blacklight
digital renegade
Hallo,
I have been shooting with DSLR, but lately, as I have learned more about rangefinders and classic film, I feel that it will suit the best for my shooting style. I have become very exited about it and my Bessa will be soon on its way I hope.
I have searched the net for guides, I have found much info also in this excellent forum, but still, I would like to hear your personal experience and advise, what film, developer to begin with as well as any other usefull suggestions.
Another topic I am interestred in is film speed and its pushing/pulling. I understand the reason for pushing the film - to get faster speed for lowlight, right? - but I have noticed, that many of you shoot e.g. 400 ISO film on 320 or even lower. What is the reason behind this? Is it because it is better to overexpose slightly the film? Is there any general rule, what films shoot at what ISO?
Thank you for all responses
I have been shooting with DSLR, but lately, as I have learned more about rangefinders and classic film, I feel that it will suit the best for my shooting style. I have become very exited about it and my Bessa will be soon on its way I hope.
I have searched the net for guides, I have found much info also in this excellent forum, but still, I would like to hear your personal experience and advise, what film, developer to begin with as well as any other usefull suggestions.
Another topic I am interestred in is film speed and its pushing/pulling. I understand the reason for pushing the film - to get faster speed for lowlight, right? - but I have noticed, that many of you shoot e.g. 400 ISO film on 320 or even lower. What is the reason behind this? Is it because it is better to overexpose slightly the film? Is there any general rule, what films shoot at what ISO?
Thank you for all responses
blacklight
digital renegade
One more thing - afaik, the general rule is: Expose for shadows, develop for highlights. Now, expose for shadows - its pretty obvious. But what about developing for highlights - how do you do it?
markinlondon
Elmar user
You co do worse than read the free photoschool modules at www.rogerandfrances.com. There are articles on film choice, film speeds and exposure.
In short we overexpose film for a few reasons:
1. to control contrast - overexposed film (with curtailed development) will give better shadow detail on contrasty days.
2. It changes the response of the film and we may prefer this look.
3. Incompetence - either we forgot to pack slow film or failed to set the meter correctly
Development of roll films in small tanks is done to a fixed time. Reducing that time will have the effect of reducing the highlight density. This is what is usually meant by "developing for the highlights".
I'd suggest you track down a basic photographic manual, the old Ilford manuals are quite informative if outdated regarding materials. Maybe your local library will have something useful.
After a little general reading pick a film that's easily available locally (ISO 400 for versatility) and a suitable developer. Use this combination until you have it nailed down. Then maybe try a different film or developer.
In short we overexpose film for a few reasons:
1. to control contrast - overexposed film (with curtailed development) will give better shadow detail on contrasty days.
2. It changes the response of the film and we may prefer this look.
3. Incompetence - either we forgot to pack slow film or failed to set the meter correctly
Development of roll films in small tanks is done to a fixed time. Reducing that time will have the effect of reducing the highlight density. This is what is usually meant by "developing for the highlights".
I'd suggest you track down a basic photographic manual, the old Ilford manuals are quite informative if outdated regarding materials. Maybe your local library will have something useful.
After a little general reading pick a film that's easily available locally (ISO 400 for versatility) and a suitable developer. Use this combination until you have it nailed down. Then maybe try a different film or developer.
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Not sure what to add but...Good luck!!
It'll be enjoyable once you get going but don't expect instant results like on a dslr. I'd recommend learning to meter correctly, and develop with recommended times. THEN try push-pull.
I'd go and buy "The 35mm handbook" there are a load of revisions out there, go for an old copy with the black cover. If anything it's worth it for a basic overview of film and the back page is a mid-grey card, for use metering 'correct exposure'
It'll be enjoyable once you get going but don't expect instant results like on a dslr. I'd recommend learning to meter correctly, and develop with recommended times. THEN try push-pull.
I'd go and buy "The 35mm handbook" there are a load of revisions out there, go for an old copy with the black cover. If anything it's worth it for a basic overview of film and the back page is a mid-grey card, for use metering 'correct exposure'
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Just because I like to pad my post total - I do think that you should avoid thinking about pushing and pullling for now. Shoot Tri-X at 400, develop in D76 or something simple and familiar to many folks with lots of information out there. Eventually, you might think "I'm not quite getting what I want," or "I want to branch out." Either way, it's only then that you should start thinking about more complex topics like pushing, pulling, EI, etc.
I'm not saying that you can't handle these topics right from the outset. Perhaps that is how you prefer to approach a process like this. But I know that I didn't really understand the Film Developing Cookbook until a year after I had been developing my own film.
allan
- I do think that you should avoid thinking about pushing and pullling for now. Shoot Tri-X at 400, develop in D76 or something simple and familiar to many folks with lots of information out there. Eventually, you might think "I'm not quite getting what I want," or "I want to branch out." Either way, it's only then that you should start thinking about more complex topics like pushing, pulling, EI, etc.I'm not saying that you can't handle these topics right from the outset. Perhaps that is how you prefer to approach a process like this. But I know that I didn't really understand the Film Developing Cookbook until a year after I had been developing my own film.
allan
emraphoto
Veteran
amen to kaiyens comments. pick a film and developer. stick with it for a while... try different times, conditions, exposure etc. then move on. shoot a cheap film (like rebranded efke 100 or something {on the bay as mitsubishi by maco about 1.50 a roll}) so you can shoot, shoot, shoot. moving from a dslr to a rangefinder and film can be a daunting experience. most rangefinders out there will ONLY do what you tell them to do. no auto exposure (i did say MOST rangefinders), focus etc. it takes many rolls of film to get a rythym going. scale (distance) focusing, film speeds, latitudes, developers camera meter (or hand held) behaviour and so on. it really becomes a craft...
and stick with the forum. the folk here have hundreds of yeards of experience combined and are only too happy to help.
look forward to some work and have fun!
cheers
john
and stick with the forum. the folk here have hundreds of yeards of experience combined and are only too happy to help.
look forward to some work and have fun!
cheers
john
emraphoto
Veteran
ps as far as general rules re; pushing/pulling... make up what works for you. every film has a certain lattitude but it's really more than that. some handheld meters/in camera meters have different characteristics. that's why you should shoot on the stated numbers first (iso/developer time/mix ratio) etc. so you get a starting point. simple things like agitation can dramatically effect overall results. make yourself a "darkroom book" and record all your steps.
lZr
L&M
And a little bit more about. Developing for highlights is related to paper development as far as I know.
After reading the 'Net, go to Kodak, read all pdf files about developing, stop, fix and also all pdf files about Tri-X. Repeat the same with Ilford and Fuji. All data about timing, push/pull and much more can be learnt there.
Not all films can be pushed reliable. Tri-X 400 is one you can do that fine.
My recomendation - start with slower developer. No rush
Good luck
After reading the 'Net, go to Kodak, read all pdf files about developing, stop, fix and also all pdf files about Tri-X. Repeat the same with Ilford and Fuji. All data about timing, push/pull and much more can be learnt there.
Not all films can be pushed reliable. Tri-X 400 is one you can do that fine.
My recomendation - start with slower developer. No rush
Good luck
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Pherdinand
the snow must go on
COming from a dslr, being used to clean and smooth images on the screen, keep this in mind:
1: With fast film you will get grain. Grain is not bad. Grain is good.
2: Don't panic about minor imperfections on the film (when you scan it - you will see speckles of dust, eventually very very small lint, or such.)
3. From my very recent beginner-film-developer experience: Buy a NEW reel for your tank. Don't waste your time and stress yourself with loading old stuff and making a mess.
good luck
1: With fast film you will get grain. Grain is not bad. Grain is good.
2: Don't panic about minor imperfections on the film (when you scan it - you will see speckles of dust, eventually very very small lint, or such.)
3. From my very recent beginner-film-developer experience: Buy a NEW reel for your tank. Don't waste your time and stress yourself with loading old stuff and making a mess.
good luck
350D_user
B+W film devotee
From a fellow DSLR user, be prepared to have a lot of missed shots. Wave bye-bye to the machine-gun capabilities the DSLR has, say hello to seeing the result in your head before it happens.blacklight said:
You'll slow down, that's inevitable. DSLRs are point-n-squirt cameras, compared to their film-based counterparts.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
lZr said:
Argh. I hate to throw in a contradictory post but...first, developing for highlights is not about paper development. it's about film development. Basically, to keep it simple, if you find that you are consistently getting blown highlights with your film, cut back on development time. If you want to know why, then we can go into that. But that's what that means to develop for the highlights.
And I _wouldn't_ get into all the PDF data sheets on film. Just buy some tXT and go shoot it.
allan
emraphoto
Veteran
double amen... pick a film and shoot it! lot's of it...
blacklight
digital renegade
Thanx for all input
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
350D-User, pm'd you about a collapsible lens you might want for the Leica Standard.
Back on topic, good luck with your getting into film blacklight, it's a lotta fun once you're settled into the routine
Back on topic, good luck with your getting into film blacklight, it's a lotta fun once you're settled into the routine