A7r with RF glass

[uhoh7]

Dave I like the shot 🙂 Everyone has a different "usable" but my own criteria is edge performance at landscape distances. I found A7r loosing edge sharpness even at f/8 on several SLR lenses 28 and 35. That's when I really decided to let the camera go.

The a7 is much better with the same glass, and excellent with the CV 35/1.2 v1, contrary to what was said above.

The R was decent with the 35/1.2 but not as good in the landscapes I took.

The R has very dense pixels and Sony has designed the native glass to work with the processor on the R to improve the issue.

If I still had an R i would own both the 35 and the 55 natives.

But no question good photography can be made with R and all sorts of lenses. Technically though, from my own experience the M9 puts both sonys to shame in daylight. Even at night the M9 is great with the CV 35/1.2

an example:

L1000620 by unoh7, on Flickr

All that said, a camera does not have to perfect to be good and fun 🙂

a7 with pentax-m 150/3.5 today:

DSC08156 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

[raid]

It is tempting to one day get the A7.

 

[lam]

Technically though, from my own experience the M9 puts both sonys to shame in daylight.

All that said, a camera does not have to perfect to be good and fun 🙂

Completely agreed on both points.

I find the M8/M9 still pretty amazing!! I love the CCD and colors and sharpness, but like some I have to make compromises (aka can't afford both, and one doesn't do work photography too well)

and i'm having a blast adapting all sorts of random things to the A7's too..! all the more fun. 😀 I was eyeing your aerial shots on Flickr, they were pretty awesome.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

Has anyone owned or indeed still does own both? Have we any examples of the same lens on both cameras? Too much to ask or the same scene 😀

 

[YYV_146]

A7 with the 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE. I do not see any of the issues others have noted in this thread. I created a cornerfix profile for the combination, and only observed luminance levels reduced in the corners. Corners are sharp at f1.4.

 

[YYV_146]

But no question good photography can be made with R and all sorts of lenses. Technically though, from my own experience the M9 puts both sonys to shame in daylight. Even at night the M9 is great with the CV 35/1.2

I agree with the lens part, but must disagree with the M9 part.

I have never owned an M9 or M9-P, but have used quite a few of them over the years. The main reason why I never bought one? Because the output of the M9 is terrible compared to almost all CMOS sensors.

When you get everything just right, the M9 can deliver satisfying JPEG results in good light. However, it meters erratically even in daylight, and Auto WB goes to the blue side too easily.

The RAW file comparison is a different story...The M9's raw files have chroma noise in shadows at iso 100, and highlights blow out way too soon. I often find myself not knowing which side to expose to for a high contrast scene - should I aim for the shadows or highlights? My complaints can go on and on (and the list becomes longer every time I use the M9), but the bottom line is that the M9's files are nowhere near as malleable as those from the A7 or even the NEX-7.

😀 Maybe one can learn to deal with CCD files, or maybe I've grown lazy and accustomed to brutally pushing files into a certain look. But no, I don't there is any advantage the M9 has over the A7 in terms of raw file quality, and the A7 has a clear advantage in terms of delivering consistent Jpeg results.

A7, 50mm Summilux-M e43. The old Voigtlander adapter (non-macro) blocks corners on this combination, and I've ordered a Kipon adapter that solves the issue.

 

[gdi]

I was using the Sony A7r not the A7.
My 28mm lens is the Konica M-Hexanon 28/2.8. Not the Rokkor that people have shown to work well on the Sony cameras.
The next time that I see my friend and his Sony A7r, I will have my other rangefinder lenses with me: 35mm/2.0 UC-Hexanon, 50mm/1.4 & 85mm/2.0 Nikkor and 135mm/3.5 Canon. All in LTM. Should be fun and informative.
Cheers.

Wayne

If you get the opportunity, please post your evaluation with the Hexanons. I found both lacking with the A7r, but have found no trouble getting excellent performance across the frame with several 28 and 35 SLR lenses. If you want to use those it may be worth while to consider the A7, evidently it is not nearly so demanding of lenses.

But in my opinion, the significant advantages the A7r offers make it worth investing in lenses that can run with the sensor. I just can't see trying to force many M lenses on either of the Sonys, I'd just get an M9 or M240. So far I am most impressed with the FA 55, of course, and Contax and R WAs, but some Zuikos are also pretty good. I have decided that my M lenses that make the cut are "low light' 50's - Noctilux is awesome, and the Hex limited is great wide open - and my Summicron 90 is very very good.

Have fun with the tests!

 

[venchka]

28mm M-Hexanon samples...

28mm M-Hexanon samples...

I didn't get anything that I would share from the 28. All my fault. Alien camera. Alien focus method. Alien exposure system. I was flying blind without benefit of any instructions at all. Hopefully I will get a second chance with my friend's A7r. I missed out completely on testing with the A7 that he had for a few days before selling it and buying the A7r. Go figure.
For wide views, I have high hopes for my nFD 24mm, FD 35.2.0 & 35/3.5, FD 24-70 and EOS-EF 17-35.
I have not ruled out a Fujifilm digital camera either.

Wayne

 

[lam]

I ditched the AF functionality for manual focus (disabled AF function by using f25), and just started using the focus peak and zoom method I use with the Leica M lenses.

A7R Contax G 28mm f2.8


Key Model. by lamlux.net, on Flickr


A night with the snow. by lamlux.net, on Flickr


Phases of lights. by lamlux.net, on Flickr

 

[thompsonks]

An excitable tree, with 40 Cron again, A7, f11, no sharpening. Recommend trying one of these lenses.

Kirk

[/url]
Hyperactive tree by thompsonkirk, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[uhoh7]

@ YYV146

The FLE 35 is fantastic on the A7 as you say. I saw many samples early which showed this. Unfortunately, no other RF 35 except the big CV is close to that level. That lens alone costs more than a used M9.

As to your complaints about the M9, so far they are not relevant to my workflow--but I can't say you are not correct in all you say.

I shoot raw only--that's what I prefer. I do often push the blacks on the super high-contrast M9, but I find there is only modest noise penalty---less than with the sonys actually. Any pushing with Sony RAWS creates some noise. But you don't need to do it as much, since the dynamic range is way better.

The feeling I get with the M9 is a sensor with less between it and the light. Because it works fantastic with all sorts of RF glass, like the CV 35/2.5, ZM 18 etc, the lens set is way beyond the sony.

So, I have to choose whether to believe you, or my lying eyes LOL which tell me to pick up the M9 each day instead of the very cute and nice handling sony 🙂

That said I love the M9 A7 combo. Two cameras which compliment each other.

 

[YYV_146]

@ YYV146

The FLE 35 is fantastic on the A7 as you say. I saw many samples early which showed this. Unfortunately, no other RF 35 except the big CV is close to that level. That lens alone costs more than a used M9.

As to your complaints about the M9, so far they are not relevant to my workflow--but I can't say you are not correct in all you say.

I shoot raw only--that's what I prefer. I do often push the blacks on the super high-contrast M9, but I find there is only modest noise penalty---less than with the sonys actually. Any pushing with Sony RAWS creates some noise. But you don't need to do it as much, since the dynamic range is way better.

The feeling I get with the M9 is a sensor with less between it and the light. Because it works fantastic with all sorts of RF glass, like the CV 35/2.5, ZM 18 etc, the lens set is way beyond the sony.

So, I have to choose whether to believe you, or my lying eyes LOL which tell me to pick up the M9 each day instead of the very cute and nice handling sony 🙂

That said I love the M9 A7 combo. Two cameras which compliment each other.

I haven't seen any outstanding issues with my 18mm ZM Distagon on the A7. A bit less red compared to the M9 if I'm looking closely. But I find Zeiss's quality control an issue with ZM lenses, and sold my copy instead of trying to fix the issues it developed after less than two years' use.

With light work the M9 delivers the sufficient amount of contrast, I would say about half the time the Jpegs are basically what I want. But the A7's response is flatter, that would create noise if you want to work on the files, but makes them much more versatile.

Body issues aside, the M9 is quite fantastic camera for street photography. As long light conditions do not call for too much work in post, it is a fine camera. High light space is also almost a negligible issue if one learns to meter for the highlights, and the M9's tonal depth at iso 100 and 200 are excellent.

At the end of the day I can't see myself justifying an M9, even if I have a few lenses that are more expensive than one...Not because of the IQ, though. I shoot reportage and cannot afford to have a misaligned RF during an important event, or wait four months for a repair.

 

[gdi]

I didn't get anything that I would share from the 28. All my fault. Alien camera. Alien focus method. Alien exposure system. I was flying blind without benefit of any instructions at all. Hopefully I will get a second chance with my friend's A7r. I missed out completely on testing with the A7 that he had for a few days before selling it and buying the A7r. Go figure.
For wide views, I have high hopes for my nFD 24mm, FD 35.2.0 & 35/3.5, FD 24-70 and EOS-EF 17-35.
I have not ruled out a Fujifilm digital camera either.

Wayne

I meant when you get a chance to handle the camera more - you were clear your first shots were not optimal! I own no FD lenses, but I have seen very nice results posted with them, so I feel they are likely to be very good on the A7r. (As for Fuji - PM me if you decide to go that way, I am am close to posting a nice prime/X-Pro1 kit for sale here 🙂 )

 

[thompsonks]

I don't understand the enthusiasm for 35 Lux FLE onA7/r, but maybe our assumptions differ.

I found that it produced some color vignetting at all apertures, and that it smeared the corners from f1.4 to f4. Only at f4 and smaller apertures is it useful, if you're interested in printing the full frame.

My assumption is that for an M lens to perform well on A7/r, it has to do so at its wider apertures. If it won't, then the high-ISO gain over other cameras (especially M9) is lost – if you can shoot at 2500 but have to stop down to f4 or smaller, why buy the Sony body in the first place? Where's the gain over the M body for which you'd originally acquired the lenses?

 

[NazgulKing]

I don't understand the enthusiasm for 35 Lux FLE onA7/r, but maybe our assumptions differ.

I found that it produced some color vignetting at all apertures, and that it smeared the corners from f1.4 to f4. Only at f4 and smaller apertures is it useful, if you're interested in printing the full frame.

My assumption is that for an M lens to perform well on A7/r, it has to do so at its wider apertures. If it won't, then the high-ISO gain over other cameras (especially M9) is lost – if you can shoot at 2500 but have to stop down to f4 or smaller, why buy the Sony body in the first place? Where's the gain over the M body for which you'd originally acquired the lenses?

If you are going to use M lenses, you ought to get the app that does vignetting corrections. I have seen some pics taken with the CV 12mm, but there's still a perimeter of purple, which I suppose one could crop out.

But the more problematic issue really is that that Leica's lenses are designed small yet the exit pupil position isn't far enough from the focus plane, thus the skew rays aren't getting to the sensor at normal incidence. Stopping down reduces the number of skew rays.

 

[thompsonks]

That's what we already knew?

But there's no software, except a crop tool, to undo smearing.

 

[thompsonks]

Another lens that maybe nobody has tried yet?

This is a 1950s 8.5 cm f2 Nikkor RF lens on A7.
I used an Amadeo S to M adapter, then a Voigtlander M to E adapter. The whole thing was a bit wobbly – but with focus magnification, focus was always right on.
F2.8,with focus on near edge of blue gate.
It's equally sharp all the way to the corners – no smearing, no color shift.
By 'equally' sharp, I mean it's as sharp at wide apertures as a 50s lens could ever be, with a sort of 'classic' look. If you like this &/or have Nikon S gear, this one is worth trying.

[/url]
1750ArchSt by thompsonkirk, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[YYV_146]

That's what we already knew?

But there's no software, except a crop tool, to undo smearing.

I've been using the 35mm FLE/A7 combo for about two months now, and none of the pictures have suggested that there is either color in corners or smearing. I suppose smearing could occur if the adapter you use is off axis, or if there is something out of whack with the lens, though.

But on a practical note, when I'm using a 35mm lens at f1.4 or f2 I'm not looking for corner sharpness. Whatever is in the corners is likely so far away from the plane of focus that it is blurry anyways. There actually is observable smearing and about 3 stops of extreme corner vignetting with the A7/21mm Summilux combo at f1.4, yet I bought the lens for the A7...and intend to make a portfolio this year using the combination.

A7 and the 21mm Summilux, shot at f1.4

 

[uhoh7]

Gorgeous shots you guys 🙂 Obviously the 21 Lux is great on the A7!

I tested the zm18 on both the R and plain 7.

For me, colorshift is not crucial, but edges are pretty important.

I found the zm 18 unusable on the R--for me.

On the plain 7 centers were great but edges sub-par even at f/11. These were shots at infinity.

I saw no reason to use the zm18 over my nFD canon 20/2.8, which is lighter and has alot better edges.

However, on the M9 (which I have only owned for a few weeks) the zm18 is a spectacular lens, with great sharpness across the frame.

Of course many superb photos don't have the edges in focus anyway, and nearer objects show smearing less than distant ones.

So I'd never advise anyone to buy a zm18 for use with the A7. If you have one already it can be used. But surely there will be a great native UWA soon.

 

[mszargar]

Now that the talk is about 35mm lenses, has anybody tried the summarit 35 f/2.5 on a7 yet? I almost never shoot my 35s in low light and I can be totally happy with f/2.5 if I can shoot the lens really at f/2.5. Have you seen any test around the web?

Cheers,
Mah