schow
Well-known
Dear all,
After using D-76 for the past 2 years, I've finally decided to try a little something different, Rodinal. Now, I've done a bit of research here but I want to ask the most basic, therefore stupid questions so I can get things right in my head before proceeding!
My main question is, can I follow the basic work flow that I've been using with D-76 for when I use Rodinal?
1. Developer
2. Fixer
3. Hypo-clear
4. Photoflo
My impression and initial hypothesis is, yes. Except, I'm not certain on the fixer part. I don't really see too much discussion on fixer here. I used the kodak fixer powder when I used D-76. Will this suffice when using Rodinal? Is there a recommended fixer for Rodinal?
I told you all it was very basic questions.
Thanks!
Sherm
After using D-76 for the past 2 years, I've finally decided to try a little something different, Rodinal. Now, I've done a bit of research here but I want to ask the most basic, therefore stupid questions so I can get things right in my head before proceeding!
My main question is, can I follow the basic work flow that I've been using with D-76 for when I use Rodinal?
1. Developer
2. Fixer
3. Hypo-clear
4. Photoflo
My impression and initial hypothesis is, yes. Except, I'm not certain on the fixer part. I don't really see too much discussion on fixer here. I used the kodak fixer powder when I used D-76. Will this suffice when using Rodinal? Is there a recommended fixer for Rodinal?
I told you all it was very basic questions.
Thanks!
Sherm
Mackinaw
Think Different
Yes, you can follow the sequence you use with D-76. Most folks however, separate the developing set from the fixer step by using a stop bath or plain water.
I use Ilford Rapid-Fix instead of the powdered Kodak fix mainly because the Ilford fix has no hardener. This shortens wash times considerably and can eliminate the use of hypo-clear.
Rodinal's great stuff, you'll love it. I use it a lot with slow ISO films like Efke 25.
Jim B.
I use Ilford Rapid-Fix instead of the powdered Kodak fix mainly because the Ilford fix has no hardener. This shortens wash times considerably and can eliminate the use of hypo-clear.
Rodinal's great stuff, you'll love it. I use it a lot with slow ISO films like Efke 25.
Jim B.
martin-f5
Well-known
after developing I use a stopbath,
nothing special,
for fixing I take a usual rapid fixer,
but I'm fixing in two steps.
Normal fixing two times the clearing time,
and a second fixing for about 3 min. in a rather new fixingbath.
Than washing in water and after all a washing ad.
nothing special,
for fixing I take a usual rapid fixer,
but I'm fixing in two steps.
Normal fixing two times the clearing time,
and a second fixing for about 3 min. in a rather new fixingbath.
Than washing in water and after all a washing ad.
Melvin
Flim Forever!
What kind of wash times are you all using? I was using Ilford rapid fix then washing for 10 minutes, as per the instructions, but then I read the Ansel Adams book and now wash film for half an hour. I'm also going to start giving it a final rinse with distilled water. It's confusing because I sometimes hear it's best to minimize "wet time" to reduce grain.
I'm also going to try Rodinal soon, but I'm going to make my own, since I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I'm also going to try Rodinal soon, but I'm going to make my own, since I can't seem to find it anywhere.
martin-f5
Well-known
well, I'm in a very good situation,
I've a a very clear water.
I wash in 5 times,
first on 10 times "tilt"
then fresh water and 20 times tilt,
then again fresh water and 30 tilts,
.. 40 tilts
.. 50 tilts
sometimes I give the water a little time to react,
2-5 minutes
I've a a very clear water.
I wash in 5 times,
first on 10 times "tilt"
then fresh water and 20 times tilt,
then again fresh water and 30 tilts,
.. 40 tilts
.. 50 tilts
sometimes I give the water a little time to react,
2-5 minutes
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Most modern films have a very thin emulsion compared to when Ansel Adams was writing The Negative. They absorb less fixer and it washes out more quickly. Still, Hypo Clearing Agent is cheap enough, and it's a good feeling to not have to worry about whether or not your negatives will outlast your granchildren.
schow
Well-known
So what does a stop bath consist of?
If I can use water will that basically be a rinse or should it be longer?
And if someone could briefly touch on the hardener factor for fixer, that'd be great. Will a fixer with hardener be detrimental with Rodinal development?
Thanks again.
Sherm
ElrodCod
Established
You can use ordinary white vinegar diluted 1:4 for a one shot stop bath. I buy vinegar at Sam's Club @ $3.38 for two gallons.
The regular KodaFix is a hardening fixer. I'd use that instead of Rapid Fixer.
vieri
Leica Ambassador
Sherm, hardener fixers were necessary before film had a "built-in hardener", so to speak; for modern emulsions, the use of an hardener fixer is no more necessary. Fastest wash, which results in less consumption of water + no need for a hypo-cleaning agent = better for the environment; the only films that still need hardening are - to my knowledge - Efke 25 & 50 ISO BW emulsions; someone else might chime in with more "old school" emulsions that still need hardening.
Hope this helps, good luck with your developing and post some pics!
Mackinaw
Think Different
Kodak Stop bath contains acetic acid. The stuff works fast, it only takes 30 seconds to complete the stop bath step. As somebody else mentioned, vinegar works too. If you use plain water, a 60 second rinse should do it.
Jim B.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I do not use an acid stop bath. With modern films, water is fine, especially with highly dilute developers such as Rodinal.
gb hill
Veteran
Adams shot large format also where the negs were much larger. I would reduce my wash times if I was you. I use Photoflo to displace water from spotting my negatives. But if you have a method that works for you then thats the main goal isn't it.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
Stop bath neutralizes the pH in the tank, which halts the development process; but to my mind, the main reason to use a stop bath with modern materials is to extend the life of your fixer (if you re-use it, which you really should). Like Gary, I've been using diluted distilled white vinegar as a stop bath for years. It's cheap, and I keep it in the house for cooking and cleaning anyway; it's the same kind of acid as is in the commercial stop bath products (it even smells the same!), so I don't see the point in paying extra.
Strictly speaking, you don't need a stop bath, but it is a good idea to wash the film at least with water between the developer and the fixer- mostly to limit the amount of developer you get into your fixer, which will reduce it's effectiveness and life.
With most developers, it doesn't matter at all what brand of fix you use. Some developers, such as Diafine, call for no acid to be used at all- no acid stop bath, and an alkaline fixer. I don't know how hard and fast that rule is; certainly by keeping the pH alkaline throughout the process, washing is easier and uses less water. But beyond oddities like that, it's fine to use any fixer with any developer. Just use what fix you have- it'll be fine.
Rodinal is an excellent developer with most films. It generally shows more grain than many other developers- but it will also show somewhat greater sharpness. (Remember grain and sharpness are to some extent inversely proportionate.) Rodinal also often shows very long tonal curves, and can show really excellent edge effects, all of which are part of it's appeal. I think it gives nicer results when used at higher dilutions (which of course unfortunately means longer times). If you search, you'll find lots of threads discussing Rodinal used 1:100 with very long times, and this is worth trying, but the bottle recommends 1:25 or 1:50. My recommendation is to use 1:50 for most normal processing. Finally, Rodinal tends to be a somewhat speed-reducing developer (the hour(s) long stand and semi-stand development processes you may read about for pushing not-withstanding...). For normal use, I'd suggest giving your film and extra third-, half- or perhaps even full-stop of exposure, depending upon the film. Of course you'll have to test a bit to find the combination that works best for you, but Rodinal is a great developer that will reward you with excellent results once you get yourself sorted out. Good luck, and have fun!
Strictly speaking, you don't need a stop bath, but it is a good idea to wash the film at least with water between the developer and the fixer- mostly to limit the amount of developer you get into your fixer, which will reduce it's effectiveness and life.
With most developers, it doesn't matter at all what brand of fix you use. Some developers, such as Diafine, call for no acid to be used at all- no acid stop bath, and an alkaline fixer. I don't know how hard and fast that rule is; certainly by keeping the pH alkaline throughout the process, washing is easier and uses less water. But beyond oddities like that, it's fine to use any fixer with any developer. Just use what fix you have- it'll be fine.
Rodinal is an excellent developer with most films. It generally shows more grain than many other developers- but it will also show somewhat greater sharpness. (Remember grain and sharpness are to some extent inversely proportionate.) Rodinal also often shows very long tonal curves, and can show really excellent edge effects, all of which are part of it's appeal. I think it gives nicer results when used at higher dilutions (which of course unfortunately means longer times). If you search, you'll find lots of threads discussing Rodinal used 1:100 with very long times, and this is worth trying, but the bottle recommends 1:25 or 1:50. My recommendation is to use 1:50 for most normal processing. Finally, Rodinal tends to be a somewhat speed-reducing developer (the hour(s) long stand and semi-stand development processes you may read about for pushing not-withstanding...). For normal use, I'd suggest giving your film and extra third-, half- or perhaps even full-stop of exposure, depending upon the film. Of course you'll have to test a bit to find the combination that works best for you, but Rodinal is a great developer that will reward you with excellent results once you get yourself sorted out. Good luck, and have fun!
schow
Well-known
Truly some terrific advice here!
Thanks to all.
Soon, I'll also be trying C-41 and E-6 too
RFF seems to promote self-reliance and community in a lot of us in terms of getting our own filmed processed and sharing our experiences. That's one of the main reasons I return here almost daily.
Thanks again
Sherm
Thanks to all.
Soon, I'll also be trying C-41 and E-6 too
RFF seems to promote self-reliance and community in a lot of us in terms of getting our own filmed processed and sharing our experiences. That's one of the main reasons I return here almost daily.
Thanks again
Sherm
mh2000
Well-known
I also stopped using Photoflo a couple years ago, setting in a still bath of distilled water seems to work better for me (Photoflo sometimes produces scum on negatives).
Like they say... great high actuance developer!
I just tried the stand developing and love the results! Tmax 100, 5+500ml and 1 hour... true speed maybe ISO 200 and very fine grain. Give it a try! If it works well with TMY-II it will be my new Rodinal workflow.
Like they say... great high actuance developer!
I just tried the stand developing and love the results! Tmax 100, 5+500ml and 1 hour... true speed maybe ISO 200 and very fine grain. Give it a try! If it works well with TMY-II it will be my new Rodinal workflow.
~martyn~
Member
He can't seem to find Rodinal anywhere
He can't seem to find Rodinal anywhere
I'm not clear where in the world you are, Melvin, but in the event that you're in the UK, both Silverprint and Retrophotographic sell Rodinal.
He can't seem to find Rodinal anywhere
I'm not clear where in the world you are, Melvin, but in the event that you're in the UK, both Silverprint and Retrophotographic sell Rodinal.
wallace
Well-known
Rodinal is also available under the name R09 ONE SHOT. 500ml are 9,00 Euro. Right now they even have a special offer on Rodinal (orig.) 2x500ml for 19,94 Euro instead of 29,98 Euro.
The German distributor Maco sells it to anywhere in the world.
Look here: http://macodirect.de/shot-500ml-p-1185.html
http://macodirect.de/index.php (scroll down)
wallace
The German distributor Maco sells it to anywhere in the world.
Look here: http://macodirect.de/shot-500ml-p-1185.html
http://macodirect.de/index.php (scroll down)
wallace
schow
Well-known
Well, guys, I went ahead and did it!
Here are just 2 photos from a roll of Tri-x I shot at iso1600. I followed the dev times from the massive dev. chart, which I believe where 1+50 at 18.5 minutes. I used a Bessa R3A with a Jupiter 8 shot from the hip, wide open.
I probably should have stuck with using Tri-x at 400 or even 800 given it was my first time with Rodinal, but the opportunity presented itself, and I took it!
I have to say, I like what I see. I'm not so keen as to immediately tell the differences between Rodinal and D-76 are with Tri-x, but all I care about is having fun right now!
Thanks for all the help, guys!
Sherm
Here are just 2 photos from a roll of Tri-x I shot at iso1600. I followed the dev times from the massive dev. chart, which I believe where 1+50 at 18.5 minutes. I used a Bessa R3A with a Jupiter 8 shot from the hip, wide open.
I probably should have stuck with using Tri-x at 400 or even 800 given it was my first time with Rodinal, but the opportunity presented itself, and I took it!
I have to say, I like what I see. I'm not so keen as to immediately tell the differences between Rodinal and D-76 are with Tri-x, but all I care about is having fun right now!
Thanks for all the help, guys!
Sherm
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Make an 11 X 14 print from a D-76 negative and another from a Rodinal negative and you should see the difference in the grain. The Rodinal print will have much sharper grain and probably appear a bit grainier.
schow
Well-known
Hi Al,
That's what I've read, and I should have wrote that I have not yet been able to confirm these observations on my own. I could do a bit of testing on my own, but I'm too busy having fun for "tests"!
That's what I've read, and I should have wrote that I have not yet been able to confirm these observations on my own. I could do a bit of testing on my own, but I'm too busy having fun for "tests"!