Adobe; that does it!

[Spoks]

Most pharmaceuticals.

You can buy a pallet of painkillers for a price reduction of 5.000 Euros on a Porsche 911. We pay our health care costs over the tax bill. Most medicines are subsidized, one way or the other, over the tax bill. Then it is difficult to compare what 'the real' price is.

 

[wgerrard]

It's valid to question extreme differences in software pricing from one country to the next. The shipping costs for the raw material -- data -- are essentially zero. If the CD/DVD is pressed locally, it's difficult to imagine a reason for the differences.

It's worth noting that the $299 Adobe targets only registered Photoshop Elements owners. It's not a Photoshop upgrade offer. And, that Adobe's price for PS in the U.S. is $699, while the price to Norway is, at today's rate, $1094 ex VAT; the Euro price seems to be a bit over $1300 in many locations; the UK price ex VAT is $826 while the price next door in Ireland is $913 ex VAT.

I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind those variations.

 

[ferider]

The OPs numbers are wrong. Biggest mark-up is 66 percent, see here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/techno...7/Adobe_CS4_Another_example_of_ripoff_Britain, with an average of around 30%.

Software markup from the US to the outside is typical, and worse to Japan than to Europe. But, speaking from the other side of the fence (I'm not with Adobe ...), support is more expensive.

Why they do it ? Because they can. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Amazed how people are ready to spend multiple thousands of dollars on (partially used) hardware, Leicas, MF cameras, scanners and the like, and do not recognize that software needs to be engineered as well.

Roland.

 

[tic]

I think its quite decent of Adobe to provide most of the functionality needed by the great majority of people in the Elements version at a reasonable price. I've been using it for a few years and I am only now starting to see if CS4 might be for me. I do understand that there are situations when elements is not enough, even when not used in a professional context, but then again, there are times when an M9 would be better to have then a P&S camera too... This is not to justify great price differences between the US and EU though.

Also, there are other alternatives as already pointed out. How does the freeware GIMP compare to CS4 and Elements? (I don't know the answer.)

 

[apconan]

You have got to be kidding me! People on this forum buy the most expensive cameras and lenses in the world (excluding Hassy's) and your going to complain about a few dollars for a software program. If you do not want to pay the price use something else, there are many available including some supplied from your camera manufacture. Please forgive me for such an outburst, but I live on a fixed income, drool after an M8 or M9 and a few lenses, but realize that unless I hit the lottery it is an impossible dream. I am thankful for my Nikon D3OO and Capture NX.

Thank you.

To Spoks: did you even read what Pickett and others have said? Your numbers are wrong anyways, so not only are you a whiner, you're a wrong whiner. I'm sure your precious Facebook groups will change the world.

 

[wgerrard]

Amazed how people are ready to spend multiple thousands of dollars on (partially used) hardware, Leicas, MF cameras, scanners and the like, and do not recognize that software needs to be engineered as well.

Roland.

True, but once the code is finalized, there is no cost for assembly, testing, shipping, etc. You pull it down from a server and burn DVD's. You can't really compare the costs of distributing and selling software with those of hardware.

As I alluded to earlier, I know that Microsoft products available in the UK when I was there -- the mid-1990's -- were pressed in Ireland, yet sold for almost twice their U.S. price. If you asked the shop about it, they'd say it cost a lot to ship the product from the States.

 

[Olsen]

It's valid to question extreme differences in software pricing from one country to the next. The shipping costs for the raw material -- data -- are essentially zero. If the CD/DVD is pressed locally, it's difficult to imagine a reason for the differences.

It's worth noting that the $299 Adobe targets only registered Photoshop Elements owners. It's not a Photoshop upgrade offer. And, that Adobe's price for PS in the U.S. is $699, while the price to Norway is, at today's rate, $1094 ex VAT; the Euro price seems to be a bit over $1300 in many locations; the UK price ex VAT is $826 while the price next door in Ireland is $913 ex VAT.

I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind those variations.

Thanks for the thorough update.

There is no reason there should be any major unexplainable price differences anymore! (Sure, currency variations happen).

I follow prices of Canon cameras, lenses etc. Canon prices their products at about the same level all over the world. In those few instances I have registered a major difference the prices are rather lower in countries with a high VAT (Europe!). The few instances I check Nikon prices it seems to follow the same patern.

Adobe should do the same: Try to have the same price of their products all over the world. The CS4 should cost the same all over the world! With particularly 'consumer products', directed towards ordinary consumers that are obliged to pay a hefty sales tax (VAT), they should try to keep a lower price in these markets to see to that the VAT itself gets as low as possible.

 

[wgerrard]

How does the freeware GIMP compare to CS4 and Elements? (I don't know the answer.)

Elements is a very good product at a very good price. It lacks some of the capabilities of full PS, but workarounds are often available on the web and elsewhere.

GIMP is capable, with many, but not all, of the capabilities of PS. The interface seems to annoy many people, especially experienced PS users.

Once you leave behind the world of tweaking photos, however, PS seems to be just about the only game in town for pros.

 

[wgerrard]

Thanks for the thorough update.

There is no reason there should be any major unexplainable price differences anymore! (Sure, currency variations happen)...Adobe should... Try to have the same price of their products all over the world. The CS4 should cost the same all over the world! With particularly 'consumer products', directed towards ordinary consumers that are obliged to pay a hefty sales tax (VAT), they should try to keep a lower price in these markets to see to that the VAT itself gets as low as possible.

Olsen, I would like to understand the reason behind the price differences, but I'm not ready to assume it's only simple greed. Other potential factors do exist. But, most of the conventional reasons behind high prices for imports, other than currency rates, do seem to not to apply to software.

 

[Olsen]

Olsen, I would like to understand the reason behind the price differences, but I'm not ready to assume it's only simple greed. Other potential factors do exist. But, most of the conventional reasons behind high prices for imports, other than currency rates, do seem to not to apply to software.

When Canon can keep equal prices internationally on their 5D II than Adobe should be in no less possition to do the same. I don't want 'an explanation'. I want lower prices! There is no reason why we should pay 30% more for such a product. Add 25% VAT on the 1,100 $ net price of a CS4 here in Norway and it costs ordinary consumers 1.375 $. I am sure most Americans would think twice about paying that much.

 

[Spoks]

Amazed how people are ready to spend multiple thousands of dollars on (partially used) hardware, Leicas, MF cameras, scanners and the like, and do not recognize that software needs to be engineered as well.

Roland.

But we do! We understand that a good product like CS4 should cost money. But we are not prepared to pay 33% more than other parts of the world.

 

[Spoks]

True, but I question the extent of those differences in English-speaking countries, at least. An upgrade or a bug fix that works in the U.S. and Canada ought to work just fine in the UK, Ireland, Australia, South Africa. Translation does add cost, but is that enough to generate a near-doubling of price in some Euro markets? I believe much of Adobe's serious tech support is sold as separate products.

We are talking here of 'English' versions of CS4. Translated version are even more expensive. Which means that they are hardly sold here in Norway at all.

 

[Al Patterson]

True, but once the code is finalized, there is no cost for assembly, testing, shipping, etc. You pull it down from a server and burn DVD's. You can't really compare the costs of distributing and selling software with those of hardware.

As I alluded to earlier, I know that Microsoft products available in the UK when I was there -- the mid-1990's -- were pressed in Ireland, yet sold for almost twice their U.S. price. If you asked the shop about it, they'd say it cost a lot to ship the product from the States.

No cost for testing and shipping? Yeah, I'd hire YOU as my accountant. We'd be in bankruptcy court PDQ...

:bang:

 

[ferider]

True, but once the code is finalized, there is no cost for assembly, testing, shipping, etc. You pull it down from a server and burn DVD's. You can't really compare the costs of distributing and selling software with those of hardware.

Manufacturing doesn't really impact the geography-dependent costs.

Support does. And for software, support is expensive. It includes software updates, phone support, remote marketing, etc. My wife had a problem with her Norton license the other day. She literally spent half a day on the phone and on the internet to get it fixed - a technically trivial issue. She spent more time than buying a new Norton copy would have cost.

Average support quality for many services in the US is lousy, compared to Europe, and worse, consumers are used to it. Ever played phone tag with PG&E or AT&T ? That's why support is cheaper here.

I used to work in a tiny Swiss software company. Like our competitors, we did have a 100% markup for Japan, and justifyably so, since we had traveling, local support and marketing overhead. The product was manufactured in Switzerland, and sent via ftp on release.


It's not trivial. We ourselves make the choice where we live. I live about 30 miles away from Adobe. House prices here are probably twice (?) the equivalent house prices in Oslo. Taxes are completely different. And so is health care, unemployment insurance and other benefits. Warrantee laws are different. Why should product prices be the same across all geographies ? Just because the product can be had via an internet connection ?

BTW, Nikon and Canon camera prices are different when you compare grey vs. US market prices. And German cars are more expensive in the US than in Germany, even when built in the US. Also, they are usually configured differently. Etc.

We're talking about Adobe, not AIG.

Roland.

 

[wgerrard]

No cost for testing and shipping? Yeah, I'd hire YOU as my accountant. We'd be in bankruptcy court PDQ...

i'll grant you local shipping, i.e., from a local pressing shop, but I won't grant international shipping costs unless the finished cellophane-wrapped box is actually shipped internationally. As I said, UK buyers not so long ago were told Microsoft prices were high because they were flown in from the U.S., when, in truth, they were trucked in from Ireland.

And, as I mentioned above, Adobe offers download as a delivery option. Meaning, no shipping costs at all.

As for testing, do we know for a fact that PS is subject to a different testing regime for the European market? Is there a reason why my American copy of PS would develop problems if I moved to Europe?

Do we know exactly how different is the product sold in Europe?

 

[wgerrard]

Manufacturing doesn't really impact the geography-dependent costs.

Support does. And for software, support is expensive. It includes software updates, phone support, remote marketing, etc. My wife had a problem with her Norton license the other day. She literally spent half a day on the phone and on the internet to get it fixed - a technically trivial issue. She spent more time than buying a new Norton copy would have cost.

Average support quality for many services in the US is lousy, compared to Europe, and worse, consumers are used to it. Ever played phone tag with PG&E or AT&T ? That's why support is cheaper here.

I used to work in a tiny Swiss software company. Like our competitors, we did have a 100% markup for Japan, and justifyably so, since we had traveling, local support and marketing overhead. The product was manufactured in Switzerland, and sent via ftp on release.


It's not trivial. We ourselves make the choice where we live. I live about 30 miles away from Adobe. House prices here are probably twice (?) the equivalent house prices in Oslo. Taxes are completely different. And so is health care, unemployment insurance and other benefits. Warrantee laws are different. Why should product prices be the same across all geographies ? Just because the product can be had via an internet connection ?

BTW, Nikon and Canon camera prices are different when you compare grey vs. US market prices. And German cars are more expensive in the US than in Germany, even when built in the US. Also, they are usually configured differently. Etc.

We're talking about Adobe, not AIG.

Roland.

Agree, those are all legitimate reasons for price differences. Certainly better than just asserting "because we can".

And, as any American who even occasionally visits Europe knows, it's a more expensive place to live. Or, at least, shop. The different levels of support provided by tax dollars makes direct comparisons tricky.

These things work both ways, too. I have a fair number of books purchased in the UK that were also published in the U.S. The U.S. version, after the currency conversion, is usually considerably less expensive.

Used camera equipment also seems to be noticeably more expensive from the online venues of European businesses like Leicashop.

Customer support certainly sucks in the U.S., pretty much across the board. People read canned answers from a canned script. Unless I buy a package, Adobe support seems to be limited. I once posted a question on their site and got a response back a month later. Nothing, however, can compare to the agony of customer service at my local cable outfit.

 

[sjw617]

Maybe the cost of losing all those trucks in the Irish Sea.
Download difference is most likely the cost difference in support and tariffs. If a product is 'made' in the US isn't it still imported by a country to be downloaded. Import tariffs would apply and be different for EU and non EU countries.

Steve

 

[NickTrop]

French wine costs more to buy in the US than it does in France... The outrage!

 

[gnarayan]

I am sure most Americans would think twice about paying that much.

Which is probably why they don't.

Price is what the market will pay and if the European market is willing to pay more than the American one, then you can't really blame Adobe for taking advantage of it. Any more than you can blame Leica for instance for charging what they do for an M.

Convince all of Europe not to buy at this price and then you might get change. Or contribute to making GIMP better.

 

[martin s]

French wine costs more to buy in the US than it does in France... The outrage!

A few weird comparisons going on here, but this one takes the cake. You don't see the difference between wine and software?

martin