Advise about panelbeating dents in FEDs

[timd]

I picked up a FED-1g some time ago, in reasonably clean condition but for a couple of dents on the back of the body shell. From their size and position it looks like it's been dropped or sat on by a hippo while in the case, because the dents line up with the presstuds on the case.


It's also a nightmare to load - although the film will go in, it chews the sprockets up and eventually ends up crunching them to the point where the film won't advance. I'm wondering if that's down to the film being jammed between the shutter crate and the case where it's been dented.

Does this sounds plausible, and if it's the case, how feasible would it be to try to knock the dents out, panel-beater style?

Or is this just a candidate for the great spare parts bin in the sky?? :bang:

 

[pshinkaw]

You can partially dismantle the camera by removing the shutter crate from the shell. That will enable you to remove the pressure plate. The body shells on these cameras tend to be very soft and so you may be able to gently push it back into some semblance of its proper shape and position.

Jay (Zorkikat) can probably give you some specific instructions on which screws to remove. Given your description, you may not have much to lose if it doesn't work.

-Paul

 

[Xmas]

Timd

My experience of distorsion (not on Zorki covering), is you need a dolly - a template to use as a push tool. e.g. the accessory shoe on my 1a had almost been ripped from top plate but now it is back to origional shape and I only need one screw to have an as new Zorki. I only needed several pairs of smooth faced pliers. The origional screw head is distorted and the shaft is bent.

Noel

 

[DaveP]

Contact Oleg and see if he has another body shell.

 

[Xmas]

Timd

If you do get the dents out you need a 'credit card' for the ERC (case) to protect the soft body.

Noel

 

[Limpovitj]

I once took out a dent in the body shell of a Leica II. The camera had been dropped, lens first, and smashed so hard into the ground that the lens pointed 15-20 degrees to the right. Ouch.
What I did felt pretty brutal but worked fine. I took two wooden planks (the softest wood I could find), as wide as the flat part of the camera shell, inserted one through the shell and laid the other one on top, rested the arrangement on two chairs (so the shell hung on the first piece of wood) and whacked away on the second piece of wood with a hammer.
To my surprise it worked out so well the camera focused perfectly (with the original paper lensmount shims) upon reassembly, without any adjusting or shimming. It was like it wanted to go back into it's original shape.

Maybe this could work for you?

 

[reagan]

I would think doing a little *body work* would be possible. If you don't mind some do-it-yourself, Here's Jay's site with info for getting the shutter crate and body shell apart. It's quite simple and straight forward. I'm also quite sure Jay will show up at this thread soon.

…the film will go in, it chews the sprockets up…

The rewind spindle could also be dragging, maybe in a bind somewhat and in need of cleaning/lubing, causing the film to have too much tension on it while winding. It can be checked also when the shutter/body have been separated.

My Zorki.1b had similar [only WORSE] problems. When I got into it to check it out, I found out it had a homemade pressure plate w/o springs that was binding the film. 😱

Cheers! Keep us posted.

 

[ZorkiKat]

. I'm also quite sure Jay will show up at this thread soon.

😀

The following isn't in the site :

I've made a beating 'tool' for beat-up body shells. It's made of wood, and can be made easily. I asked a furniture repair shop to fashion them out for me:

The tool consists of two parts: a wooden 'brick' which is about 26 mm thick and a cylinder 47.3mm in diameter. The wooden brick goes inside the body to hold the dimensions whilst the outside is being beaten to shape. This tool is
useful only for FED and early Zorki with stamped bodies. Later Zorki with more robust die-cast bodies (which don't really distort anyway, unless used as a mallet 🙂) don't really need this. They also had thinner interior depths.

It is necessary to have the brick to be exactly 26mm thick in all places. That's why a furniture maker with lathes should be tasked to make one of these. Choose hard wood too. Balsa and other types used for hobby work should not be used.

The cylinder is the same diameter as the lens mount. It goes over (as seen in the picture the round depression when the lens mount flange is attached. The end which goes over the depression should be perfectly flat. This tool is used to flatten the lens mount. A lot of distortion takes place there. Also, when hammering the body, this part can get distorted too, so it should be beaten separate as well to line up the body.


What is not shown are two additional tools. A wooden mallet is needed for hammering the body. The other is a perfectly flat wooden surface where the body can be placed on whilst hammering it. I've used a marble block and a wooden block made of heavy tropical hardwood for this purpose.

The body shouldn't be beaten directly with a mallet. It's better to "sandwich" it between wooden blocks (with the 'brick' inserted) and beat on the wooden blocks instead.

So far, this tool has been used twice. In one FED, the body was so distorted that the lens mount couldn't be mounted straight. Any lens put on the mount would no longer focus. After beating this FED body with these tools, the mount got straightened up and lenses mounted properly.

Jay

 

[ZorkiKat]

From their size and position it looks like it's been dropped or sat on by a hippo while in the case, because the dents line up with the presstuds on the case.

The body shells of some FED and early Zorki were so soft that an often used camera would likely have a depression on where the thumb would normally be when the camera is held for use. The snapbutton studs can also depress the body.

One more thing, beating up the body will make the vulcanite crack. So brace yourself to having this replaced after hammering the body back to shape. IMO, beating is best when the body is naked 😀 😛

Jay

 

[reagan]

Great info, great photos, Jay. Very helpful to me too. I would think that 26mm I.D. would be something to be checked at first inspections on the early Zorkis and those FEDs with the soft.bodies ツ - especially if the camera is having winding or focusing problems. Again, thanks for taking the time to "hammer this all out" for us.

IMO, if one is an FSU tinkerer, this thread is well worth saving to Favorites.

 

[Xmas]

TimD et al

It is lower risk to use the camera and dolly in a push tool like a metal workers vice, a mallet was not in my mind.

You need more sjkill with a mallet.

Noel

 

[ZorkiKat]

Great info, great photos, Jay. Very helpful to me too. I would think that 26mm I.D. would be something to be checked at first inspections on the early Zorkis and those FEDs with the soft.bodies ツ - especially if the camera is having winding or focusing problems. Again, thanks for taking the time to "hammer this all out" for us.

IMO, if one is an FSU tinkerer, this thread is well worth saving to Favorites.

Thanks Reagan.

The 26mm value was figured from measuring various FED and early Zorki (those with really soft bodies and FED-style parts) bodies. There are some variations, like 26.5 or even one which was almost 27mm. Any beating would definitely change the body shell's specs and a new 26mm internal depth value would be imposed.

This is really a sort of total overhaul which would alter the camera's working specs- focus register included. But if one thinks about it, a camera with a distorted body has already lost its necessary measurements to begin with. Once the distorted body is restored with a new, altered depth, the next necessary step is to recalibrate the position of the lens mount relative to the
focal plane.

Older FED pose a problem in this regard due to non-standard lens and camera focus registers. In a distorted camera, the original value is almost impossible to determine. Only by testing the original non-LTM standard lens can its actual working register be known.

Jay

 

[ZorkiKat]

TimD et al

It is lower risk to use the camera and dolly in a push tool like a metal workers vice, a mallet was not in my mind.

You need more sjkill with a mallet.

Noel

Hi Noel

Pressing the same in a vise is a good idea. However I cannot see how the lens mount depression can be pressed correctly. Including just the cylinder on the other side will not allow the front side of the camera body shell be pressed flat.

Jay

 

[Xmas]

Jay

First I'm not that good with a hammer.

If you use two clamps to squeeze the inner part and outer part of the front face together sandwitching two bits of wood with the clamps, then the front plate will be flat. If it is at the wrong separation or is skew, I'd have to think.

I've only had minor problems to fix, like an accessory show that was lifted without removing the three screws.

I do have a rewind knob that has been pushed down about 1/16 of an inch, on a working body, so I'm living (shooting) with this. I'm not a magician like you.

Noel