ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
My strategy has been:
- A6000 for general shooting, portraits, events, etc.
- DSLR for long lens work and for sport/action subjects
Then, I came across this video
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/1155478085/real-world-test-the-sony-a6000-goes-surfing-with-chris-burkard
Chris Burkard shooting surfing with long lenses from shore/pier and with a housing in the water.
Very nicely produced. And beautiful. Chris Burkhard has some great images. Makes the case for A6000 for sports/action with 70-200 Zeiss or with Sony's AF adapter and A-Mount long lenses.
Curious for others' experience and reactions to this before I buy any long lenses for the E-Mount.
- A6000 for general shooting, portraits, events, etc.
- DSLR for long lens work and for sport/action subjects
Then, I came across this video
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/1155478085/real-world-test-the-sony-a6000-goes-surfing-with-chris-burkard
Chris Burkard shooting surfing with long lenses from shore/pier and with a housing in the water.
Very nicely produced. And beautiful. Chris Burkhard has some great images. Makes the case for A6000 for sports/action with 70-200 Zeiss or with Sony's AF adapter and A-Mount long lenses.
Curious for others' experience and reactions to this before I buy any long lenses for the E-Mount.
YYV_146
Well-known
You are right in saying that the A6000 AF is sufficient for tracking at long focal lengths. I would go as far to say that it outperforms high-end DSLRs for some purposes because of the immense PDAF coverage. This means that even if the object moves to the side of the frame for a second or two, tracking won't be lost.
What I would be concerned about, however, is durability. A 7dmk2 is still far more robust. The EVF will also stutter at the high burst rate setting. This means that once you start the burst changes in action won't be as easy to observe.
I've shot NCAA football with E-mount bodies (A7rII, A6000, from the sidelines) without much difficulty. But usually as a secondary camera to a 1D mk4. My go-to Canon tele is a 300mm F2.8 or 400mm F4, and the A6000 nicely covers the 60-200mm range.
GaryLH
Veteran
I still own a dslr - old Nikon D7100. Though the a6000 is fast, the d7100 is faster and the Nikon matrix metering beats the heck out of the Sony.
I think a lot depends on how close u are to the action and the direction of the action in terms what your success rate will be.
In general, the a6000 should be fast enough for most shots and the predictive af helps a lot.
The d7100 is probably the last dslr I will own, the af speed of mirrorless cameras has gotten good enough for my needs. I probably pick up the dslr maybe less than 3 percent of the time..
Gary
PS..where the d7100 gets the nod still is wildlife.
I think a lot depends on how close u are to the action and the direction of the action in terms what your success rate will be.
In general, the a6000 should be fast enough for most shots and the predictive af helps a lot.
The d7100 is probably the last dslr I will own, the af speed of mirrorless cameras has gotten good enough for my needs. I probably pick up the dslr maybe less than 3 percent of the time..
Gary
PS..where the d7100 gets the nod still is wildlife.
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wjlapier
Well-known
Actually, I was thinking of the A6000 but had a NEX 6 and took it to a HS basketball game and used the Sony 50/1.8 lens. It handles the fast erratic action of HS basketball. It's plenty camera for what I'll need this spring. My son runs 1600/3200 in track and his friends do a lot of other events I'll be shooting too. This coming from a D700 and 80-200 AFS or 200/2 AFS Ver I. I'm just a dad with a camera.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
I've tried photographing a kid on a swing with the A6000. EVF lag was too much, couldn't keep the moving target in the frame.
But, Chris Burkard shooting surfers got me thinking.
But, Chris Burkard shooting surfers got me thinking.
GaryLH
Veteran
Relative af speed
Relative af speed
Just as an FYI..
- The a6000 is a hair faster than the Fuji xt 1 in most cases. The predictive focus of the Sony is also better.
- the newest m43 cameras are a tad faster than the a6000 IMHO
- the dlsr like my d7100 was noticeable faster. My best keeper rate on moving wildlife is still the dslr.
I currently have two dslrs actually...the Sigma sd1 for the foveon sensor and the Nikon d7200. The last post I forgot to mention the sd1 since the af speed is only as good as maybe Nikon d200 at best.
But for me mirrorless is the way to go since these days it is rare that I need af speed past what the xt1 can provide. The main subjects of my shots are landscapes and still life w/ occasional street photography... So overall weight of kit is more important to me.
Gary
Relative af speed
Just as an FYI..
- The a6000 is a hair faster than the Fuji xt 1 in most cases. The predictive focus of the Sony is also better.
- the newest m43 cameras are a tad faster than the a6000 IMHO
- the dlsr like my d7100 was noticeable faster. My best keeper rate on moving wildlife is still the dslr.
I currently have two dslrs actually...the Sigma sd1 for the foveon sensor and the Nikon d7200. The last post I forgot to mention the sd1 since the af speed is only as good as maybe Nikon d200 at best.
But for me mirrorless is the way to go since these days it is rare that I need af speed past what the xt1 can provide. The main subjects of my shots are landscapes and still life w/ occasional street photography... So overall weight of kit is more important to me.
Gary
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Thanks, Gary. My question is what would it take to be able to shoot action with the A6000? Action like the kid on the swing? Maybe all I need is an aux-finder to keep the moving subject well-framed?
GaryLH
Veteran
What are your current setting when u shot action and what lens are u using? I know that unless u get the factory fw update for Zeiss toit lenses for example, they will not be able to support the a6000 version of 3D af tracking.
Also how close were u when u were shooting the kid on the swing?
Gary
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Hi Gary. Sorry to be slow in replying.
I wrote about problems following a kid on a swing with the A6000.
Yes, I have hybrid AF (I see the little dancing squares). The factory update for the 32mm Touit helped a lot with that lens.
Biggest problem was viewfinder lag. I got a lot of shots with poor framing. For action with the A6000, I might try an auxiliary finder.
Second problem was focus. Wound up with a lot of out of focus shots.
But, shooting probably two dozen frames, I got some keepers.
I wrote about problems following a kid on a swing with the A6000.
Yes, I have hybrid AF (I see the little dancing squares). The factory update for the 32mm Touit helped a lot with that lens.
Biggest problem was viewfinder lag. I got a lot of shots with poor framing. For action with the A6000, I might try an auxiliary finder.
Second problem was focus. Wound up with a lot of out of focus shots.
But, shooting probably two dozen frames, I got some keepers.
GaryLH
Veteran
So sounds like u have most of the bases covered w/ the kid on the swing.
- did u have focus priority or shutter release af priority set. W/ focus priority I would have thought that in a continuous af and high frames per second shutter drive (burst) mode that the at minimum the first shot is in focus and the predictive 3D would have gotten some of the others in the sequence.
- predictive seemed to work the best when the subject was coming toward me as oppose to across the screen..for me when I tried it I had more keepers..I am guessing the comment about keeping it in the frame is about this issue, so u have a situation where u are panning?
- the closer u are to your subject, the harder it seems to get the af right (at least for me)
Personally, as a rule of thumb, if I shoot a 6 frame burst on a mirrorless camera, I personally don't expect more than 2 to have good focus compared to 3-4 on a dslr.
A lot of evf actually do not update while in middle of high burst mode or update 1 in so many frames because they just don't have the time..CPU horsepower and bandwidth related issue plus LCD technology limiting refresh rate. The new evf are getting better though. The a6000 was good in its time, but the rumored a6000 replacement will have a much better refresh rate. While a camera like the Fuji xp1 w/ the ovf/evf could eliminate this problem in ovf mode, it's af speed is really not good enough. Whether the new xp2 will be up to the task, who knows.
The problem I c w/ the ovf solution on the a6000 is af lock confirmation when your eyeball is locked to the ovf. The only way around it is focus priority af mode and assume a6000 has got it right while u are paning.
Due to combination of shutter release delay and af lock time plus user reaction time also adds to the issues here.
There are times I just turn off af and just manually focus for a point where I know the subject will be...
Shooting action is something I really don't do much of except for wildlife where I tend to use my dslr.
Good luck,
Gary
- did u have focus priority or shutter release af priority set. W/ focus priority I would have thought that in a continuous af and high frames per second shutter drive (burst) mode that the at minimum the first shot is in focus and the predictive 3D would have gotten some of the others in the sequence.
- predictive seemed to work the best when the subject was coming toward me as oppose to across the screen..for me when I tried it I had more keepers..I am guessing the comment about keeping it in the frame is about this issue, so u have a situation where u are panning?
- the closer u are to your subject, the harder it seems to get the af right (at least for me)
Personally, as a rule of thumb, if I shoot a 6 frame burst on a mirrorless camera, I personally don't expect more than 2 to have good focus compared to 3-4 on a dslr.
A lot of evf actually do not update while in middle of high burst mode or update 1 in so many frames because they just don't have the time..CPU horsepower and bandwidth related issue plus LCD technology limiting refresh rate. The new evf are getting better though. The a6000 was good in its time, but the rumored a6000 replacement will have a much better refresh rate. While a camera like the Fuji xp1 w/ the ovf/evf could eliminate this problem in ovf mode, it's af speed is really not good enough. Whether the new xp2 will be up to the task, who knows.
The problem I c w/ the ovf solution on the a6000 is af lock confirmation when your eyeball is locked to the ovf. The only way around it is focus priority af mode and assume a6000 has got it right while u are paning.
Due to combination of shutter release delay and af lock time plus user reaction time also adds to the issues here.
There are times I just turn off af and just manually focus for a point where I know the subject will be...
Shooting action is something I really don't do much of except for wildlife where I tend to use my dslr.
Good luck,
Gary
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Gary, I was in Continuous AF, following the subject, trying to squeeze the shot at the right time.
In retrospect, I would have probably done better by shooting a burst and letting the camera track subject. I also would have been better off with a longer lens, shooting from further away. With a 50 on the APS camera, I couldn't keep the kid framed in a desirable way.
In retrospect, I would have probably done better by shooting a burst and letting the camera track subject. I also would have been better off with a longer lens, shooting from further away. With a 50 on the APS camera, I couldn't keep the kid framed in a desirable way.
GaryLH
Veteran
I tend to
- shoot continuos af
- set shutter to burst - trust the 3D to handle it better than I can
- try to anticipate the right moment, due to shutter lag, I tend to shoot just very slight ahead of the right time. If I have enough light to handle a both a high shutter speed and fat fstop like f8 or 11, that is even better.
- stand far enough back that the subject is somewhere between 50-70% in the fame depending on both direction of moment and how fast. The fast or more pronounced the movement the farther back I am. I will crop in post. Given 24mp sensor, there is a lot of detail that is retained even after crop.
btw not all Sony e mount lens are 3D compatible if I remember correctly.
Gary
- shoot continuos af
- set shutter to burst - trust the 3D to handle it better than I can
- try to anticipate the right moment, due to shutter lag, I tend to shoot just very slight ahead of the right time. If I have enough light to handle a both a high shutter speed and fat fstop like f8 or 11, that is even better.
- stand far enough back that the subject is somewhere between 50-70% in the fame depending on both direction of moment and how fast. The fast or more pronounced the movement the farther back I am. I will crop in post. Given 24mp sensor, there is a lot of detail that is retained even after crop.
btw not all Sony e mount lens are 3D compatible if I remember correctly.
Gary
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
GaryLH, thanks for the comments.
kuzano
Veteran
Taking a break from "mirrorless" for a bit.
Picking up the Nikon D3300 DSLR (very small form factor)
Reasons, hopefully just for a short while to test 3 things, since this $250 body shoots nearly equivalent to the D7100, and has
24.1 Mp sensor DX
No OLPF AA filtering
Expeed 4 (newer than the D7100)
Small and light, truly not much bigger than most mirrorless that it outclasses.
Has the newer, smaller very highly rated 18-55 VR, also quite small and very sharp per reviews.
I don't want a ff mirrorless, but I want more than 16 MP just for a look see.
I sincerely think the D3300, found quite easily from $250 to $300 can outclass the "mirrorless" camera's near it's class for a pittance the price of similar, less MP "mirrorless". Even now, the best micro 4/3 is still only 20Mp and $1000 body only. (and only two of those-The Panny GX8 and the new PEN F)
Mirrorless, I may not be back. Will see.
Pitting it against my Fuji X X-E1 at 16mp, and my recent EM-5 and EM-10 at 16Mp.
Only downside in the test is I don't expect the lens to beat the Fuji XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 for speed and sharpness. May be surprised.
Picking up the Nikon D3300 DSLR (very small form factor)
Reasons, hopefully just for a short while to test 3 things, since this $250 body shoots nearly equivalent to the D7100, and has
24.1 Mp sensor DX
No OLPF AA filtering
Expeed 4 (newer than the D7100)
Small and light, truly not much bigger than most mirrorless that it outclasses.
Has the newer, smaller very highly rated 18-55 VR, also quite small and very sharp per reviews.
I don't want a ff mirrorless, but I want more than 16 MP just for a look see.
I sincerely think the D3300, found quite easily from $250 to $300 can outclass the "mirrorless" camera's near it's class for a pittance the price of similar, less MP "mirrorless". Even now, the best micro 4/3 is still only 20Mp and $1000 body only. (and only two of those-The Panny GX8 and the new PEN F)
Mirrorless, I may not be back. Will see.
Pitting it against my Fuji X X-E1 at 16mp, and my recent EM-5 and EM-10 at 16Mp.
Only downside in the test is I don't expect the lens to beat the Fuji XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 for speed and sharpness. May be surprised.
GaryLH
Veteran
The quality of the m43 and Fuji lenses on average are better than the Nikon ones but once u get into their pro line match w/ the mirrorless or third party lenses from Sigma to Zeiss, it's a different story.
I've had Nikon gear since fm2 then the f3hp. It's a good thing I don't need to use a dslr that much, as I've gotten older, the weight gets to me, especially w/ two bum shoulders.
The dslr is still king of the hill when it comes to really long tele work, action, wildlife.. But the mirrorless cameras this last round looks to be closing the gap w/ the likes of the Sony a6300 and Fuji xp2 (at least on paper). The clear view of the a real prism is hard to beat.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
kuzano
Veteran
Not inclined toward Sony whatsoever.....
Not inclined toward Sony whatsoever.....
Every time I read enough about Sony to get interested I come up against the same wall....
No lens inventory, many messing with adapted lenses. I got over that (adapted lenses) because I was intrigued by legacy lenses on 4/3, but with the inventory Oly/Pana have on native lenses, working with adapted lenses just becomes a PITA. Not inclined to go through that again with Sony.
Secondly, I watch the IQ reviews and find Sony seems always a bit behind their in-class competition on IQ, and I will not sacrifice IQ at all when it's available elsewhere. So, I pass for the most part on Sony in the APSc format.
Not inclined toward Sony whatsoever.....
Every time I read enough about Sony to get interested I come up against the same wall....
No lens inventory, many messing with adapted lenses. I got over that (adapted lenses) because I was intrigued by legacy lenses on 4/3, but with the inventory Oly/Pana have on native lenses, working with adapted lenses just becomes a PITA. Not inclined to go through that again with Sony.
Secondly, I watch the IQ reviews and find Sony seems always a bit behind their in-class competition on IQ, and I will not sacrifice IQ at all when it's available elsewhere. So, I pass for the most part on Sony in the APSc format.
GaryLH
Veteran
True.. Sony not the best in town for native af lenses and their cooked raws just can't be pushed that well. I haven't seen much of their uncompressed raws to c how much it may have improved. I tend to look at Sony tech these days mainly to c what other manufacturers will use in their products.. What is I that a6300 sensor will one day be in a Fuji X series or Nikon dxxxx series camera.
Have fun w/ the Nikon dslr.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Looks like a6300 could be the one for sports action
Looks like a6300 could be the one for sports action
Check the second video out.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/new-sony-a6300-tests/
It has improved the af tracking and focusing of the a6000 and u can set it up for no blackout. Looks just about as fast as my Nikon d7100. In the past, I found m43 cameras to be the fastest for af focusing of all mirrorless cameras but not necessarily the best for tracking which is why the Nikon d7100 was still the king for me. This video has me rethinking this. I'll definitely keep an eye out on this camera but given I have the d7100, not in the market for one right now. Note he ended using that huge FE 70-200 zoom, most likely because of the better iq and faster af motors but also IS on it..I would guess.
The normally tele zooms in Sony E mount are pretty much normal consumer quality IMHO. Match a Sigma Art apsc zoom like new 50-100f1.8 using mc-11 adapter maybe a good solution but not sure if the 4D predictive af is supported fully until people can tested things out. For me, until I c Sony improve the quality of the apsc e mount lenses to be as competitive as the Sigma art series, not going to do much more than keep an eye out. Their G lenses for the FE line is the right direction though, but I think they a bit overpriced right now..IMHO..especially when used w/ an a6000 family camera.
Anyway interesting times, the last 6 months has been a gear heads wonderland in terms of the announcements we are seeing. For me, the Sigma SD Quattro is the only one I've got targeted for purchase. I had the mc-11 targeted but cancelled when I saw the sd Quattro announcement. That APS-h version is the one I want.
Also has anyone heard anything about the uncompressed raw support for the camera. The a6000 is still using lossy compressed raw. Sony never provided a fw update to first gen a7 and a6000 series that I'm aware of.
Gary
Looks like a6300 could be the one for sports action
Check the second video out.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/new-sony-a6300-tests/
It has improved the af tracking and focusing of the a6000 and u can set it up for no blackout. Looks just about as fast as my Nikon d7100. In the past, I found m43 cameras to be the fastest for af focusing of all mirrorless cameras but not necessarily the best for tracking which is why the Nikon d7100 was still the king for me. This video has me rethinking this. I'll definitely keep an eye out on this camera but given I have the d7100, not in the market for one right now. Note he ended using that huge FE 70-200 zoom, most likely because of the better iq and faster af motors but also IS on it..I would guess.
The normally tele zooms in Sony E mount are pretty much normal consumer quality IMHO. Match a Sigma Art apsc zoom like new 50-100f1.8 using mc-11 adapter maybe a good solution but not sure if the 4D predictive af is supported fully until people can tested things out. For me, until I c Sony improve the quality of the apsc e mount lenses to be as competitive as the Sigma art series, not going to do much more than keep an eye out. Their G lenses for the FE line is the right direction though, but I think they a bit overpriced right now..IMHO..especially when used w/ an a6000 family camera.
Anyway interesting times, the last 6 months has been a gear heads wonderland in terms of the announcements we are seeing. For me, the Sigma SD Quattro is the only one I've got targeted for purchase. I had the mc-11 targeted but cancelled when I saw the sd Quattro announcement. That APS-h version is the one I want.
Also has anyone heard anything about the uncompressed raw support for the camera. The a6000 is still using lossy compressed raw. Sony never provided a fw update to first gen a7 and a6000 series that I'm aware of.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Forgot to mention..
The new Sigma 30f1.4 for apsc e mount at least show that Sigma intends to keep,it's hands in the apsc segment. One can only hope that the other apsc dslr mount art lenses will show up in e mount. If u compare the 30f1.4 dslr lens to the mount one, the barrel is longer, so it maybe a built in mc-11 was added and repackaged. Price is good though.
Gary
The new Sigma 30f1.4 for apsc e mount at least show that Sigma intends to keep,it's hands in the apsc segment. One can only hope that the other apsc dslr mount art lenses will show up in e mount. If u compare the 30f1.4 dslr lens to the mount one, the barrel is longer, so it maybe a built in mc-11 was added and repackaged. Price is good though.
Gary