TJV
Well-known
Hi all.
I've decided it's time that I can no longer trust my local labs and need to process my own C41 and E6 film.
I've been looking at the Jobo processors on the net and people seem to recommend the CPP2 unit over the CPE2 because of its better thermometer, stable temp control, and 6 chemical tanks over 3. B&H states that the CPP2 is no longer in production but the do still sell the CPE2.
Can anyone here vouch for the quality of the two units and how they compare in actual use for film processing? What are peoples thoughts on the two in terms of the above mentioned differences and relevance to consistent results. Is the CPP2 worth the extra?
I might eventually get into my own C-Type printing but from what I gather both will do a good job.
I live in New Zealand and I can't find anyone who actually sells Jobo gear here so will have to source from B&H or ebay. Chemicals, on the other hand, are easy enough to come by.
Thanks.
Tim
I've decided it's time that I can no longer trust my local labs and need to process my own C41 and E6 film.
I've been looking at the Jobo processors on the net and people seem to recommend the CPP2 unit over the CPE2 because of its better thermometer, stable temp control, and 6 chemical tanks over 3. B&H states that the CPP2 is no longer in production but the do still sell the CPE2.
Can anyone here vouch for the quality of the two units and how they compare in actual use for film processing? What are peoples thoughts on the two in terms of the above mentioned differences and relevance to consistent results. Is the CPP2 worth the extra?
I might eventually get into my own C-Type printing but from what I gather both will do a good job.
I live in New Zealand and I can't find anyone who actually sells Jobo gear here so will have to source from B&H or ebay. Chemicals, on the other hand, are easy enough to come by.
Thanks.
Tim
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Tim,
The CPE-2 works fine for me, and has done for 7 years or so. I pre-heat the drum well (dry) and put the chemicals in at 40 degrees, not 38. Then, when they come out, they are at 36, so the average is 38. This may seem casual but it works as long as you are consistent. I find that 7' first dev (in Tetenal 3-4 bath) works well for Kodak, 8' for Fuji.
Cheers,
R.
The CPE-2 works fine for me, and has done for 7 years or so. I pre-heat the drum well (dry) and put the chemicals in at 40 degrees, not 38. Then, when they come out, they are at 36, so the average is 38. This may seem casual but it works as long as you are consistent. I find that 7' first dev (in Tetenal 3-4 bath) works well for Kodak, 8' for Fuji.
Cheers,
R.
Borghesia
Well-known
I like the simplicity of the Jobo TBE boxes for C41. The dev. times are very short, so I stir the tank myself. Think of that option to, whilst the TBE is small, cheap and low profile. The most important device for C41 E6 dev. is a precise thermomether, get a digital one.
TJV
Well-known
Thanks Roger. So you reckon Fuji times (I'm assuming you're meaning C41 process,) are longer than Kodak times for best results?
As for pre-heating the drum, would it be wise to pre-soak the film inside the drum with water at the desired temp? I've often done that with black and white processing and never had any problems.
Also, do you do much E6 work? Is E6 easier or harder to get right compared to C41? I prefer shooting E6 because it seems to scan better and I have been printing everything with a Epson 7800 of late. The results have been fantastic but I also appreciate the latitude of C41 film and if I set up my color enlarger and process RA4 paper with the Jobo I imagine it'd be more "rewarding." I love working in the darkroom.
TJV
Well-known
Also, Roger, have you put a water circulation pump in your Jobo bath? I read everywhere that it needs something to circulate the water to keep it consistent.
Tim
Tim
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Tim,
No, there's no water circulation; the rolling of the drum, plus convection, works fine for me.
The figures I gave were for E6: that's what I do most of. C41 is fine too.
I don't pre-soak, just pre-heat the drum, spools and films dry. I let the thing warm up for at least an hour to stabilize; preferably two. Drum pre-heat is 10 minutes.
Finally, I'll totally disagree with Borghesia on thermometers. Use a master/slave set, calibrating the slave to the master. My masters are two lab Brannan mercury thermometers agreeing to 0.1 degrees C. Calibrate digi or dial to these, checking frequently. The big thing about twin mercury is that you can see if something has gone wrong. Digi or dial, you never know.
Cheers,
R.
No, there's no water circulation; the rolling of the drum, plus convection, works fine for me.
The figures I gave were for E6: that's what I do most of. C41 is fine too.
I don't pre-soak, just pre-heat the drum, spools and films dry. I let the thing warm up for at least an hour to stabilize; preferably two. Drum pre-heat is 10 minutes.
Finally, I'll totally disagree with Borghesia on thermometers. Use a master/slave set, calibrating the slave to the master. My masters are two lab Brannan mercury thermometers agreeing to 0.1 degrees C. Calibrate digi or dial to these, checking frequently. The big thing about twin mercury is that you can see if something has gone wrong. Digi or dial, you never know.
Cheers,
R.
TJV
Well-known
So the basic CE-2 starter kit, two master mercury thermometers and a digi thermometer is the ticket, you reckon?
And Tetenal three bath kits are okay? Or is there another brand that's better?
And Tetenal three bath kits are okay? Or is there another brand that's better?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I've not found anything better than Tetenal (in fact, I don't think there's much alternative nowadays, except Kodak). You can also control colour casts through pH control: a few drops of a weak solution of NaOH or H2SO4 (included in the Tetenal instructions).
One master thermometer is all you need, but two allows you to cross-check the master as well.
As the CPE-2 is extremely consistent, it acts as a self-check on the thermometer too, as long as you always use the thermometer the same way (same place/same immersion depth). On the other hand, although the marked thermostat settings are very consistent, they're not very accurate, e.g. a marked 38 may be a true 40, so you need the thermometer.
Another option, incidentally, is a Nova hand-line, for use in the dark only for the first two steps.
Cheers,
R.
TJV
Well-known
That brings up an interesting and important point. How do you check the pH level before processing to check that you've got a good, neutral batch of chems made up? I'd hate to think it's a guessing game in that regard. Colour casts are a real concern for me. I'm pretty meticulous about my colour work.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Using uniform, deionized water for the first bath (the only one that's really critical), the Tetenal chemistry will give you uniform pH. If you detect a slight colour cast in the first batch processed, correct as directed: the correction will remain constant.
With scanned images, a colour cast in the first batch ain't so bad as it can be corrected in post-processing; once you've got the requisite correction in, it remains constant.
These casts are SLIGHT -- less than you'd get from many commercial labs, or similar to the differences between two pro labs.
Cheers,
R.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I have no experience with E6 processing but developed maybe 20 rolls or so C41 (both 135 and 120). I only used the sink in the kitchen as a water bath and a standard mercury thermometer. Except for processing pushed film, I developed C41 at 30 degrees (and longer time). Chemicals used were the Naniwa Colorkit N (maybe only available in Japan) with a combined bleach / fix bath (BLIX). Results were comparable to commercial processing but I has less scratches on my negs ...
TJV
Well-known
This makes me smile because I always thought home colour processing was almost impossible! To think of someone doing it in the kitchen sink gives me great hope, but not as much hope, faith and an ear to ear grin as hearing that it's possible I may never see another scratch from crappy roller transport machines, improper handling or careless printing, no finger prints that AREN'T MINE etc etc etc again.
Thanks Roger. One last thing though. What is uniform, deionized water? It's probably a silly question but I was never any good in science at school!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Tim,
Gabor is right. I've used a bucket water-bath too, with a kettle of near-boiling water to keep the temperature up. It's a LOT less critical than some would have you believe.
Deionized water is the cheap alternative to distilled water: very cheap in the US ($1-2 gallon), fairly cheap in France ($2-3 gallon), silly-expensive in the UK ($5-10 gallon). By 'uniform' I meant only 'from the same source'. on the grounds that they will always purify by the same process with the same end pH.
I habitually use water from a dehumidifier. As long as it's only a few days (or even weeks) old, from a dehumidifier in the darkroom, it's essentially distilled. Old dehumidified water that has been under bright light may have bacteria in it.
Cheers,
R.
Carlo
Member
I have both a CPP2 and a CPE2 processor, the second with lift. IMHO is the CPP2 the better unit, much better designed and allows processing of larger positives as well. However, both units will deliver good results. I did modified the CPE2 and equipped it with a circulator pump for the bath as I do not trust the "natural" cirsulation there. I process all my BW films and I run E6 process too (Tetenal 3 baths version), both with no problem whatsoever.
Decison which processor will match you needs will be driven by your particular troughput: if you plan to run more that 100 films/ month, then I would suggest the more rugged CPP2.
Decison which processor will match you needs will be driven by your particular troughput: if you plan to run more that 100 films/ month, then I would suggest the more rugged CPP2.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Carlo,
Heartily seconded. On this occasion, though, the CPE-2 does all I need. The CPP-2 would do all I want.
Cheers,
R.