advice please on setting up from scratch

my macbook cost 2000 US best money i spent. networks with pcs easy opens files if u have the program. I also have a laptop opens large pictures no problem. router worked without configuring. always comes with firewire. most good popular programs have a mac version. some companies will give u mac version in exchange for PC version or small fee. macs are dead easy as well.
 
Get a Imac desktop and a time capsule router/external HD. The best, most cost effective set up for Photography.

I have used pcs with slackware, debian and gentoo linux, with OpenBSD and FreeBSD, and with windows; the worst was Windows. Unreliable, prone freezing, viruses, lame security...do yourself a favour and drop Windows as the OS you use to browse for security reasons alone.
 
Seeing as everyone seems to be recommending a Mac, let's see if I can redress the balance by listing the advantages of a Windows PC...

Err...

Hm...

Nope, can't think of any :D

I use a Mac Pro in the UK (with the gorgeous 30" Cinema Display), and a 24" iMac in Thailand.

The extra grunt of the Pro (even though it's only the entry-level 4 processor one) makes a difference when I'm working with big high res scans, but the iMac isn't really very far behind (though I like the internal disk expansion in the Pro - with the iMac I need an external HD for Time Machine backup).

With both setups, I have the Mac and a PC networked on the same LAN (the PC is a company laptop that I have to carry back and forth with me), and there are no compatibility problems - I can share all documents, photos, music, etc between the two just fine.

I simply would not use a Windows computer for personal use unless I really had no option.
 
not excatly sure what RAID is..some sort of external hard drive storage?
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"RAID — [...] — is a technology that employs the simultaneous use of two or more hard disk drives to achieve greater levels of performance, reliability, and/or larger data volume sizes." - Wikipedia

You can either get a RAID card and two (or more) internal HDs, or an external RAID box. I use the latter, with two 500Gb HDs in it, in RAID 1 (mirror) config to give me dual copies of everything - it is network-enabled and supports a number of different communication protocols, so I can access it from any computer on the network.
 
Thanks heaps Fred, Alan and all with the help and advice on this...it didnt occure to me at all to consider the Mac but as suggested, i managed to play around with one for a while and it certainly appears impressive and the machine to go for...pretty much decided thats what i will get, although it does seem it may not sync with my phone the way i sync it now to outlook on the PC...and it does appear its going to cost me more than was thinking of spending overall on a PC but ya get that eh!

I get the comparison with Dell machines but i am not sure how they compare in price to a local built PC (place that sells computer parts and they put one together). not that i really understand how these parts compare to others but this (below) is an example one shop gave me.

not that i chose these parts, this was an experiment just before i began this thread because my son insisted he wanted to build his own computer and then he would build mine after, telling me it was going to heaps cheaper. so i put it to the test and went to one shop that puts together thier own units that are said to be cheap, took a brochure with the parts listed, and went to the 'parts shop' that my son and his mates say are the cheapest and had them price it all up.....it turned out being about the same price and then i found out that they only charge an extra $70 for labour to build it and install any software (with a warranty) so i suggested to my son it wasnt worth the trouble to build it himself to save $70

MBAGB99990 -G-B (AM2+-940) MA770-DS3 1 $135.00
HDDWD008-ZZ640 SATA W.D. 640GB HDD 1 $99.00
VGAPNAS9999-11 -ASUS PCI-E 512MB 9800GTX PLUS 1 $298.00
CPUA99908 AM2-940 x2 6000+ 1 $113.00
RAM85999 Kingston Value 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800 1 $82.00
RWLG9993-1 LG SATA Black 22x DVD RW - 1 Year Warranty 1 $27.00
MTVS9798 Viewsonic 22" VX2240W-2 2ms DVI WS 1 $239.00
KBMS9997 @MS Retail 4000 Cordless Desktop 1 $64.00
SWMS9991 MS Windows VISTA 32bit Home Premium Edition 1 $145.00
PSUTT9895 600Watt. ToughPower Thermaltake PSU 1 $145.00
CASETT9990 Thermaltake Xaser VI MX Mid Black Tower Case without PSU 1 $139.00
LA01201-M9 Parts Assembly-1 Year Parts&Labour Warranty 1 $70.00
SUB TOTAL
FREIGHT
OTHER CHARGE
TOTAL INCLUDES GST
$1,414.54
$0.00
$0.00
$141.46
$1,556.00
G.S.T.​

so this computer is only $1556.00AU (iMac range from $1599+extra ram needed--$2999+ram and Mac Pro about $4000) and i was told it was powerfull and has two or three fans ect. how does this configuration or something simular compare to the Mac. Just wondering if i have to say to myself i will be paying more for a Mac but getting something for it ..or whether the Macs are still about the same price as this and i am choosing the right machine with no cash penalty .​

thanks again..i am glad i asked and I learnt a heap which helped me understand what i was looking at, and what to ask, while i was at the store.​
 
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I tried using mac few times and it didn't work for me...but that's probably because I'm a long time linux user and I'm used to configuring everything exactly to my needs. But if you don't have this problem, Macs can work great and you mostly don't have to worry about getting a virus, instability etc...like on windows. In my opinion, it's worth the money.

Other thing - when buying a mac, buy it with minimum memory and install additional memory yourself, you can save a lot that way. Also, there are some educational discounts from apple that your son may be able to use. And if you'd have to buy new monitor anyway, iMac might be the best option now.

If you'll go the windows route, I'd buy Intel instead of AMD. Some Core 2 Quad, 4GB RAM, motherboard based on Intel G45 chipset (if using only one monitor - integrated graphics should be sufficient - for 2D work, you really don't need anything else), decent HDD + one or two big external drives for backup.

As for monitors, you'd need at least some S-PVA panel, or ideally S-IPS - TN panels (cheapest) aren't really usable for graphic work. I have latest S-PVA 24" monitor from Dell and it's great. Read lots of reviews - monitor is probably the most important thing from the whole setup.

As for scanners, I'd say coolscans are miles away from the epson. But as you'd be buying the epson anyway, you'll see yourself if the scans are ok or not.
 
One thing you might want to consider is a bare bones kit, and bring over other things from your current PC(s). Usually quite a bit cheaper that way. Another thing about building a bare bones especially, or even ordering from a shop that builds, is that you get what you want, not what a manufacturer or seller such as Dell figures you want. Then you often have to spend more getting it tweaked just the way you want. Those store build computers in-store have found that people really do fall for the shell game. You even have to be careful about buying parts to build. Don't be afraid to ask for discounts either. It often works in the US.

RAID mentioned above stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks. If you want one and aren't computer literate, savy, and adventuresome, buy something already set up. They have their place, and in application are convenient. Most of us can simply back up to another disk, those things we value.
 
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It ain't that difficult to learn using a Mac. I'm telling you,after 15 years of Windows i was easily hopping over. And there are even helping documents oriented to longtime windows users to facilitate this. :)
The iMac's are great tools. I have a macbook (needed portability) but it also works great for me, although screen is obviously way too small for this.
 
I am sure MACs are good. I just didn't like Apple's pricing in the old days (80s) and their lack of support for gaming as well as applications. Commodore was much more fun to my mind. I thought even their applications were better. Commodore certainly had the best programmers around, as evidenced by what they could tweak from the sparse memory of the Commodore. They also had a better Windows than Windows until Windows 3.1. Apple kept things locked up tight, not letting anyone under their hood. They are still around, but not as big as they could have been.
 
Maybe more important than operating system/platform: get a screen calibration tool (spider express is cheap and good enough). Learn a bit about color profiles. Get as much ram as you can afford (and make sure your computer can accomodate at least 2 gig). I have only 1 gigabyte but it slows things down with medium format scans already.

The v700 is quite good for medium format, and of course much better for large format than a nikon 9000 would ever be :) I say go for it, and eventually upgrade it with the "better scanning" film holders. I use the originals, that are less than ideal but work okay.
 
chippy,

first - the scanners
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
- Nikon CS9000 with glass carrier is a must for MF and tackles 135mm well, beware, a 48bit RGB scan from a 6x6 frame comes out at roughly 700MB each, this means you will need an external disk of 1 terabyte for every 135 6x6 scans!

second - the screen
- just like lenses are essential for taking pictures, a good monitor is essential for elaborating pictures, best monitors are specialized versions of NEC or La CIE, and can cost more than the computer itself, MAC cinema displays are also good, but come behind these...

third, the printer
- a good inkjet printer will give results as good or better than a lab, but you have the advantage of being able to control the printing process - for small volume work they are indispensable, don't waste your time with Epson R2400, because the cartridges are too small, go directly to 3800 or better

fourth, the calibtrator
- you have to calibrate the whole chain, possibly including the printer profiles, so take this into account, as the complete products don't come for free...

fifth, the computer
- for whatever reason Mac's are preferred in this field, I have worked with both a Mac and a PC, and would second the idea that a Mac is better - I have also read that at present you can use the RAM more effectively on a Mac, but this may change as we go, however I have a negative experience with my iMac as far as the screen goes - I started getting lines of burned pixels after a couple of years of daily use, so I'd recommend a professional screen (NEC or pro line Mac) with a normal big case Mac housing

finally, as you may have understood already, the bigger the format the bigger the files, so get a RAID set of external hard drives with several terabyte space, or your storage will overflow after a few weeks

estimated cost to consider for a serious "starter kit" is in the range of 10-15k USD
 
I program Windows and Linux computers for a living. At home (and particularly for photography) I use a Mac Pro. They ARE more expensive. But worth it.

Go for a minimum spec Mac Pro and then load up with some RAM from Crucial.com and a couple of extra 1Tb hard drives from Dabs.com or similar. Saves a fortune.

Then you will need either Lightroom or Aperture, and Photoshop CS or Elements. That should get you going.
 
oftheherd said:
One thing you might want to consider is a bare bones kit, and bring over other things from your current PC(s). .......


RAID mentioned above stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks. If you want one and aren't computer literate, savy, and adventuresome, buy something already set up. They have their place, and in application are convenient. Most of us can simply back up to another disk, those things we value.
Click to expand...


yeah ..i did think of that for a while oftherherd. but came to the conclusion there wouldn't be much in the old box that wouldn't need updating or replacing...i thought that at best i could replace just a few components to update it a little and fix it , and then let the kids use it...they do anyway! even though this is meant to be mine. one advantage to a mac may be that my sons may be less inclined want to use it and i wont have to put up with the agony of finding yet another program installed that i didn't authorise...the scary part is my daughter has said she really likes the macs at school haha

thanks for the info on RAID...with everything else to get a handle on though this is still something i havn't looking into...it appears expensive at first glance and the method of having an standard external HD storage seems easier to grasp
 
mfogiel said:
chippy,

first - the scanners
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
- Nikon CS9000 with glass carrier is a must for MF and tackles 135mm well, beware, a 48bit RGB scan from a 6x6 frame comes out at roughly 700MB each, this means you will need an external disk of 1 terabyte for every 135 6x6 scans!

second - the screen
- just like lenses are essential for taking pictures, a good monitor is essential for elaborating pictures, best monitors are specialized versions of NEC or La CIE, and can cost more than the computer itself, MAC cinema displays are also good, but come behind these...

third, the printer
- a good inkjet printer will give results as good or better than a lab, but you have the advantage of being able to control the printing process - for small volume work they are indispensable, don't waste your time with Epson R2400, because the cartridges are too small, go directly to 3800 or better

fourth, the calibtrator
- you have to calibrate the whole chain, possibly including the printer profiles, so take this into account, as the complete products don't come for free...

fifth, the computer
- for whatever reason Mac's are preferred in this field, I have worked with both a Mac and a PC, and would second the idea that a Mac is better - I have also read that at present you can use the RAM more effectively on a Mac, but this may change as we go, however I have a negative experience with my iMac as far as the screen goes - I started getting lines of burned pixels after a couple of years of daily use, so I'd recommend a professional screen (NEC or pro line Mac) with a normal big case Mac housing

finally, as you may have understood already, the bigger the format the bigger the files, so get a RAID set of external hard drives with several terabyte space, or your storage will overflow after a few weeks

estimated cost to consider for a serious "starter kit" is in the range of 10-15k USD
Click to expand...


the price is the daunting thing...i wish i had of realised this a few months back when i had that to spare.

so the scanner will have to be the V700 at first (cross my fingers that 120 film will work ok) and down the track get the 9000.

screens; those cinema screens are pricey, ouch! (particulary the 30''), heck i thought those things were much cheaper nowadays, their the same kind of money as a big screen HD plasma or LCD TV--not a pleasent suprise

calibrater; i dont know anything about this yet. this is a software thing and not hardware i presume--expensive?

Printer; I was thinking the 3800 as well, but couldn't get straight answer from the salesperson whether they would produce as good as quality as the lab or not (when i asked the lab they said no of course), and if it is an economical way to go. either way in the mean time i can get them printed at the lab i suppose.

storage; when i was in the store the other day looking at the macs the guy was saying to save to tiff files -i think it was - and compress them all to save space, with no loss in quality. The size of the files we couldn't agree on--he was of the opinion that the negs only need be scanned at 300dpi or there-abouts and i was of the opinion that this didnt make sence considering i notice the difference in contact printing to enlarging (wet process). so logicaly this represents to me to scan at the highest res to keep detail. i dont mind the prospect of having to have a few terabites of storage but i hardly like the prospect of needing a room full of them. i can only imagine that many negs i will keep filed the old fashioned way (in cabinettes) with many stored on the computer in basic form (JPEG ?) with all details written what settings are needed to produce the print--simular to what i write down for each negative to wet print now.

i have been reading up on the sofware and that program Lightroom 2 looks to be just the thing to organise photo-files ect. photoshop CS4 seems like a usefull addition (like the idea of panorama stitching) but i am not sure just how much i will need that program if much at all, and not sure if the basic PS elements does panorama yet.
 
peripatetic said:
I program Windows and Linux computers for a living. At home (and particularly for photography) I use a Mac Pro. They ARE more expensive. But worth it.

Go for a minimum spec Mac Pro and then load up with some RAM from Crucial.com and a couple of extra 1Tb hard drives from Dabs.com or similar. Saves a fortune.

Then you will need either Lightroom or Aperture, and Photoshop CS or Elements. That should get you going.
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tar thanks...seems like good advice...

ironically the ram the store sells is cheaper than what Apple quote, they said that they get it cheaper from them...whether there telling the truth i dont know, perhaps they are getting it from other sources as well.

Lightroom 2 seems like a great program from what i have seen so far so i am keen to use it...photoshop i downloaded a trail version and it no doubt has a learning curve to it--(read didnt get far with it!)
 
If you go for a Mac, I'd definitely agree with the suggestion to get the minimum memory and upgrade it yourself - Apple's prices for extra memory are extortionate.

For example, if you want a 24" iMac with 4Gb (the max) instead of the standard 2Gb, the UK Apple store want an extra £100 (ie £100 for the extra 2Gb). But I bought a 4Gb set from Crucial for approx £50 and installed that (and I have the original 2Gb that I'll offer on eBay when I get back to the UK).

Price differentials on memory for my Mac Pro were even more extreme, though I can't remember the details now - again, I got Crucial memory.

Apple's HD upgrade prices are also expensive, but not as bad as memory prices, and it's a lot harder to upgrade the HD in an iMac (so I just use an external as extra storage). But for my Mac Pro I went for the entry level 320Gb and added an extra internal 500Gb myself - it just plugs in without even any wires.
 
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
Click to expand...
I've been getting great 35mm scans from my V700. Film flatness can be a problem, but there are ways round it. What I do is wind my negatives onto a film developing spiral the wrong way round (emulsion out) for a while before scanning (some films only need a couple of hours, others seem to need overnight), and they come out flat enough to scan pretty well.

And though I can't make any claims as to the effective resolution, the results I get make me seriously doubt that 2200dpi estimate.
 
I refuse to get into a Mac vs. PC thing, but Adobe goes to great pains to insure that Photoshop is identical, button by button whether you are on a Mac or PC... so if you can navigate to Photoshop... it really doesn't matter that much. You can work with either. Also, photo editing is now very low resource demands, even with scanned LF images, a low to med. machine with 2-3 gigs RAM will work just fine, really, it doesn't matter that much. What you will want is a very good moniter and a calibration system immediately. CRT screens are much better than all but the most expensive LCDs. No body is selling windows machines with anything but Vista installed... it's kind of a pain. I would get the Nikon 9000 if you intend on scanning 35mm film, the Epson is good, but the Nikon will be noticably better for 35mm IMO.
 
let's see... less than half the price? Nahhh... that doesn't matter to any of us here...

>>Seeing as everyone seems to be recommending a Mac, let's see if I can redress the balance by listing the advantages of a Windows PC...
 
Personally, I would just skip Lightroom and Elements and get CS4. elements has all kinds of little annoying limitations just to make you realize you need photoshop (Curves is enough just on its own). CS4 does everything you need an more and you will not ever have to move up to it.
 
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