david.elliott
Well-known
Hello,
I'm looking into choosing a film SLR system. Reason? Sometimes I want to get closer than rangefinders allow, and sometimes I want to go longer. I cannot, for example, take a photo of a single strawberry or a far away (thankfully) lion at the zoo with my bessa. That said, I would likely use a 50/1.4 lens most of the time, just with having the options to go longer / closer as needed. Should be a nice change of pace from time to time.
I would like a manual focus only camera. I have no desire for autofocus. Big bright easy to see viewfinder, even with glasses (very important). Metered.
Price is an issue since I am looking to keep costs low. Less than $200 for the camera with the accompanying 50/1.4 being as inexpensive as possible. Less expensive the better, without sacrificing too much. This would be for a purchase later in the year, probably mid fall - I need some time to save up.
I'm looking at three main systems. I'm not considering canon at the moment because I know nothing at all about them, but please feel free to suggest canon SLRs and educate me... Or SLRs from other systems too.
-Nikon
-Olympus OM
-Pentax Screwmount
I have a Nikon D70 with 50/1.8D, 105/2.5 AIS, and 24/2 AIS lenses. I also have a set of kenko extension tubes. So it would seem to fit well if I could pick up say a F3HP. From my research it seems like that would be the camera of choice for me from the Nikon system. My problem is that I really dont care for the photos of the 50/1.4 ai or ais lenses that I saw on flickr. A lot of them seem to have ringed bokeh donuts whenever there are point light sources. Frankly, I dont like my 50/1.8D photos nearly as much as I like my voightlander lens photos. I dont like ringed bokeh at all. But for sharpness, and stopped down, they seem great. I shoot wide open in relatively low light conditions mainly though, so I'm very hesitant.
The olympus om system is very highly regarded on these forums. The photos I have seen here and on flickr look nice. The cameras seem small. I am concerned about whether I could see the whole viewfinder while wearing glasses. The lenses in ex or higher condition do seem relatively expensive at say KEH or adorama, with prices continuing to rise. But the bargain condition ones are cheap.
Pentax screwmount would probably be my system of choice going by the lenses. The takumars are dirt cheap compared to nikon and om lenses. I've handled a couple takumar lenses and they felt suberb and the images I have seen on flickr have the smoothest OOF areas of the three systems, at least in my opinion. They are also very sharp too. My problem is the stop down metering sounds like a pain in the butt. And for open aperture metering there is the spotmatic-f (would require wein cells unlike other spotmatics), ES or ESII which if they die ... they would be a brick. I also dont like that I would have to keep the lens cap on with those to avoid battery drain because of the meter running. Using the takumar lenses on a k-mount body would require stop down metering, sigh. Also, I wasnt able to find anything about the viewfinders - so I assume they arent as nice as the nikon or olympus s ystems? I cant put M42 lenses on the nikon or olympus systems. I could on a canon system I think, but it would still require stop down metering which is something I would rather avoid.
Advice, comments, suggestions, questions, etc - all are welcome.
Thank you for your help.
-David
I'm looking into choosing a film SLR system. Reason? Sometimes I want to get closer than rangefinders allow, and sometimes I want to go longer. I cannot, for example, take a photo of a single strawberry or a far away (thankfully) lion at the zoo with my bessa. That said, I would likely use a 50/1.4 lens most of the time, just with having the options to go longer / closer as needed. Should be a nice change of pace from time to time.
I would like a manual focus only camera. I have no desire for autofocus. Big bright easy to see viewfinder, even with glasses (very important). Metered.
Price is an issue since I am looking to keep costs low. Less than $200 for the camera with the accompanying 50/1.4 being as inexpensive as possible. Less expensive the better, without sacrificing too much. This would be for a purchase later in the year, probably mid fall - I need some time to save up.
I'm looking at three main systems. I'm not considering canon at the moment because I know nothing at all about them, but please feel free to suggest canon SLRs and educate me... Or SLRs from other systems too.
-Nikon
-Olympus OM
-Pentax Screwmount
I have a Nikon D70 with 50/1.8D, 105/2.5 AIS, and 24/2 AIS lenses. I also have a set of kenko extension tubes. So it would seem to fit well if I could pick up say a F3HP. From my research it seems like that would be the camera of choice for me from the Nikon system. My problem is that I really dont care for the photos of the 50/1.4 ai or ais lenses that I saw on flickr. A lot of them seem to have ringed bokeh donuts whenever there are point light sources. Frankly, I dont like my 50/1.8D photos nearly as much as I like my voightlander lens photos. I dont like ringed bokeh at all. But for sharpness, and stopped down, they seem great. I shoot wide open in relatively low light conditions mainly though, so I'm very hesitant.
The olympus om system is very highly regarded on these forums. The photos I have seen here and on flickr look nice. The cameras seem small. I am concerned about whether I could see the whole viewfinder while wearing glasses. The lenses in ex or higher condition do seem relatively expensive at say KEH or adorama, with prices continuing to rise. But the bargain condition ones are cheap.
Pentax screwmount would probably be my system of choice going by the lenses. The takumars are dirt cheap compared to nikon and om lenses. I've handled a couple takumar lenses and they felt suberb and the images I have seen on flickr have the smoothest OOF areas of the three systems, at least in my opinion. They are also very sharp too. My problem is the stop down metering sounds like a pain in the butt. And for open aperture metering there is the spotmatic-f (would require wein cells unlike other spotmatics), ES or ESII which if they die ... they would be a brick. I also dont like that I would have to keep the lens cap on with those to avoid battery drain because of the meter running. Using the takumar lenses on a k-mount body would require stop down metering, sigh. Also, I wasnt able to find anything about the viewfinders - so I assume they arent as nice as the nikon or olympus s ystems? I cant put M42 lenses on the nikon or olympus systems. I could on a canon system I think, but it would still require stop down metering which is something I would rather avoid.
Advice, comments, suggestions, questions, etc - all are welcome.
Thank you for your help.
-David
Most Fast 50s are going to give will have harsher Ringed Donuts due to over-correction of spherical aberration. It does give a sharp and harsh look at the same time.
In the Nikon world, the 5.8cm F1.4 gives an older look, more typical of a 1950s Leica RF lens.
Most M42 lenses are Stop-Down metering. Few exceptions are the last series Pentax screwmounts and Fujica ST801/901. The bodies work in Stop-Down metering mode with regular M42 lenses. I have an St801, it's Fujica 50/1.8 is quite good.
Remember that in the "heyday" of manual focus SLR photography (60s and 70s), no cared about the out of focus areas. They wanted Fast Glass, sharp and contrasty.
In the Nikon world, the 5.8cm F1.4 gives an older look, more typical of a 1950s Leica RF lens.
Most M42 lenses are Stop-Down metering. Few exceptions are the last series Pentax screwmounts and Fujica ST801/901. The bodies work in Stop-Down metering mode with regular M42 lenses. I have an St801, it's Fujica 50/1.8 is quite good.
Remember that in the "heyday" of manual focus SLR photography (60s and 70s), no cared about the out of focus areas. They wanted Fast Glass, sharp and contrasty.
Chris101
summicronia
The real advantage to the Nikon system (in addition to the fact that you already own some Nikkors - the 105 f/2.5 is supposed to be very nice) is the fact that it is still producing lenses, and cameras for the same mount system. Neither Oly nor Pentax (nor Canon, although you did not mention them) are backward compatible. Nikon is getting less so (G lenses for example) but for the most part, new lenses work on older cameras. Nikon also still sells two current film SLR cameras, one of which is manual focus! (The FM-10. Nikon doesn't make it, Cosina does, but it is a Nikon design, and says Nikon on it.)
If you are mostly a 50mm shooter, and a bokey fan, you will probably want to look at the OM system. There are lots of cameras in the used stream, and lenses are also abundant. I am still working on a request to compare and contrast the overall look of Nikkor 50mm with Zuiko 50mm lenses. The Zuikos look better to me. Although older Zuiko lenses can be put on newer Olympus cameras with adapters, newer lenses do not fit on OM cameras.
If you are mostly a 50mm shooter, and a bokey fan, you will probably want to look at the OM system. There are lots of cameras in the used stream, and lenses are also abundant. I am still working on a request to compare and contrast the overall look of Nikkor 50mm with Zuiko 50mm lenses. The Zuikos look better to me. Although older Zuiko lenses can be put on newer Olympus cameras with adapters, newer lenses do not fit on OM cameras.
Thardy
Veteran
Get a nice Nikon N80. They're nice, cheap and so new that even on ebay there's nary a surprise, unlike the OM-1 I just got.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I love the OM system, it is my main 35mm system and has been since I was 11 years old. The cameras are tiny, they operate quickly, they are easier to focus than most other manual focus systems I have tried, and the lenses are great. The viewfinders are huge and are hard to see all of the image even without glasses, but if you get an OM-4, OM-3, OM-4Ti, or OM-3Ti the cameras have built in eyepiece correction so you don't have to wear glasses with them.
About Pentax Screwmount. I have a Spotmatic and some lenses. The lenses are built tough and are superb optically. The pre-F spotmatic bodies have an on-off switch for the meter so you can leave the lens cap off.
About Pentax Screwmount. I have a Spotmatic and some lenses. The lenses are built tough and are superb optically. The pre-F spotmatic bodies have an on-off switch for the meter so you can leave the lens cap off.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
This really suggests a Nikon F3HP. Although the OMs probably have the brightest finders out of all your options, it's not so easy to see the whole frame when wearing specs.
Prosaic
Well-known
With the lenses you got, buy a used FM2 or maybe F100.
bmattock
Veteran
I would suggest that a person with a Nikon dSLR and some glass might well want to invest in a Nikon film system that would allow glass interchange as well.
However, I'd take issue with your statement that Pentax glass is not backwards-compatible. Certainly a PK or PKA mount lens won't mount on an old Pentax screw-mount camera, but as long as the lens has an aperture ring, it will mount on most PKA-capable Pentax film cameras, and some of the more modern film SLRs will take the most modern of lenses.
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/
Here's a complete run-down:
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/technology/summary/index.html
And of course, it must also be mentioned that the most modern of Pentax dSLR bodies will take the oldest Pentax lenses, plus medium format Pentax lenses and every lens that there was ever an M42 adapter for, as well. Pentax is the king of 'everything works' lenses and bodies.
However, I would still recommend Nikon if one has a sizable investment in Nikon glass already and wishes to preserve it.
amateriat
We're all light!
To quote a Mary Hopkin song, the horizon is open.
- Nikon: The easiest route, since you have a D70 body and a few lenses. Problem is, you don't sound all that enthused about the glass you have. You could buy some F-mount CV lenses, as well as that F3HP body (and, yes, you do want the HP: way back when, I had two F3 bodies, only one of which had the HP finder; the other finder drove me nuts after a while, so I eventually changed the finder on that one to HP as well). Means spending a few bucks on glass, but I'd bet you would love the results.
Of course, if you're willing to ignore the extra bells/whistles, F100s are pretty cheap, too.
- Olympus: My sole remaining SLR is an OM-2n. The bad news is that the VF doesn't have much in the way of eye relief for the bespectacled among us. The good news is that, to me, just about everything else is fine. Love the compact size, control layout, and general robustness of the body. I basically use mine (in conjunction with a Sigma 21-35mm zoom and VariMagni finder) as an ersatz miniature view camera, so it spends most of its time on a tripod.
- Pentax: If you want full-aperture metering, there's also the Spotmatic F. But, (1) you're still dealing with a system that relies on a mercury cell, meaning you either find a way to get hold of said batteries, or (more likely) have the camera modified and adjusted to use silver-oxide cells; (2) in order to take full advantage of the F's metering system, you'll need to stick to late-model Super Takumars, which were made with the F/ES/ESII in mind; earlier models will still require stop-down metering.
And, Spotmatic Fs aren't the easiest bodies to find, either.
Good luck!
Barrett
- Nikon: The easiest route, since you have a D70 body and a few lenses. Problem is, you don't sound all that enthused about the glass you have. You could buy some F-mount CV lenses, as well as that F3HP body (and, yes, you do want the HP: way back when, I had two F3 bodies, only one of which had the HP finder; the other finder drove me nuts after a while, so I eventually changed the finder on that one to HP as well). Means spending a few bucks on glass, but I'd bet you would love the results.
Of course, if you're willing to ignore the extra bells/whistles, F100s are pretty cheap, too.
- Olympus: My sole remaining SLR is an OM-2n. The bad news is that the VF doesn't have much in the way of eye relief for the bespectacled among us. The good news is that, to me, just about everything else is fine. Love the compact size, control layout, and general robustness of the body. I basically use mine (in conjunction with a Sigma 21-35mm zoom and VariMagni finder) as an ersatz miniature view camera, so it spends most of its time on a tripod.
- Pentax: If you want full-aperture metering, there's also the Spotmatic F. But, (1) you're still dealing with a system that relies on a mercury cell, meaning you either find a way to get hold of said batteries, or (more likely) have the camera modified and adjusted to use silver-oxide cells; (2) in order to take full advantage of the F's metering system, you'll need to stick to late-model Super Takumars, which were made with the F/ES/ESII in mind; earlier models will still require stop-down metering.
And, Spotmatic Fs aren't the easiest bodies to find, either.
Good luck!
Barrett
Last edited:
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
A very unusual choice! - but the best thing I've bought for years! ( no kidding! ) is a Konica FT1 and some AR Hexanon lenses. Available at very reasonable prices ( tho not too many about ) it handles beautifully and the lenses are second to none!....currently my favourite film camera!
Dave.
Dave.
R
ruben
Guest
The OM is my main system too, I love it too but I strongly disrecomend it. The reason? the lenses don't have any AF body upgrade, unlike Pentax, Nikon and Canon. This is not a minor issue, but a strategic one.
As for what to choose, no experience. But my nose tells me follow Barret's advice.
Cheers,
Ruben
Last edited by a moderator:
Chris101
summicronia
You are ever so correct. I must have a brain block to Pentax. My sister swears by hers.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
he did say - a manual focus camera and no desire for auto focus, Ruben.
dmr
Registered Abuser
The only one of these I'm familiar with is the Pentax screw system. The Spotmatic was my main camera for several years. I had the normal, 135, and 28 lenses. I loved it except for two things. First, changing lenses was a pain in the toosh! That's the main reason I went for the K1000. Second, metering was clumsy. Stop-down metering with a manual switch. You really couldn't meter and focus all at once.
Performance wise, you can't beat the Spotmatic! Excellent lenses!
Performance wise, you can't beat the Spotmatic! Excellent lenses!
jbrubaker
Established
A Pentax K1000 would be an ideal choice. Easy and cheap to find, very reliable, and a multitude of fine MF lenses available. Regards ---john.
nickdando
Established
What about Contax? You will have access to two manufacturers ranges of lenses, ranging from the excellent Carl Zeiss optics, to the good Yashica models. And there are other third-party lenses available as well.
The cameras are strong and well designed (Porsche Design) - models to have a look at are the 139, RTS II, RTS III and the S2 (which can be pricey).
The RTS II offers interchangeable focussing screens, mirror lock-up, 1/50th second mechanical back-up, a motor-drive as an option, plus a wide range of other accessories.
Nick
The cameras are strong and well designed (Porsche Design) - models to have a look at are the 139, RTS II, RTS III and the S2 (which can be pricey).
The RTS II offers interchangeable focussing screens, mirror lock-up, 1/50th second mechanical back-up, a motor-drive as an option, plus a wide range of other accessories.
Nick
R
ruben
Guest
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Given that you stressed your budget, I second the Konica odd-ball recommendation, and I'll throw in a mention of Sears/Ricoh for a cheap K mount body.
Let me back up and say that my SLR experience is very limited. I was given a Pentax ME Super outfit (alas, with a stuck mirror) and a little later picked up a Konica FP-1 with 50/1.8 from the free pile at a yard sale (!).
Now, the FP-1 is a dreadful program-only POS but it makes a decent rear cap -- the lens is a keeper. There's a lot of people who swear by Hexanons and I'm beginning to see why. They are very cheap on the used market for the quality.
I was trying to find a better Konica body for a while but for the moment I settled on a Sears KS-2 (Ricoh XR-7) to keep using the K mount lenses I have. Cost all of $10 plus shipping on ebay (seller thought it was dead but it only needed fresh batteries...)
Not much film through either of these, but the viewfinders are fine for me with glasses. Hoping for more experienced Konica and K mount users to flesh this info out for you.
Let me back up and say that my SLR experience is very limited. I was given a Pentax ME Super outfit (alas, with a stuck mirror) and a little later picked up a Konica FP-1 with 50/1.8 from the free pile at a yard sale (!).
Now, the FP-1 is a dreadful program-only POS but it makes a decent rear cap -- the lens is a keeper. There's a lot of people who swear by Hexanons and I'm beginning to see why. They are very cheap on the used market for the quality.
I was trying to find a better Konica body for a while but for the moment I settled on a Sears KS-2 (Ricoh XR-7) to keep using the K mount lenses I have. Cost all of $10 plus shipping on ebay (seller thought it was dead but it only needed fresh batteries...)
Not much film through either of these, but the viewfinders are fine for me with glasses. Hoping for more experienced Konica and K mount users to flesh this info out for you.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Pentax screw mount: stop down metering a big drawback. Lenses have a nice signature.
Olympus: lenses getting hard to find and expensive. 24mm, 35mm, 85mm becoming very pricey. OM-2 takes common batteries. OM-1 needs a converter or have the camera meter converted. Very light weight.
Nikon has many lenses at lower prices. Ai & Ais lenses supposedly the same accross the board but not exactly.
Your 105mm f2.5 ais is one of the sharpest lenses ever produced by Nikon and has become a classic. The 24mm f2.8 ais supposedly out perfoms the f2.0. The 50mm f1.4 ais came in 6 versions with the last being the best. The 50mm f1.8d is not preferable to the aforementioned 6th 50mm f1.4.
Bargain lenses often from the listed dealers are just as good as excellent or better at auctions. If you are not planning to use the lens much or are just experimenting go bargain.
Olympus: lenses getting hard to find and expensive. 24mm, 35mm, 85mm becoming very pricey. OM-2 takes common batteries. OM-1 needs a converter or have the camera meter converted. Very light weight.
Nikon has many lenses at lower prices. Ai & Ais lenses supposedly the same accross the board but not exactly.
Your 105mm f2.5 ais is one of the sharpest lenses ever produced by Nikon and has become a classic. The 24mm f2.8 ais supposedly out perfoms the f2.0. The 50mm f1.4 ais came in 6 versions with the last being the best. The 50mm f1.8d is not preferable to the aforementioned 6th 50mm f1.4.
Bargain lenses often from the listed dealers are just as good as excellent or better at auctions. If you are not planning to use the lens much or are just experimenting go bargain.
fbf
Well-known
I second the opinion on the om zuiko lenses. Great glass but the price is going up year by year (due to the Canon DSLR users)
Nikon Ai lenses are the best value (at the moment) IMHO.