peterm1
Veteran
I had my M8's rangefinder adjusted for distance and now its pretty good with most of my lens. But something I did not have done is to have vertical adjustment fixed. Its slightly off and has been for as long as I have owned it - enough to make it both annoying and difficult to know if focusing correctly due to the slight double image (vertically ) even when the lens turns out to be at optimum focus. I have put up with it till now but I have decided its time to take the proverbial bull by the horns.
It does not matter too much on some subjects - eg when shooting a building its always possible to find a straight line and to use that as the focus point. But with other subjects like a portrait where all the lines are curves it becomes a real impediment to quick and accurate focusing.
From some time in the late film era Leica kindly changed the set up for this task. What used to be a simple job involving a small screwdriver, now requires a special tool.
I asked my camera guy (who performed the RF distance alignment) and confirmed he does not have the tool required for the job and does not propose to buy one. He is a good old school technician who does not by any means specialise in Leica but he did fix my rangefinder alignment for focusing OK. Problem is Leica gear is only a small part of his business so who can blame him.
It turns out that to get my camera calibrated for this vertical misalignment I would have to send it interstate or overseas as there is no one local who can do it. I dont want to do that (a) its expensive (b) there is some risk involved in sending it by mail or courier and (c) I will be without a rangfinder camera potentially for a few weeks.
So I bought the required tool on eBay! Cost about $50. Quite a lot for what it is but cheap compared to the alternatives.
The process looks simple - see this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgboxtZ3Dvs
(Note in this the guy has removed the top cover. This is not necessary. In fact to the contrary the top cover has to be on to facilitate the process. All that is needed is for the red Leica dot to be removed.)
I have a question about the task from those who know.
Which is there anything special I should be watching out for?
Please note, that I am not looking for posts that say "Oh you should not do this yourself as its too risky ...blah blah blah blah." Or "I had a friend once who's great uncle Bill knew someone whose friend down the road had second cousin who had a Leica and he.......blah blah, blah blah".
And I am not really looking for gratuitous advice from anyone who has not performed this task and is guessing. Neither am I looking for advice about how to remove the Leica red dot to get at the adjstment point nor how to glue it back on afterwards.
I know all that stuff!
Thank you in anticipation.
It does not matter too much on some subjects - eg when shooting a building its always possible to find a straight line and to use that as the focus point. But with other subjects like a portrait where all the lines are curves it becomes a real impediment to quick and accurate focusing.
From some time in the late film era Leica kindly changed the set up for this task. What used to be a simple job involving a small screwdriver, now requires a special tool.
I asked my camera guy (who performed the RF distance alignment) and confirmed he does not have the tool required for the job and does not propose to buy one. He is a good old school technician who does not by any means specialise in Leica but he did fix my rangefinder alignment for focusing OK. Problem is Leica gear is only a small part of his business so who can blame him.
It turns out that to get my camera calibrated for this vertical misalignment I would have to send it interstate or overseas as there is no one local who can do it. I dont want to do that (a) its expensive (b) there is some risk involved in sending it by mail or courier and (c) I will be without a rangfinder camera potentially for a few weeks.
So I bought the required tool on eBay! Cost about $50. Quite a lot for what it is but cheap compared to the alternatives.
The process looks simple - see this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgboxtZ3Dvs
(Note in this the guy has removed the top cover. This is not necessary. In fact to the contrary the top cover has to be on to facilitate the process. All that is needed is for the red Leica dot to be removed.)
I have a question about the task from those who know.
Which is there anything special I should be watching out for?
Please note, that I am not looking for posts that say "Oh you should not do this yourself as its too risky ...blah blah blah blah." Or "I had a friend once who's great uncle Bill knew someone whose friend down the road had second cousin who had a Leica and he.......blah blah, blah blah".
And I am not really looking for gratuitous advice from anyone who has not performed this task and is guessing. Neither am I looking for advice about how to remove the Leica red dot to get at the adjstment point nor how to glue it back on afterwards.
I know all that stuff!
Thank you in anticipation.
enero
Killer of Threads
I just had to do this last week. I was going to send my M8 to Youxin to do since I couldnt find a tool for cheaper then what you paid, and I knew that he only charged about $30 for the adjustment. But when he wrote me back, he said instead of risking and paying for all that shipping to get the camera back and forth, why dont I just buy the tool from him for $30 flat! Couldnt beat that
I also watched that video to confirm what I was doing. It was a little confusing at first because of the unconventional tool, but it made sense after a few seconds.
The only thing to watch out for is that it just takes the tiniest bit of pressure to throw the alignment way out of place. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times before I got it right. It was a bit frustrating because it really only takes the lightest nudge. After about a minute of getting it way off, I put the camera down, took a breathe, and gave the tool an ever so delicate touch, and it was done
Also I read a lot of people saying to use some kind of solvent to loosen the dot of glue in there. Youxin, said it was optional. And I am glad I didnt use anything, I think the glue actually kept me from twisting more than I should have.
Hope this helped, good luck!
I also watched that video to confirm what I was doing. It was a little confusing at first because of the unconventional tool, but it made sense after a few seconds.
The only thing to watch out for is that it just takes the tiniest bit of pressure to throw the alignment way out of place. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times before I got it right. It was a bit frustrating because it really only takes the lightest nudge. After about a minute of getting it way off, I put the camera down, took a breathe, and gave the tool an ever so delicate touch, and it was done
Also I read a lot of people saying to use some kind of solvent to loosen the dot of glue in there. Youxin, said it was optional. And I am glad I didnt use anything, I think the glue actually kept me from twisting more than I should have.
Hope this helped, good luck!
peterm1
Veteran
I just had to do this last week. I was going to send my M8 to Youxin to do since I couldnt find a tool for cheaper then what you paid, and I knew that he only charged about $30 for the adjustment. But when he wrote me back, he said instead of risking and paying for all that shipping to get the camera back and forth, why dont I just buy the tool from him for $30 flat! Couldnt beat that
I also watched that video to confirm what I was doing. It was a little confusing at first because of the unconventional tool, but it made sense after a few seconds.
The only thing to watch out for is that it just takes the tiniest bit of pressure to throw the alignment way out of place. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times before I got it right. It was a bit frustrating because it really only takes the lightest nudge. After about a minute of getting it way off, I put the camera down, took a breathe, and gave the tool an ever so delicate touch, and it was done
Also I read a lot of people saying to use some kind of solvent to loosen the dot of glue in there. Youxin, said it was optional. And I am glad I didnt use anything, I think the glue actually kept me from twisting more than I should have.
Hope this helped, good luck!
Thanks enero.
That's really very useful to know. I put in a bid for the tool on eBay at $30 but it automatically rejected. It also rejected a bid at $35. The system only allows you to make 3 bids so I boosted the next one to $50 and it was accepted. It only occurred to me later that maybe the thing is programmed to automatically reject the first couple of offers and accept the third. In which case "DOH!"
I cannot recall immediately if the seller was Youxin or Zhou.
A question. Does the thing turn easily or is there a bit of torque required? It has occurred to me that wrapping the handle in tape to make it a larger diameter would give more fine grained control over rotation. As might bending the end (to make it more like an Allen key). Also I noticed in the video that when the guy started using the tool the apparatus / adjustment gadget on the camera moved backwards (and then he backed off a bit then tried again and rotated it). Is this what you refer to when you mentioned the need for "the tiniest bit of pressure" or is it only the rotation movement that is problematic? I only ask as I know that when adjusting the rangefinder for distance you have to be very careful not to move the actuating arm in and out while making the adjustment.
My plan is to set up the camera on a tripod with a lens mounted and to focus on a suitable target whilst peering through the finder and making the adjustment. A square post set in the ground such as a street sign (using the top of the post as a target) would seem to be the best option for fine tuning.
enero
Killer of Threads
Hi Peter, sorry for the delay in responding, I forgot to check to see if you wrote.
I'm pretty sure the one I saw on ebay was from Zhou, and it was $50 to start and didnt have a best offer button....speaking of which, I am actually quite fond of the Best Offer option. I use it whenever I can. And usually with a good amount of success, in both buying and selling. Its kind of pointless and unfortunate (for us) when sellers arent willing to go low enough. When I list an item, I usually set it to automatically decline offers beyond 10% of the asking price.
The tool is quite easy to turn. the glue on the mechanism only gives the tiniest bit of resistance, and the more I turned it, the looser it felt. I dont think enlarging the diameter of the tool is necessary. Full rotation from end to end is less then a full turn. At first I held the tool with my fingertips and twisted until I felt it move. And then ultimately just twisted until I felt some resistance. Thats really all it needed. This is a very quick and painless adjustment. You dont even need a lens. I just sat in front of my computer screen with a text file open with large bold type and just moved back and forth in my chair to focus. A tripod would probably make it a lot easier though
One thing I forgot to mention is that you shouldnt push the tool too far into the camera. The mechanism moves pretty freely, so just put the tool into the hole and once its in place, dont push any further back. Better safe then sorry.
Hope this helps!
peterm1
Veteran
This is a supplement to the thread that I started some months ago. I thought others who wanted to try this task might profit from my experience. And boy - what an experience.
I sent off to China for the special tool needed to do this job. Not the original Leica one, a copy. It arrived after about 8-10 weeks. A long time when you are waiting for something.
I have to say that in some ways this is a sh%t of a job to do although its not all that difficult in theory.
First getting the red dot off. As others have said its easy to do in principle - the dot is fixed with a blob of silicon sealant or rubber cement. Twisting the dot loosens it and eventually it pops off. But in practice its far from easy to do. I tried several methods and then ended up doing the following. I had a small round piece of aluminium rod about 6 inches long and of about the same diameter as the "dot". I heated the end in the stove's gas ring then placed it against the dot. I was worried about over doing it and damaging the dot or at least the red paint but this did not happen. This works as I expected - by softening the glue. Then with the camera laying in its back on a mouse mat I used two pieces of bamboo skewer to press against the edges of the raised lettering on the dot, first clockwise then counter clockwise pushing in unison on opposite sides. It did begin to rotate and then come off eventually but it was a little nerve wracking. Obviously there is a need for extreme care - even a wooden skewer can scratch the camera body badly if its slips.
Then on to the adjustment thingy. It's hidden inside the camera and if your eyes are crappy as mine are its a chore to see whats going one. The opening to view it is small so it was hard to keep light on the subject. Eventually by dint of using a jeweller's loupe screwed into my eye (and yes the bloody thing was too large and kept falling out) I was able to compare what I could see inside my camera with the image in the video referenced in the youtube link below.
Problem number 1 was that the little offset pin thing in my tool seemed a little too large in diameter (Chinese quality control?). I ground it down a tad. Then problem number two arose - the tool seemed to work in one direction (the wrong direction!) but not in the other. I turned it and it just spun around doing nothing. Eventually I realized the pin was still too large to fit properly in the hole preventing the tool from seating correctly, and fixed this by grinding a bit more so the tool would engage properly with the lugs inside the body of the camera.
Then I found the real problem - issue number 3. When people say the adjustment needed is tiny, they mean it. Think tiny then divide it by 5. No correction, divide it by 10. That tiny!!!!!
For 45 minutes to an hour I sat adjusting first in one direction then in another - not helped by not being able to see what I was doing inside the camera body and not helped by having to do it by trial and error - twist, raise the camera, check, then put the camera down to try again, and again and again and again................. Not helped also by the loupe popping out of my eye and not helped by regularly dropping the tool. But eventually I lucked out and hit the correct spot or so near it does not matter. That's it. No more adjusting. That will do. Leave it and get out while I can.
The only advice I can offer is "Keep your cool and Do not Panic!" The first time I moved the thing it produced a huge adjustment in the wrong direction - even though it seems I hardly moved it at all. Use small adjustments and at least you will not do any damage - you just need patience, patience and more patience till it works. This is something I normally lack but I figured I am not going to bust anything so just keep trying. If you get totally stuck be prepared to eat crow and go to your local camera technician while looking as sheepish as you can while you ask for his help. Usually works for me.
Some people recommended using a tiny dot of acetone applied by using the end of a toothpick to loosen the glue or mastic or whatever it is that holds the adjustment slider inside the camera in place. I did not do this as I thought it was risky. And besides it was by no means clear where the acetone should be placed. Clearly this was not a place where flooding the stuff on was wise. But if called upon to try this once more I think I would seriously consider using the solvent as moving the adjustment by the required tiny amount was no doubt made harder by the force needed to turn the tool. (I found it harder than others reported, even those who like me said they did not use a solvent).
When I started making the adjustment I had the camera mounted on a tripod set at sitting height and I had a low stool behind it. My idea was that it would be the best way of maintaining focus on a single far away point and keeping check on progress as I turned the tool and made the adjustment. (That's another point - do this with the lens focused at infinity for maximum accuracy). But it did not work out that way. Every time I tried to put the tool in place it blocked the range finder. And I kept dropping the tool. Eventually I gave up, went to the kitchen table and used the mouse mat again laying the camera on its back to make the adjustment, then picking up the camera to look through the view finder at how well the adjustment had worked. The idea of looking through the finder whilst making the adjustment was not as sound as it first seemed. So trial and error is the way to go.
One small further idea. I found it was easier to do using a physically small lens on the camera body as this affords more room to work when manipulating the tool. A longer lens just gets in the way and serves no purpose (the lens you are using does not affect vertical adjustment but some lens is needed to make sure that you can view the test subject and its accurately / focused correctly.
I hope this helps someone. I found this to be an annoying task due to the small tolerances involved and it did take much much longer than I had hoped. If you are going to try it. Good luck. I am sure that someone with moderate skills can do it ( I did) but I repeat I found it a painful task never the less. (Which I, would of course, do again if needed although not with much joy in my heart. It was fiddly and aggravating but not impossible.)
Which gives rise to a final thought. Is it worth it, after all mine was only out by a small amount? Damn right it is. Even a small amount of misalignment is too much. Before I did this, I struggled to find focus and was never sure I had it right. This caused me to miss a lot of shots either because I screwed up the focus or because I just took too long and the photo opp went away. Now the camera just snaps into focus just as it should. Hurrah.
I sent off to China for the special tool needed to do this job. Not the original Leica one, a copy. It arrived after about 8-10 weeks. A long time when you are waiting for something.
I have to say that in some ways this is a sh%t of a job to do although its not all that difficult in theory.
First getting the red dot off. As others have said its easy to do in principle - the dot is fixed with a blob of silicon sealant or rubber cement. Twisting the dot loosens it and eventually it pops off. But in practice its far from easy to do. I tried several methods and then ended up doing the following. I had a small round piece of aluminium rod about 6 inches long and of about the same diameter as the "dot". I heated the end in the stove's gas ring then placed it against the dot. I was worried about over doing it and damaging the dot or at least the red paint but this did not happen. This works as I expected - by softening the glue. Then with the camera laying in its back on a mouse mat I used two pieces of bamboo skewer to press against the edges of the raised lettering on the dot, first clockwise then counter clockwise pushing in unison on opposite sides. It did begin to rotate and then come off eventually but it was a little nerve wracking. Obviously there is a need for extreme care - even a wooden skewer can scratch the camera body badly if its slips.
Then on to the adjustment thingy. It's hidden inside the camera and if your eyes are crappy as mine are its a chore to see whats going one. The opening to view it is small so it was hard to keep light on the subject. Eventually by dint of using a jeweller's loupe screwed into my eye (and yes the bloody thing was too large and kept falling out) I was able to compare what I could see inside my camera with the image in the video referenced in the youtube link below.
Problem number 1 was that the little offset pin thing in my tool seemed a little too large in diameter (Chinese quality control?). I ground it down a tad. Then problem number two arose - the tool seemed to work in one direction (the wrong direction!) but not in the other. I turned it and it just spun around doing nothing. Eventually I realized the pin was still too large to fit properly in the hole preventing the tool from seating correctly, and fixed this by grinding a bit more so the tool would engage properly with the lugs inside the body of the camera.
Then I found the real problem - issue number 3. When people say the adjustment needed is tiny, they mean it. Think tiny then divide it by 5. No correction, divide it by 10. That tiny!!!!!
For 45 minutes to an hour I sat adjusting first in one direction then in another - not helped by not being able to see what I was doing inside the camera body and not helped by having to do it by trial and error - twist, raise the camera, check, then put the camera down to try again, and again and again and again................. Not helped also by the loupe popping out of my eye and not helped by regularly dropping the tool. But eventually I lucked out and hit the correct spot or so near it does not matter. That's it. No more adjusting. That will do. Leave it and get out while I can.
The only advice I can offer is "Keep your cool and Do not Panic!" The first time I moved the thing it produced a huge adjustment in the wrong direction - even though it seems I hardly moved it at all. Use small adjustments and at least you will not do any damage - you just need patience, patience and more patience till it works. This is something I normally lack but I figured I am not going to bust anything so just keep trying. If you get totally stuck be prepared to eat crow and go to your local camera technician while looking as sheepish as you can while you ask for his help. Usually works for me.
Some people recommended using a tiny dot of acetone applied by using the end of a toothpick to loosen the glue or mastic or whatever it is that holds the adjustment slider inside the camera in place. I did not do this as I thought it was risky. And besides it was by no means clear where the acetone should be placed. Clearly this was not a place where flooding the stuff on was wise. But if called upon to try this once more I think I would seriously consider using the solvent as moving the adjustment by the required tiny amount was no doubt made harder by the force needed to turn the tool. (I found it harder than others reported, even those who like me said they did not use a solvent).
When I started making the adjustment I had the camera mounted on a tripod set at sitting height and I had a low stool behind it. My idea was that it would be the best way of maintaining focus on a single far away point and keeping check on progress as I turned the tool and made the adjustment. (That's another point - do this with the lens focused at infinity for maximum accuracy). But it did not work out that way. Every time I tried to put the tool in place it blocked the range finder. And I kept dropping the tool. Eventually I gave up, went to the kitchen table and used the mouse mat again laying the camera on its back to make the adjustment, then picking up the camera to look through the view finder at how well the adjustment had worked. The idea of looking through the finder whilst making the adjustment was not as sound as it first seemed. So trial and error is the way to go.
One small further idea. I found it was easier to do using a physically small lens on the camera body as this affords more room to work when manipulating the tool. A longer lens just gets in the way and serves no purpose (the lens you are using does not affect vertical adjustment but some lens is needed to make sure that you can view the test subject and its accurately / focused correctly.
I hope this helps someone. I found this to be an annoying task due to the small tolerances involved and it did take much much longer than I had hoped. If you are going to try it. Good luck. I am sure that someone with moderate skills can do it ( I did) but I repeat I found it a painful task never the less. (Which I, would of course, do again if needed although not with much joy in my heart. It was fiddly and aggravating but not impossible.)
Which gives rise to a final thought. Is it worth it, after all mine was only out by a small amount? Damn right it is. Even a small amount of misalignment is too much. Before I did this, I struggled to find focus and was never sure I had it right. This caused me to miss a lot of shots either because I screwed up the focus or because I just took too long and the photo opp went away. Now the camera just snaps into focus just as it should. Hurrah.
mingkookoo
Well-known
Thx for the info Peter
burancap
Veteran
I just did one last week. Removal of the roundel is always the most taxing part of the adjustment. And as you say: tiny, tiny, tiny adjustments are all that is required (excluding a small tumbler of whisky).
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
If you need a tool you can grind the end of a small screwdriver to a small offset lug.
It is essential to soften the locking compound with a minimal -not more, you don’t want it to dissolve, just soften and you don’t want acetone in the rest of the mechanism!- spot of acetone; if you don’t do that the readjusting will break the adhesion causing the adjustment to get lost easily, as the adjustment fork in the camera is not locked any more.
To make sure that you look into the viewfinder straight use a magnifier, or even two stacked.
It is essential to soften the locking compound with a minimal -not more, you don’t want it to dissolve, just soften and you don’t want acetone in the rest of the mechanism!- spot of acetone; if you don’t do that the readjusting will break the adhesion causing the adjustment to get lost easily, as the adjustment fork in the camera is not locked any more.
To make sure that you look into the viewfinder straight use a magnifier, or even two stacked.
peterm1
Veteran
gdi
Veteran
I bought one from Zhou earlier this year and found the tool fit perfectly. I tried filing down a screw driver, but the tool was a much better fit and worth the money.
I used a little acetone on the end of a tooth pick, so it could really only get the glue damp and it softened it enough to easily adjust. I was able to hold the tool in the right spot and adjust it while looking through the viewfinder - it helped that I had a ton of practice in a similar procedure with my old R-D1s. I adjusted both my M8 and MP.
The tool is a deal if you own a M body or two.
I used a little acetone on the end of a tooth pick, so it could really only get the glue damp and it softened it enough to easily adjust. I was able to hold the tool in the right spot and adjust it while looking through the viewfinder - it helped that I had a ton of practice in a similar procedure with my old R-D1s. I adjusted both my M8 and MP.
The tool is a deal if you own a M body or two.
Scheelings
Well-known
So the acetone will evaporate and the glue will hold again - i.e. you are suggesting it reverses back to full hold
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Exactly.