Advice on Artistic Nudes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Stephanie Brim

Mental Experimental.
Local time
10:24 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
2,859
Location
Iowa
Mechanics lights? Natural light? Incandescent bulbs? What is the best way to light nudes?

Film-wise, I'm looking to use some low grain and some higher grain...I'm really just wanting to experiment. I may sell these as prints, though, so I'd like people to keep that in mind as well. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, focusing: considering that these will be self portraits (due to no model), what would be the best way to make sure I'm focused correctly? I know that there will be a lot of trial and error in this. Someone mentioned a mirror in the other thread. Can you be more verbose as to how that would work?

This will be a large project for me. It will also be a milestone: I've been wanting to do this for two years and I now feel that I have rangefinder focusing down enough to do it. So any advice would be appreciated. 🙂
 
Stephanie Brim said:
what would be the best way to make sure I'm focused correctly?

Start by ignoring the nudlety. Experiment with lining yourself up. I tried to do this for a camera club and it's a PITA. Expect to run through a few rolls of film to get the posing, lighting and focus correct.

Focussing is OK, place the tripod in the camera position. Stand in the posing position holding the camera, focus on the tripod head. Put camera onto tripod, and re-pose yourself. Make sure you have plenty of DOF. f/5.6 is good.

Now you'll have to choose a location where you are outlined with something like a door. That will tell you the frame limits. So with the focussed camera on the tripod check out what is at the edge of the frame and remember it (e.g. 6" left of the door frame over to the wall, no higher than the picture frame...).

Once in the posed position you can either use the self timer or a cable. Both have pros & cons. Timer is OK but you may knock the camera out of position when setting it off. Cable you'll need to hide it. Using a cable to set off a short timer would be the best because you can pose, press the button, throw away the cable, wait.

For light, I don't get along with flash personally. You can buy 500W work lights very cheaply but they run hot and are not 'white'. Which is OK for B&W. I much prefer window light. Experiment with blinds if you have some. Experiment with letting light in through a partly open door from the next room (at night). Using existing light will mean long shutter speeds. Don't let them get too long if you want lots of sharpness. You know, or will find out how long you can pose for. Awkward poses will need to be for shorter times. Relaxed poses 1 second should be OK.

For backgrounds, drape a sheet. Peg it or tape it to something. Anything out-of-frame doesn't matter so make a mess.

That's as far as I've got so far.

Thanks,
James
 
On the technical side: this may not be what you are looking for but this is what I would use:
Minolta CLE with infrared remote release. Advancing the film is still manual ofcourse. And, with a CLE you can use the increadible flash system as well. For full lighting or just a little extra highlight.

But then again, a CLE is not a P. And getting another camera will not get you to your first objective.

cheers, Rob.
 
Whenever I try self portraits and want a fairly shallow depth of field, I think of exactly how I want to pose, and then I place something that I can focus on directly where I want the plane of focus to be. One thing I have tried is hanging a piece of string from the ceiling, focusing on the string and then placing my eyes directly even with string, removing the string, and then triggering the shutter (whether a bulb, long cable release, self timer etc). If you place the string with sticky tack or silly putty, it is easy to remove it very quickly and place it anywhere. I have used many other things as well. On a couch or bed, pillows with something on top of them can approximate the focus pretty easily...use what you have at hand...a book, a stuffed animal, a ferret, whatever. As long as it stays still (I guess that rules out the ferret), and you can toss it out of the way as you run to assume the pose, you should be fine.
 
Put the camera on tripod then level it and lock it down. Focus is obtained via tape measure from the film plane mark. The mirror is just to see how the light and pose look; you're shooting these solo so you need a reference. (It would be infinately easier to enlist the help of a friend.) Stick with natural light if possible; window light + white reflectors is always nice.
 
I was going to post this on your other thread but it's closed!
Okay, the real problem with shooting yourself (aside from the mess it leaves) is not focusing, but framing. You need to back up enough to be sure you actually appear in the negatives; then it's still virtually impossible to compose in the camera, so you end up with a lot of negative to crop. So my advice is still to find an assistant to shoot the film. If you're relaxed enough to appear in the photos you should be relaxed enough to have some other person there.
 
I was thinking as well that framing would be the most difficult part. For that a digital camera would be ultimately suited, though I know that will be (for now) out of the question.

Be sure to mark your position so that, when you get framing right, you can return to the exact spot.
 
Stephanie, I don't know you from a random chai wallah in Madras.

And yet I think I have you pegged pretty well. I sure hope I'm wrong, but all indications point otherwise. Please bear with me through this post, eventually you will see my point.

I grew up in a small town. A crushingly boring place filled with very small minds and little to no future for most of the population. Somehow, that town has pulled a miracle out of its bum, and become the jewel of the wine industry. But 15 years ago, it was still a crushingly boring town with nary a big box store in sight until Walmart showed up. 10,000 people attended the grand opening, because, hell, there wasn't anyplace else to be. Through a very unique concoction of total chaos and incredibly bad planning, somehow enough wrongs equaled each other for the town to pull off a miracle and become a half-way interesting place these days. That is a new development, and when I was growing up, it was a craphole.

Some people from that town have made big names for themselves. Most people have not...many of them are still in that town, and are living crushingly boring lives that most people would not be able to take without a steady stream of prozac and other mind altering chemicals.

The town almost crushed me...I come from a family of professional musicians, world caliber musicians back to the 16th century. My mother married another musician who happened to live in that small town, even though their work was an hour away in Portland, where I live, for the time being. I had a mitigating influence on my life, which was Portland, my grandparents, and general aspirations of things intellectual. Books were a big help to me, as those days were largely before the internet. I spent a lot of time in libraries and in front of books...I developed a vivid imagination, which was a big help.

One friend of mine growing up is now well on his way to being a billionare. Another friend went to USC film school, where I lost touch with him. There are a few people who made names for themselves in other pursuits...all of them had mitigating influences on their lives. Either their parents were well employed and cosmopolitan, or they had friends and family in bigger places in the world. If nothing else, the successful people had things like books and films to pull them out of the mud...and yet one more help was that Portland was only an hour away.

There were a lot of small town dreamers in that town though. People with little to no interest in the outside world, and specifically little to no interest in comparing themselves honestly to people in the outside world. They saw themselves as big big fish, but they didn't realize that the pond they were swimming in was just a pitiful puddle in the dirty backwash of the rest of the world.

I heard things from people like "I don't need to know art history to become a painter." or "I don't need to read novels to be a writer." Or even more comically "I am a better writer than that guy!" even though they had never published anything.

Note books, diaries and secret confessionals do not a great artist make.

Likewise, deciding to be a great artist before one has even put brush to canvas is a little like saying you will discover the West Indies before you've invented a boat.

The small town dreamers are simultaneously aware that they are nobodies, and at the same time they equate themselves with the "fancy schmancy" people in big cities. They like to think that they can take shortcuts. They like to think that they will be able to achieve things that nobody has ever achieved before, just because their mother told them once that they were talented.

The sad reality of life is that for most people, there are only very few shortcuts. People like Kevin Federline and Clay Aiken aside, there is no substitute for education, careful thought, and experience. One does not put the cart before the horse, and the wheel has already been refined to a level that is quite adequate.

You have a habbit of coming onto this forum and making big claims, and taking big assumptions. There is more than enough fodder for one to doubt your motives, but taking things as they may be, and playing devil's advocate, maybe you are for real and just naive.

You want to sell your nude prints. You have never taken nude self-portraits, but you want to sell them. Maybe you've shot a few self portraits, and maybe they are "good" to your eye. Have you ever spent long hard hours in the library really analyzing what made pictures of the great photographers great? Have you ever figured out why Mapplethorpe was such a great photographer, despite the disgusting subjects he depicted in many of his photographs? Have you ever spent time in front of a book on Renoir, and asked yourself "why?"

You ask about film, cameras, flash, lighting, etc. etc. etc. Yet you have never even approached any of these things with anything but the slightest of discipline. Not to mention that you constaintly harrang about your lack of money. How will you afford the great ammounts of Pan F, Portra and whatchamahaveyou that you talk about. Have you ever mastered even one film? Have you ever shot more than 50 rolls of ANY FILM WHATSOEVER?

It takes a lot to be a great photographer. Everybody and their uncle thinks that they can pick up a camera and become a professional photographer. After all, that picture you took at the Grand Canyon last year sure looked good, why doesn't National Geographic call you up? Everybody thinks they can be a photographer, because nobody knows what it takes to be a photographer.

How many nudes have you looked at in your life, that were not gracing the screen of your computer? How many books have you asked your small town library to get through Interlibrary loan? Have you ever heard of the name Eikoh Hosoe? What was his ordeal anyway, life can't be that hard, it's just a basket of roses, right?


Stephanie, I know there is a big chance that my comments will just be deleted. I know that many people won't read them. I don't care. I only hope that for just a moment you will consider the things I say. In humanity there is great potential, and in any one human there lies great potential. Some people think there are shortcuts, some people don't take things seriously.

Trust me, I am guilty of many of the things I de facto accuse you of. I complain of a lack of money...I complain of a lack of chances....I complain of a lot of things. You know though, I firstly do it silently, and i look for a genuine solution. I don't want anybody's pity, and I don't want anybody's handout. I want to make a name for myself, and I want to enjoy life...but I know that life can be tough, and I know that there are few shortcuts available to most of us.

Trust me, there are two kinds of people in the world: those with talent, and those without.

I've been cursed my whole life with a talent for everything...anything I pick up, all of the sudden I become an expert. This means that I also love just about everything, and I can't decide what to do. More importantly, it means that my talent allows me to get by without work. The most important thing in life is not talent, but work, practice and discipline. I have met so many talented musicians that five years later sell insurance. Painters who end up working at coffe shops. Photographers who could blow your mind who end up checking peoples' shoe sizes. You have to work in life, and if you're talented, it just makes it a little easier.


If you want to do nude photographs, fine. I couldn't be bothered to give two shits about it. Just do it. Don't ask people about if you should do it to get out of depression. Don't ask people if they would buy your stupid prints. Don't even talk about it until you've grown up a little inside. Take your pictures, enjoy them. More importantly, GO TO THE LIBRARY. CRACK OPEN A REAL BOOK. Those places called libraries still contain quite abit of wisdom in them, and the opinions in those books are different than opinions on the internet in that they had to stand the added scrutiny of ACTUALLY BEING PUBLISHED.

All this goes for your cooking as well. Have you ever, in your entire life, even for one day, cooked in a restaurant? Perhaps you are like so many people in that you can cook half-way decent food that your mother says is the best she's ever eaten?

I've seen your blogs, I've seen your postings. You talk about organics, even though you don't really know much about them, and you don't know WHY people use them. You may have read some recipe books...you may have even stumbled upon some recipes. Instead of thinking about your culinary education and how horribly hard it will be to get one (and don't forget, it is no guarantee of good employment) you should go out, and cook in ANY restaurant.

I have two good friends who are TRAINED chefs de cuisine. I have another friend who graduated from Japanese cooking school, which is much more rigorous than American studies. All three friends are magnificent cooks, and all three had extensive experience cooking in restaurants. All three of them decided to throw their education in the trash, because they realized what their hours and salaries would be....cooking is not glamorous, it is not financially rewarding, it is not easy.

As with your nude studies....read a book. Go out and try it. LIVE A LITTLE.

Who gives two shits what film you're going to use...who cares which brand of pan you're going to use? Is that a Wusthoff, Henckels or Shun you're chopping that carrot with? IT DOES NOT MATTER because you've never done it before. By asking such questions, you become the very definition of a poseur. You are an imposter posing as an expert, although you have no experience what so ever.

Your creative process is artificial: you decide what you're going to do (without the benefit of hindsight through experience) and then you want to do it, and the simple willingness to do it tells you that you are qualified to do it. What makes you think that your as yet uncreated prints will ever be good enough to command money in competition to the work of professional photographers? There are always horny men willing to pay for photographs of naked women. That you should know, such things consume the internet. By selling your prints, you have equated yourself with Avedon, Mapplethorpe, Penn, Giacomelli......

An organic (and that goes for foodstuffs as well) would be to experiment, start small, evolve, grow, try new things, analyze your results. By all means ask for opinions on your work, but don't let those opinions FORM your work, otherwise your development is artificial and stunted....you will become another self-fulfilled flash in the pan.

Humanity is a beautiful, amazing thing. But great achievements have always come when individual humans realized their actual limitations and tried to overcome them through pure creativity and the goddamned force of their own will. Have you ever wondered why Rembrandt chose brown?

Thus endeth the lesson, brought to you by one upon whom the lessons of life have been burned with red hot irons.
 
Stephanie, the question is not what will it take to accomplish this, but why would you want to put yourself through it? To do what you are proposing appears to me to be an exercise in frustration, regardless of the results. My experience is that most photographers of the human figure enjoy the interaction and collaboration with the model, and this is a very important part of the process. I suggest that you decide which you are: the photographer or the model. Find a photographer or model friend to collaborate with on this project. Better yet, find a photographer / model to work with and then you can pose as well as photograph each other. I believe that you will have a much more rewarding experience. Good luck however you choose to do it!
 
Hi,

OK here it goes, some advice:
polling for artistic advice will result only in mediocrity (or expressed differently: average without your personal stamp on the artwork).
You will have to test all options you consider important (and combinations thereof) and decide which options will allow you to get to the result you envision.
BTW there are probably books on how to get nude shots.
If on the other hand you are trying to sell portraits to please the customer (without any artistic vision) polling is the way to go. But I would not consider this art.
BTW cameras are tools and rangefinders might not be the best for the job.

Ciao

Joerg
 
WOW




bobofish, you leave me almost speechless. By the third paragraph I had stopped even caring about to who you were speaking, and was just lost in the truth of your words. I believe I have just found the cure for my own "poor poor me" days. Thank you.

scott
 
I wanted to post "PORNO!!! PORNO!!! PORNO!! I sayz Its PORNO!!!" in the voice of Fog Horn leg Horn,,, but mt wife told me I shouldn't...
 
Does anybody have a Nooky I want to take some pictures of my balls..

Please laugh before you delete this.

Thank you for your support.
Skinny
 
Guys. The entire point of this thread is to actually give me real advice. Please keep the fatherly advice out of it and in a PM. Thanks.

Also, bobofish, your sentiments are appreciated. But I *do* know what I'm doing and I *do* know why people eat organic food. So no more posts delving into why you think I shouldn't be doing this, okay? Made my decision and everything is now peachy keen. If I keep getting responses like that one I'll just not post the finished product here.
 
Try an SLR with this project, Stephanie. RF cameras aren't as useful for framing. With any RF, your estimate framing will be off for a number of reasons. With an SLR, your estimate framing may not be that off.

Good luck! 🙂
 
I'm planning to mark things off somehow for framing...put some things in the frame that wouldn't be obtrusive to the photography but that I could see to help me frame myself. I may try some of the traditional nude poses. Also, I'll have the help of the boyfriend who can tell me if things are focused correctly...but he's not that good at framing. Heh.
 
"If I keep getting responses like that one I'll just not post the finished product here."


And this is what its all about. Attention. For those of you actually taking this seriously and offering sound technical advice - I think your heart is in the right place but you are missing the the real purpose of this and many other like threads. The quote above speaks volumes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom