wew82
Newbie
Hey guys
Was wondering if the forum might be able to help advise me on purchasing my first 35mm rangefinder cam. I'm relatively well versed in DSLR/SLR cameras and lenses but my knowledge of rangefinders (and the merits of different brands/lenses etc) is fairly limited, though i'm finding the relative simplicity of the cameras increasingly appealing.
I have a loose criteria for what I'm looking for, and ideally I'd want to get the best quality camera and lenses for as cheap as possible (ideally under £500 second hand)
Here's what I'm looking for:
Something that takes a good eyecup and has a centred tripod mount (important for the bracket I use)
With good 85mm + 135mm lenses
Otherwise am pretty flexible to brands etc!
Would love to hear thoughts.
Was wondering if the forum might be able to help advise me on purchasing my first 35mm rangefinder cam. I'm relatively well versed in DSLR/SLR cameras and lenses but my knowledge of rangefinders (and the merits of different brands/lenses etc) is fairly limited, though i'm finding the relative simplicity of the cameras increasingly appealing.
I have a loose criteria for what I'm looking for, and ideally I'd want to get the best quality camera and lenses for as cheap as possible (ideally under £500 second hand)
Here's what I'm looking for:
Something that takes a good eyecup and has a centred tripod mount (important for the bracket I use)
With good 85mm + 135mm lenses
Otherwise am pretty flexible to brands etc!
Would love to hear thoughts.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Bessa T with "tele" rangefinder, FSU turret viewfinder. You'll have RF and VF suitable for tele lenses. You could get it under $300 in total.
Elmar LTM 90 4 with M adapter. Coated, not-trashed should be something like $90.
Can't tell you what for 135mm. I have seen some not expensive and not so old from Leica, but I forgot.
Elmar LTM 90 4 with M adapter. Coated, not-trashed should be something like $90.
Can't tell you what for 135mm. I have seen some not expensive and not so old from Leica, but I forgot.
mfogiel
Veteran
I'm afraid you got it completely wrong. Rangefinders excel in the shorter focal lengths. I would personally not waste my time on lenses longer than 75mm.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
If you prefer 90/135 lenses best bet stay with an SLR. There is an M6 with a .85 viewfinder that works well with the 90mm but even the 135mm lens is difficult. A rangefinder is designed to be carried and quick shooting. Yes, they all have tripod mounts. Under 500 pounds not much in Leica. You might try a Canon P but that would be with a 50mm lens.
FujiLove
Well-known
I have to agree with mfogiel...
I only have a 50mm lens for my M3, but it's perfect, and I don't think I'd want anything else. I couldn't imagine trying to frame and focus a 135mm lens on it.
I would stick to a small, high quality SLR if you want to use those sort of lengths. A good quality Olympus OM1 or OM2 with a recent full service would be perfect and may even be a bit smaller and lighter than equivalent rangefinder options.
I only have a 50mm lens for my M3, but it's perfect, and I don't think I'd want anything else. I couldn't imagine trying to frame and focus a 135mm lens on it.
I would stick to a small, high quality SLR if you want to use those sort of lengths. A good quality Olympus OM1 or OM2 with a recent full service would be perfect and may even be a bit smaller and lighter than equivalent rangefinder options.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Learn more about what rangefinders are best at before spending $$. Best book on subject is written my Roger Hicks and his wife Francis, titled: Rangefinder. After you read it you will know if RF's are for you. Like others said, if telephoto's are what you want to shot then buy an SLR. No shame in that. Many fine choices. Older Nikon's (FE, FE2, FM, FM2, etc.) with the oh so sharp Nikkor 105/2.5 will serve you well. Best wishes
leicapixie
Well-known
I suggest more reading and thinking!
RF are great for 5' to 20'.
You don't need "lots of lenses".
A normal-50mm or a wide-35mm.
Long lenses best on a SLR.
Centre tripod on an M, requires additional plate or a grip.
The RFDR is really an "in hand user"..
Additional finders for some lenses is not for me.
I use built in frames only.
The joy is going basic, not carrying a bag of lenses and accessories!
Additional lens in pouch, spare rolls of film in plastic bag.
The Leica M 3,M2, M4, M6 are the best.
The M5 is bigger and there are issues with battery.
Easily corrected.
Not all repair and service folk enjoy working on M5.
I know nothing of the latest Film "M"'s. MA,MP.
RF are great for 5' to 20'.
You don't need "lots of lenses".
A normal-50mm or a wide-35mm.
Long lenses best on a SLR.
Centre tripod on an M, requires additional plate or a grip.
The RFDR is really an "in hand user"..
Additional finders for some lenses is not for me.
I use built in frames only.
The joy is going basic, not carrying a bag of lenses and accessories!
Additional lens in pouch, spare rolls of film in plastic bag.
The Leica M 3,M2, M4, M6 are the best.
The M5 is bigger and there are issues with battery.
Easily corrected.
Not all repair and service folk enjoy working on M5.
I know nothing of the latest Film "M"'s. MA,MP.
Last edited:
Brian Legge
Veteran
Given the low budget, I'd consider a later Canon rangefinder and either Canon or Voigtlander screw mount lenses.
You could pick up a Canon 7, Canon 135/3.5 and CV 75/2.5 (or CV 90/3.5 or Canon 85 Or Nikkor 85/2) and be somewhat close to your budget. The lenses are quality and could be used on other bodies if you decide that you like rangefinder shooting.
You could pick up a Canon 7, Canon 135/3.5 and CV 75/2.5 (or CV 90/3.5 or Canon 85 Or Nikkor 85/2) and be somewhat close to your budget. The lenses are quality and could be used on other bodies if you decide that you like rangefinder shooting.
aizan
Veteran
a centered tripod mount pretty much narrows your options down to contax and nikon rangefinders. voigtlander made lenses in these mounts for a while.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
You've asked a very simple question with a long (boring) but not too complex answer.
There are a lot of RF's available and with your budget all secondhand and elderly; so beware. Top quality lenses will be out of you budget limit completely but the middling ones are interesting and the dirt cheap ones are also interesting.
You have another decision to make and that is to go for a camera with built in metering, but here the cost of one could be outside your budget, even without a lens. BTW, I can't comment on the Japanese made Voigtländer, as I've neither owned nor used one.
Secondly, with range finders the viewfinder is usually an accessory, apart from M series Leicas and, I think, Voigtländers. So using the accessory shoe and blocking flash hot shoe use and metering.
Leica M5, M6 and M7 have viewfinders for 90 and 135mm and metering but your budget won't cover one (even without a lens) apart from an ebay bargain but overhauling one might cost 2 to 300 pounds - that was another warning btw.
Looking at the (dirt) cheap ones you could go for an elderly Russian copy of a Contax; meaning the Kiev 2a or 4a both cheap, and cheap to repair (in Russia by mail order). They need hand held meters and external view finders but both are cheap. The lenses are USSR copies of the 30's Contax ones but up dated a little and coated. Many see this as a good introduction to RF's.
There's also two other old USSR cameras I would suggest, the FED 2, which is an old fashion work horse. It needs external VF's and meters but these are (dirt) cheap. There's also the Zorki 6 which is best described as the RF that the Zenit SLR was developed from (and it has a lever film winder). Again, many see these as a good introduction to RF's. Like the Kiev they are also interesting to use.
BTW, I don't agree about the 90 and 135mm lenses, it's true that the 35 and 50's work better but I've no problems with my 90mm lenses and I've been using them for decades... Drop the 135mm from your list and you could pick up the Leica M2 from a dealer and a 90mm lens at about your budget level. The M2's VF covers 90mm but you'll need a meter. Try ffordes.com for usually guaranteed Leica's and more; I'm happy to recommend them.
Good luck.
Regards, David
You've asked a very simple question with a long (boring) but not too complex answer.
There are a lot of RF's available and with your budget all secondhand and elderly; so beware. Top quality lenses will be out of you budget limit completely but the middling ones are interesting and the dirt cheap ones are also interesting.
You have another decision to make and that is to go for a camera with built in metering, but here the cost of one could be outside your budget, even without a lens. BTW, I can't comment on the Japanese made Voigtländer, as I've neither owned nor used one.
Secondly, with range finders the viewfinder is usually an accessory, apart from M series Leicas and, I think, Voigtländers. So using the accessory shoe and blocking flash hot shoe use and metering.
Leica M5, M6 and M7 have viewfinders for 90 and 135mm and metering but your budget won't cover one (even without a lens) apart from an ebay bargain but overhauling one might cost 2 to 300 pounds - that was another warning btw.
Looking at the (dirt) cheap ones you could go for an elderly Russian copy of a Contax; meaning the Kiev 2a or 4a both cheap, and cheap to repair (in Russia by mail order). They need hand held meters and external view finders but both are cheap. The lenses are USSR copies of the 30's Contax ones but up dated a little and coated. Many see this as a good introduction to RF's.
There's also two other old USSR cameras I would suggest, the FED 2, which is an old fashion work horse. It needs external VF's and meters but these are (dirt) cheap. There's also the Zorki 6 which is best described as the RF that the Zenit SLR was developed from (and it has a lever film winder). Again, many see these as a good introduction to RF's. Like the Kiev they are also interesting to use.
BTW, I don't agree about the 90 and 135mm lenses, it's true that the 35 and 50's work better but I've no problems with my 90mm lenses and I've been using them for decades... Drop the 135mm from your list and you could pick up the Leica M2 from a dealer and a 90mm lens at about your budget level. The M2's VF covers 90mm but you'll need a meter. Try ffordes.com for usually guaranteed Leica's and more; I'm happy to recommend them.
Good luck.
Regards, David
uhoh7
Veteran
I agree the forte of RF is 50 and wider, but I use 90 and 135 all the time 
In fact many of the most famous RF images are from 135, by DDD.
L1042234 by unoh7, 135/2.8
wide open and focus is fine This Mandler 135 is *** pooed by most, but though I also have the 135 APO, it's a tie for which I like best.
Also as you guys know those Canon 135/3.5 lenses are 90USD tops.
I think for digital, a 2000USD budget would get you m8 and 3 or four lenses.
In fact many of the most famous RF images are from 135, by DDD.
L1042234 by unoh7, 135/2.8
wide open and focus is fine
This Mandler 135 is *** pooed by most, but though I also have the 135 APO, it's a tie for which I like best. Also as you guys know those Canon 135/3.5 lenses are 90USD tops.
I think for digital, a 2000USD budget would get you m8 and 3 or four lenses.
gb hill
Veteran
Rf with long lenses on a tripod vs a SLR on a tripod using long lenses like an 85 to 135. You can forget simplicity in focusing the Rf over the slr. You will quickly become frustrated with the Rf camera.
Rf camera's excell using 50's & wider lenses. At least in my opinion of using a Rf camera.
lonemantis
Well-known
Not to provide an unhelpful answer, but I think an RF is probably the worst choice the for this type of shooting. Even with a high quality camera like a Leica M, the framelines are only going to show you around 85% of the image you're getting on film. I say "around", because the percentage of error changes at different focus distances, and varies even more with lenses longer than 50mm.
The other issue is composing with depth of field on longer lenses. RFs will only show you an aerial image, where everything is in focus. This is fine for short lenses, but it's an exercise in pure masochism to try and compensate for very shallow DOF you can't see - unless you want to check your focus scale for every single shot.
The fact that you're looking for something with a centrered tripod socket and longer lenses implies that you'll be using a tripod for very precise compositions. What are you looking to shoot with it?
The other issue is composing with depth of field on longer lenses. RFs will only show you an aerial image, where everything is in focus. This is fine for short lenses, but it's an exercise in pure masochism to try and compensate for very shallow DOF you can't see - unless you want to check your focus scale for every single shot.
The fact that you're looking for something with a centrered tripod socket and longer lenses implies that you'll be using a tripod for very precise compositions. What are you looking to shoot with it?
David Hughes
David Hughes
Oops
Oops
Sorry, I missed the bit about the tripod bush being central.
On the Leica M2 and all the others it's at the end of the base plate under the spool; one exception the Kievs which are slightly off the lens axis.
But, the Leica M2 - and perhaps all the other M's - have an accessory that screws in underneath and gives you a centralised tripod bush and an extra accessory shoe on a bracket meant for a flash gun. Its part code CTOOM and there's a lot of them on eaby usually.
If anyone is thinking about the screw thread Leicas then a camera cradle was made for them with an axial bush by R G Lewis, again they turn up on ebay quite often.
Regards, David
Oops
Sorry, I missed the bit about the tripod bush being central.
On the Leica M2 and all the others it's at the end of the base plate under the spool; one exception the Kievs which are slightly off the lens axis.
But, the Leica M2 - and perhaps all the other M's - have an accessory that screws in underneath and gives you a centralised tripod bush and an extra accessory shoe on a bracket meant for a flash gun. Its part code CTOOM and there's a lot of them on eaby usually.
If anyone is thinking about the screw thread Leicas then a camera cradle was made for them with an axial bush by R G Lewis, again they turn up on ebay quite often.
Regards, David
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Contrary to popular myth and some of the advice here, you CAN shoot anything you need to with a rangefinder camera and the right accessories. But, that said, rangefinder cameras do excel in some areas and it can be a little more complex making one do the things that they're not as good at.
My question is, what do you shoot? What kind of work are you going to be doing with the camera? Answering that question will help us better answering your questions.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Nikon S2 or SP with a 10.5cm lens. Don't listen to naysayers about what rangefinders are best at. Find out for yourself. This above combo is just about unbeatable also. The 8.5cm lens is great but harder to find. The 13.5cm lenses for Nikon S mount are good and very cheap. Get the most recent versions with black focusing barrels for better coating and probably a decade less use. They are slightly lighter as well.
The 1:1 finder of the Nikon rangefinders is great for longer lenses and the focusing is nice as you don't have to squint the other eye.
Nikon rangefinders (and SP then an S2) and their fantastic lenses, were what ultimately pulled me away from over a decade of daily Leica use. I just couldn't justify the expense when I could get the performance I wanted from a much less expensive lens on a camera I liked actually more than the Leica M. Granted, I still have a Leica M4 but for sentimental reasons. I don't shoot it much at all, preferring my Nikon F2.
If you grab an SP and a couple lenses, try them out. If you don't like them, you will easily recoup your expenditure should you decide to sell them.
Phil Forrest
The 1:1 finder of the Nikon rangefinders is great for longer lenses and the focusing is nice as you don't have to squint the other eye.
Nikon rangefinders (and SP then an S2) and their fantastic lenses, were what ultimately pulled me away from over a decade of daily Leica use. I just couldn't justify the expense when I could get the performance I wanted from a much less expensive lens on a camera I liked actually more than the Leica M. Granted, I still have a Leica M4 but for sentimental reasons. I don't shoot it much at all, preferring my Nikon F2.
If you grab an SP and a couple lenses, try them out. If you don't like them, you will easily recoup your expenditure should you decide to sell them.
Phil Forrest
Try a fixed lens RF first to see if you enjoy working with the RF system...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I second this motion! Instead of sinking money in a system you may dislike, just purchase a fixed-lens camera and see if you like it. There are several cameras to choose from, that are all metered and trusted. AND, better yet, not terribly expensive. The Canonet 17 QL-III comes to mind, followed by the Konica S2, Yashicas and Minoltas too. There are websites dedicated to almost all of these cameras (I almost forgot the Olympus), and you can learn a lot about them by spending some time reading. In fact, most of us, rangefinder users, began with one of these cameras and slowly migrated into others, more, let's say, "hardcore" rangefinder-ish.
Good luck shopping!
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Also a good one to play with; I mean research, the Konica C35
A minor point, "Spares or Repairs" versions are due to the lens appearing to come loose and wobble. It's just a matter of a simple fix that any technician can do very cheaply and - of course - you get the benefit of everything else being checked at the same time. So a cheap camera and a cheap repair results in a good usable RF. Not to be confused with the larger C35 AF which is not a RF.
BTW, 38mm f/2.8 lens and P mode all the time. Needs a mercury battery but that's no problem; mine was recalibrated.
Regards, David
Also a good one to play with; I mean research, the Konica C35
A minor point, "Spares or Repairs" versions are due to the lens appearing to come loose and wobble. It's just a matter of a simple fix that any technician can do very cheaply and - of course - you get the benefit of everything else being checked at the same time. So a cheap camera and a cheap repair results in a good usable RF. Not to be confused with the larger C35 AF which is not a RF.
BTW, 38mm f/2.8 lens and P mode all the time. Needs a mercury battery but that's no problem; mine was recalibrated.
Regards, David
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
A fixed lens rangefinder can be a good start.
https://www.cameraquest.com/com35s.htm
Here is a link with introductions of some nice models.
I personally don't shoot longer-than-50mm lenses on RFs.
https://www.cameraquest.com/com35s.htm
Here is a link with introductions of some nice models.
I personally don't shoot longer-than-50mm lenses on RFs.