of hand and thats that, the odd poster pushes the buttons known to upset others and it all goes off. Fortunately this sort of thing here is quite rare and I for one agree that it best nipped in the bud by having 24 hour moderator coverage.

Joe, I think you've done a grand job over the last year that I've been here and Jorge has kindly provided a great place for us all to hang out and have the odd virtual beer and for that I thank you both.

One thing to remember is that none of us are perfect and we all can make a wrong call from time to time including moderators of any site. We all need the odd wake up call from time to time to step back and cool down, thinking a little more about going public with a comment that might light the firework fuse. Sometimes a PM will defuse the whole lot and clear up confusion between humor and insult. Works for me anyway.

Good luck to Jorge, Joe and the new moderators. Take good care.

 

[nomade]

I hear you Jorge, and i'm still not able to udnerstand how come that Joe is the only moderator here, but that shows how great people you both are...🙂

 

[Jocko]

Sbug, what you missed in the wee hours this morning was like something straight out from the old "Outer Limits," or better, the old "Twilight Zone." One thread was around 110 postings long, the other around 70, before I finally called it quits. I ran out of beer. 😎

RJBender copied both threads. 🙂[/QUOTE

With due respect, it really wasn't funny at all. It was wretched, nasty and entirely self-destructive.

 

[sf]

Very decent move, Jorge. Makes alot of sense, and I'd call it 100% necessary.

Thanks

-George

 

[Jocko]

I know, but I was drunk at the time.

😀 Thanks Frank! That's what i love about this place!

 

[yossarian]

I'm unclear if a particular event precipated this, but I'm supportive in every way. I've
never liked arguing for its own sake, and a couple of times when I've strayed it was
another forum member who called me on it--gaining my respect in the process. I
can think of ONE person only who seemed to be relentless about provoking a fight
with me (and perhaps others), but I haven't seen any posts from him for weeks. It
doesn't matter to me either way--I have no problem with that person remaining an
active member, if he'll just moderate his tactics.

RFF is my only forum. The childish and boorish behavior by members of other forums
is not for me. I come here not because it's a "rangefinder" forum, but it just seems
the members here are mostly in synch with each other, and with me as well, making
for a pleasent form of communication.

Some of what I have to say here I take very seriously. I just never take myself very
seriously.

Thank you, Jorge, for providing the best damn refuge on the web.

Regards,

Fred

ps--Since there has been the occasional discordant note here of late, I must add for clarification that the above accurately reflects how I feel as long as I NEVER again
get some passive-aggressive dumb-ass remark about not having a gallery here.

 

[akptc]

... Thank you, Jorge, for providing the best damn refuge on the web....

This about sums it up for me.

 

[wilt]

Thanks for running this great community!

 

[robert blu]

Jorge and Joe, first i thank you for the good work you are doing for this forum. I never joined before any other forum but after I visited RFF for a few weeks I decided it was worthwhile to join. What I like in this forum is the interest for photography, for RF cameras and more important, at least for me, the general friendly atmosphere.
Like to meet some friends after work before going home. I hope it will go on like this. Molto bravi, ciao

 

[Gid]

This is a cool site, well run and for the greater part good natured and fun. Long may it continue. Well done and keep up the good work.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

It is *very* tough putting something together like this on your own. It's very tough policing something like this as well. Joe isn't infallible and neither is anyone else. He gets angry. He has opinions on who is right and who isn't. That's human nature. But that's also why there should be more than one moderator on a site. With one moderator, that person can be too close to an issue and may make the wrong judgement. I've learned that...first hand, actually. With a large community, having a caring group of people is the best thing. They can kind of police each other while policing the community in a way...keep tempers cooled and keep everyone objective. I mean, Joe and Jorge have been doing this on their own for so long and now this place is over 4500 strong...I believe some help is in order.

My offer is on the table of any assistance I can provide. 🙂

 

[aad]

Thanks for the great place. It's probably my favorite. I did see the war and kept out of it, as I've grown to trust the moderation on this board and felt no need to engage. Job well done.