A7 with Some LTM, M mount lens

Another W-Komura 35/2.8 (LTM) on a7, f2.8

What a signature... 😀

DSC01063s.jpg
 
Some 'classic' 50s on A7

Today I pixel-peeped five 'classic' M-mount lenses on the Sony A7, going from widest aperture down to f4 (not going smaller than f4 on the assumption that M9 is my camera body for anything but low light). I was looking for both color vignetting and corner smearing. I'm taking 'classic' to mean style of rendering, not necessarily age. I'm using A7 instead of A7r because of advice here and on LUF that A7 is better with Leica lnses. They were:

--Pre-aspherical Summilux
--2007 1.5 Sonnar-C
--2.8 Elmar, last issue, with modern coating and fewer aperture blades
--5cm 1.4 Nikkor for Nikon S rangefinders, in Amadeo mount
--Millennium Nikkor-S in Amadeo mount

Pre-asph Lux: Best of the bunch. Luminance (BW) vignetting moves from dark to slight between f1.4 and 4, but there's no color shift in the corners. At f1.4, moderate corner smearing and noticeable chromatic aberration, but the smearing disappears entirely by f4.

Sonnar-C: Unacceptable. Lots of BW vignetting and Blue Channel color shift (hereafter B/CS) at f1.4; these characteristics continue to f4 with the B/CS actually increasing. Smearing and marked CA at f1.5; smearing decreases but doesn't go away at f4.

2.8 Elmar: BW vignetting and B/CS at f2.8; gentler BW vig at f4, but continuing B/CS. Always a bit of corner smear – not as good as the pre-A Lux, though much better than the Sonnar-C.

Vintage Nikkor: Lots of BW vig with no color shift at f1.4; B/CS increases as you stop down. From f1.4 to 4, soft corners, flare, and smearing. Unacceptable on A7 except as an interesting 'special effects' antique-looking lens. (Much nicer on M9!)

Millennium Nikkor: BW vig at f1.4, but no color shift. Slight B/CS appears at f4. Smears in corners at f1.4 and 2, decreasing to very little at 4.

Overall, corner color shift appeared primarily in the Blue channel, according to LR RGB measurements. I was surprised to see very little in the Red channel. Maybe that's a problem with A7r more than A7? .

I'll be using the 2.8 Elmar on A7 more than my peeping might suggest. In low light and high ISO at f2.8, it has enough DOF to use with focus-peaking; and the dark corners almost cover up the B/CS and look almost natural in low-light situations – as if one's eyes are focusing on the center of the image in the relative darkness. It's smaller and lighter; and I'm comfortable carrying it in my pocket, whereas my black-paint pre-A Lux and Millennium Nikkor are too minty for that sort of treatment.

The Sonnar-C's performance was a disappointment to me. I thought that using it with Sony focus peaking would avoid its problem of focus shift and make it a generally usable and not too fancy 50mm lens with nice bokeh.

Kirk
 
PatrickT said:
Really been enjoying this thread (just looked through it all). Did it get forgotten about? 🙂
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for my mount adapter to arrive. Then I'll test some of my lenses on the A7.

To be sure, I pretty much have all the bases I need covered already with Leica R and Nikkor lenses. If the Ultron 28/2, Nokton 40/1.4 or M-Rokkor 40/2, and M-Rokkor 90/4 work well on the A7, that's the basis of a more compact kit for traveling/carrying as the R lenses are bulky. Also, the adapter will let me use my existing Skink pinhole/zone plate kit (M-mount) without having to buy yet another one for E-mount.

Here are a few from the A7 + Leica R lenses:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/sets/72157640840226983/

G
 
Goody ... the M-mount to NEX adapter just arrived.

Now I can start testing my M-mount lenses. I don't hold out much hope for the Color Skopar 21, 28, or 35 mm. Maybe the Ultron 28/2 will work well. I'm hoping the Nokton 40/1.4 or M-Rokkor 40/2 work well, and the M-Rokkor 90/4 ... that would be the basis of a nice compact kit for travel.

Probably no time to do this until the weekend at least ... deadlines are upon me..

G
 
can you people rely on cameras aperture priority, when using these adapted lenses?

are some adapters more clever than others (e.g. chipped like in Canon EF)?
 
jarski said:
can you people rely on cameras aperture priority, when using these adapted lenses?

are some adapters more clever than others (e.g. chipped like in Canon EF)?
Click to expand...

Most lens adapters for the A7 permit two AE modes: Aperture priority and Manual with Auto ISO. The latter operates like TAv mode on Pentax cameras: you set the aperture and shutter speed you want, it will vary the ISO to match. It's quite useful because they also included EV compensation, just like the Aperture priority AE. (True Manual mode means locking the ISO too.)

I believe there are some adapters for the Canon EF lenses that implement AF and aperture control. Those should allow all AE modes (PAS) and M.

G
 
thanks Godfrey. so non-native lenses are quite useful on this system? was left in a bit opposite impression by reviewer in DPreview.

he recommended using shutter priority, which slows me down quite a bit.

... shutter priority is pretty much essential if you want to shoot with a third-party lens via an adapter on the a7/a7R. As we will explain fully in our forthcoming review, in aperture priority and program modes the Auto ISO function of these cameras LOVES to select a shutter speed of 1/60 sec. Just LOVES it. This is frustrating enough when using one of Sony's new FE lenses, but it's courting disaster when using a fully manual prime, especially 50mm or longer where it almost guarantees blurry images from camera shake much of the time.
Click to expand...
 
jarski said:
thanks Godfrey. so non-native lenses are quite useful on this system? was left in a bit opposite impression by reviewer in DPreview.

he recommended using shutter priority, which slows me down quite a bit.
Click to expand...
You can use program mode or auto mode with auto-ISO. With a manual lens attached, the system just adjusts what it can: shutter and ISO. "P" has a floor of 1/60 (when possible) and tries to keep ISO down so you frequently find it at the floor shutter speed. Auto uses modes that use higher shutter speed but has its own limitations (no manual override of ISO as one example).

I would try the more automated modes and see if any suit you. You will still have aperture control via your adapted manual lens.

Most adapters are regarded by the software is "no lens attached." All modes are accessible but the camera controls nothing in the lens. There are smart adapters for Canon and Sony Alpha lenses, possibly some others as well. These are considered to be "lens attached."
 
jarski said:
thanks Godfrey. so non-native lenses are quite useful on this system? was left in a bit opposite impression by reviewer in DPreview.

he recommended using shutter priority, which slows me down quite a bit.
Click to expand...

LOL! Typical DPR stuff.

I have ONLY non-native lenses (Leica R and Nikkor SLR lenses). I have the camera configuration customized specifically to shoot with my beloved Leica R lens kit most of the time. I have no intention of ever buying a single Sony lens. ;-)

Using S mode does nothing for you because the camera has no control of adapted lens apertures. You're essentially setting both aperture and shutter time manually, and letting ISO float with Auto ISO ... same as using Manual mode with AutoISO.

Given Scrambler's remarks, I guess P mode can also work ... but it sounds like it just duplicates what A mode does (vary the aperture and ISO in AutoISO based on a fixed aperture) again because the camera has no control of the aperture.

G
 
Wow nice results!

A friend of mine lend me his a7 for making it a half case.

And in the process i´ve noticed waht a beast of camera.

I think it´s superb for wide angle shooting, don´t need extra viewfinders!

i think i´ll get myslf one for only that purpose!!!
 
😕 May I be allowed one daft query here? I'm considering getting an a7, for use almost entirely with old manual lenses (LTM, Minolta MC, M42). I'd like to know whether the a7 (not a7R, although I think it won't matter for this) can be put into aperture priority mode (Av) and a dial be customized to control ISO? Or must I go diving in menus to change ISO? I ask this because I've read some whinging about how the camera, when in Av, always chooses 1/60 shutter speed and the auto-ISO then compensates to make proper exposure. I have no interest in auto-ISO. On my only digital camera at the moment, a Pentax K20D, if I use Av mode, I have the front dial controlling ISO (a custom configuration, IIRC) and the rear controlling aperture. When I mount an ancient manual lens (e.g., a Takumar), of course its aperture ring really controls aperture, the rear dial does nothing useful, the front dial still controls ISO, and the camera chooses only the shutter speed. Can I do the same with the a7 and just never bother with auto-ISO?

The a7 instruction manual is only semi-clear about this. I admit that's based on what I could find by Ctrl+F searching; I did not read its 448 pages (crikey!) cover to cover.

--Dave
 
Argenticien said:
😕 May I be allowed one daft query here? I'm considering getting an a7, for use almost entirely with old manual lenses (LTM, Minolta MC, M42). I'd like to know whether the a7 (not a7R, although I think it won't matter for this) can be put into aperture priority mode (Av) and a dial be customized to control ISO? Or must I go diving in menus to change ISO?
Click to expand...

Not many RF mount lenses really perform well on the A7 (or A7r) IMO. I've tested so far the Color-Skopar 21, 28, and 35 ... the 35 is just "ok", the others do a lot of color shifting and smearing. The Ultron 28/2 is also a poor performer on the A7 (does well on the Leica M9 however). I haven't tested the Nokton 40, Nokton 50/1.5 LTM, M-Rokkor 90, and Hektor 135 yet ... I have heard the 40 does well, the Nokton 50 does poorly, and the 90 and 135 do well. But, for me, this is really a camera to use my prized Leica R lenses with: it's the "Leicaflex SL Digital" body that Leica will never produce.

Av and Manual modes are the only two that make sense for adapted lenses. You can also use Program mode (which acts identically to Av with manual lenses) and Sv (which acts identically to Manual), with fixed or Auto ISO settings. The A7 (and A7r) by default have ISO as a direct control on the four-way controller rotating dial.

The unchangeable bottom limit of 1/60 second when using Av that everyone gripes about is only when using Auto-ISO, as you said. It's actually useful if you mostly use wide to normal focal length lenses and AutoISO ... it kinda does what I'd do when manipulating ISO manually. But of course, fix the ISO and the exposure system will exposure time around to very long indeed.

BTW, the sensor in the A7 is clean enough that you can easily shoot at any ISO from 100 to 3200-6400 and hardly notice a difference for even reasonably large prints. That's about a 5-6 stop range of freely usable adjustment; don't think of it as you would a film camera. AND the A7 has an excellent Manual exposure implementation. Turn on Manual, set AutoISO, and then set your desired shutter time and aperture. ISO will slide from 100 to your settable cap limit ... it can enable some kinds of shooting which is very nice indeed.

Argenticien said:
...On my only digital camera at the moment, a Pentax K20D, if I use Av mode, I have the front dial controlling ISO (a custom configuration, IIRC) and the rear controlling aperture. When I mount an ancient manual lens (e.g., a Takumar), of course its aperture ring really controls aperture, the rear dial does nothing useful, the front dial still controls ISO, and the camera chooses only the shutter speed. Can I do the same with the a7 and just never bother with auto-ISO?
Click to expand...

Not quite ... the A7 doesn't have quite that level of flexibility in its customization.

I use manual SLR lenses (Leica R and Nikkor lenses) exclusively. I have my A7 set up with the focus magnification on the AF/MF button, exposure compensation on the front dial, focus peaking on the down arrow, and ISO on the default four-way controller ring. It's fast and fluid in operation. When I switch to Manual mode, I can only control shutter time with the dials (the EV compensation remap doesn't work for manual mode) and use the EV dial on the top-right corner when using AutoISO.

Argenticien said:
The a7 instruction manual is only semi-clear about this. I admit that's based on what I could find by Ctrl+F searching; I did not read its 448 pages (crikey!) cover to cover.
Click to expand...

Sony's A7/A7r documentation is crappy and the menus are mess. At least you found the big book ... use it in a PDF reader by searching, eventually you find what you wanted to. The camera itself is a bit clunky and awkward, but it has just enough customizability that I could get it set up nicely for my use. Now I'm pretty happy with it. The viewfinder and the sensor are very very good, and it turns out to be an excellent match to my primary lenses, so I'm very pleased.

Another aside: the Think Tank Photo "Mirrorless Mover 30i" bag is an excellent fit for the A7 and three Leica R lenses (50/1.4, 24/2.8, 90/2 are what I usually have in it). It's very trim for its capacity and has good pockets, etc. I can swap out one or the other of the lenses for the 135 as well; the 180/2.8 is a bit on the fat side but I think I can squeeze it in too.

G

Oh, might as well toss in a photo ... ;-)


Sony A7 + Elmarit-R 24mm f/2.8​
 
Thanks, Godfrey, for all your detailed insight on my Av (&c.) questions. It's great to hear your views, as you have clearly used the camera a lot in this way, instead of so much repeated Internet "wisdom" that's out there. It sounds like this machine would do well for the use I'm accustomed to, which is mostly aperture priority. I'd likely buy it without even one FE lens, spending my funds instead on a bunch of adapters for legacy glass. It's sad to hear that some RF lenses don't do well, but I've got a fairly good range of focal lengths between my M42 and MC Rokkor sets, so I'd not be left blind even if the LTM ones were useless.

--Dave
 
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